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Heaven and Hell
09-09-2014, 12:56 PM
Post: #11
(09-09-2014 09:28 AM)andre5112 Wrote:  
(09-09-2014 09:23 AM)Mider2009 Wrote:  Not all religions seek to control us, there are a few that are ok, judaism, voudou, but Christianity as an entity has been corrupted.

I searched a bit into each religion you mentioned. Tell me, what do you think is the source of Christianity's corruption?

The source I believe is a huge mistranslation of the bible.. then when the Pope/s came into power they found a great way to use faith as a way to use fear mongering to control their subjects.. I think the christian faith as a whole could have been a decent philosophy, but sadly it was turned into a religion and the bible being so mistranslated gave them the power to conform the "Word of God" as means to an end that they see fit, rather than a philosophy that is meant to help humans become better people ..
Just my opinion (and no I'm not christian)

In order to Hear, we must Listen; In order to See, we must Look; and in order to Understand we must Want To.
Nature is the teacher of art..
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09-09-2014, 04:11 PM
Post: #12
In Kabbalah the concept of Hell or Abyss is omitted, you simply reincarnate when you screw up.

That being said I hope the reincarnation part is true as I would love to duel Crowley
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09-09-2014, 05:36 PM (This post was last modified: 09-09-2014 05:43 PM by vinceguntr0n.)
Post: #13
(09-09-2014 08:43 AM)andre5112 Wrote:  Hello guys! I'm thinking about a thing since i began studying the occult, and i can't seem to find a proper answer. What do you guys think of Heaven and Hell? I mean, if i try to do some magic (any type) will i go directly to Hell? But then i think about something, in Goetia you can summon angels, which is isn't supposed to be a very bad thing, so Hell wouldn't apply to this situation. I don't know. Can you share you opinion with me?

If you use magic for the wrong purposes you will bind yourself closer to the lower realms, and when you die it will be harder for you to climb the latter.

(09-09-2014 09:28 AM)andre5112 Wrote:  
(09-09-2014 09:23 AM)Mider2009 Wrote:  Not all religions seek to control us, there are a few that are ok, judaism, voudou, but Christianity as an entity has been corrupted.

I searched a bit into each religion you mentioned. Tell me, what do you think is the source of Christianity's corruption?

There is corruption in every religion/culture. Most of the time the corruption stains the source of water, and when this happens one must know how to filter the filth that it contains.

Corruption comes from one source.

Man's desires.

Hopefully by this you will know every religion is a well that one can learn from, but you must understand what is dirty, and what is clean.

555+111=666 Illuminati confirmed. Surprised
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09-09-2014, 10:47 PM (This post was last modified: 09-09-2014 11:01 PM by andre5112.)
Post: #14
(09-09-2014 10:06 AM)astrohermetic Wrote:  I think I may have been misunderstood. I am not bashing religion by any means, my point is that once a belief system becomes institutionalized it becomes a social construct to maintain order in the population. This means that as a "religion" moves on from a shared cosmological system within a population, to a physical and monetary entity with it's own class of people (i.e. priests, etc.) and political and economic power its priorities shift. At this point, it is for the benefit of the ruling and priestly classes to maintain the current social structure and order of things. Here we see that more "religious" laws are created and older ones reworked in order to ensure the stability of the current social hierarchy. And yes, this happens even in Judaism. Read Leviticus, at the writing of this book there is already an established priestly class and the entire book focuses on moral and legal practices instead of beliefs. Again, I reiterate this is not a "bad" thing... it is necessary in order to maintain structure within society, but as a result many grey or blurry topics which do not adhere to a strict form of morality (i.e. magic) become outlawed.

The Goetia composes a chapter of the 15th C. grimoire known as the Lesser Key of Solomon and is entirely devoted to the evocation and command of the 72 spirits ensnared by King Solomon. The only mention of angels in all the text are in the depictions of the circle and the divine names (pertaining to the sefirot from Yesod to Keter) written around the circle to protect the conjurer from the summoned spirits. Even then only a hand-full of the surviving manuscripts depict the circle, but the text implies that they are to be written as such ("The circle of Salomon is to be made nine feet across, & the divine names are to be written around it, from Eheye to Levanah").

I understand now astrohermetic, yes i misunderstood you, but i get it now, thanks for sharing your knowledge! Smiling

(09-09-2014 12:56 PM)Rashnu Wrote:  
(09-09-2014 09:28 AM)andre5112 Wrote:  
(09-09-2014 09:23 AM)Mider2009 Wrote:  Not all religions seek to control us, there are a few that are ok, judaism, voudou, but Christianity as an entity has been corrupted.

I searched a bit into each religion you mentioned. Tell me, what do you think is the source of Christianity's corruption?

The source I believe is a huge mistranslation of the bible.. then when the Pope/s came into power they found a great way to use faith as a way to use fear mongering to control their subjects.. I think the christian faith as a whole could have been a decent philosophy, but sadly it was turned into a religion and the bible being so mistranslated gave them the power to conform the "Word of God" as means to an end that they see fit, rather than a philosophy that is meant to help humans become better people ..
Just my opinion (and no I'm not christian)

Thanks for explaining what you think Rashnu! I'm not a Christian too (actually im "nothing"). But i do believe in superior beings. Yes i agree in what you said. However, because of the mistranslated bible, probably most priests believe that they're doing the right thing by using the power they have as means to and end they see fit. They actually believe they're helping humans to become better people.

(09-09-2014 04:11 PM)Frater.Akenu Wrote:  In Kabbalah the concept of Hell or Abyss is omitted, you simply reincarnate when you screw up.

That being said I hope the reincarnation part is true as I would love to duel Crowley

I actually like that concept. No Hell, you screw up, you get to live here again. When you said duel Crowley, i actually imagined Harry Potter, seriously Tounge

(09-09-2014 05:36 PM)vinceguntr0n Wrote:  
(09-09-2014 08:43 AM)andre5112 Wrote:  Hello guys! I'm thinking about a thing since i began studying the occult, and i can't seem to find a proper answer. What do you guys think of Heaven and Hell? I mean, if i try to do some magic (any type) will i go directly to Hell? But then i think about something, in Goetia you can summon angels, which is isn't supposed to be a very bad thing, so Hell wouldn't apply to this situation. I don't know. Can you share you opinion with me?

If you use magic for the wrong purposes you will bind yourself closer to the lower realms, and when you die it will be harder for you to climb the latter.

(09-09-2014 09:28 AM)andre5112 Wrote:  
(09-09-2014 09:23 AM)Mider2009 Wrote:  Not all religions seek to control us, there are a few that are ok, judaism, voudou, but Christianity as an entity has been corrupted.

I searched a bit into each religion you mentioned. Tell me, what do you think is the source of Christianity's corruption?

There is corruption in every religion/culture. Most of the time the corruption stains the source of water, and when this happens one must know how to filter the filth that it contains.

Corruption comes from one source.

Man's desires.

Hopefully by this you will know every religion is a well that one can learn from, but you must understand what is dirty, and what is clean.

Hello Vincengutr0n! What do you mean by getting closer to the Lower Realms? I agree with you, man's desires probably are the main source of corruption (we want money, material things). Not saying that kind of desires are bad, it's our nature.
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09-10-2014, 05:30 AM
Post: #15
I'd say earth is a lower realm. More of the five senses here are utilized en masse than what most find as unbelievable.

I agree man is the corrupting tool. Whether by his/her own mind and actions or influence is debatable. I'm inclined mans core survival instincts make them selfish.utilizing slaves or servants and allies for personal power and wealth and continued place holding in society is usually sought after. King to so to some lineage. Head priest to sin to son lineage. Women usually get the lesser role but they too in their social standings try to be head bitch so to speak. Kinda changes in a matriarchal society but I'm betting close to patriarchal skemetics.

Religion is a good tool to manipulate others. Most can't or don't want to disprove their particular belief. And some religions use guilt, fear, and threats therof to enforce the belief on "unbelievers or sinners."

This is where I agree with satanistic beliefs more in being your own center of belief and power. I personally still can't perceive entities as I call things or the effects of magic alone. I'm firmly rooted in the five senses. The rest is foreign and I fumble with it greatly.

Perhaps that's where faith in what you can't hear see touch smell taste or feel comes into play.
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09-10-2014, 07:43 AM
Post: #16
(09-09-2014 09:28 AM)andre5112 Wrote:  
(09-09-2014 09:23 AM)Mider2009 Wrote:  Not all religions seek to control us, there are a few that are ok, judaism, voudou, but Christianity as an entity has been corrupted.

I searched a bit into each religion you mentioned. Tell me, what do you think is the source of Christianity's corruption?

St-Paul
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09-10-2014, 08:05 AM (This post was last modified: 09-10-2014 08:06 AM by andre5112.)
Post: #17
(09-10-2014 05:30 AM)Keighn Wrote:  I'd say earth is a lower realm. More of the five senses here are utilized en masse than what most find as unbelievable.

I agree man is the corrupting tool. Whether by his/her own mind and actions or influence is debatable. I'm inclined mans core survival instincts make them selfish.utilizing slaves or servants and allies for personal power and wealth and continued place holding in society is usually sought after. King to so to some lineage. Head priest to sin to son lineage. Women usually get the lesser role but they too in their social standings try to be head bitch so to speak. Kinda changes in a matriarchal society but I'm betting close to patriarchal skemetics.

Religion is a good tool to manipulate others. Most can't or don't want to disprove their particular belief. And some religions use guilt, fear, and threats therof to enforce the belief on "unbelievers or sinners."

This is where I agree with satanistic beliefs more in being your own center of belief and power. I personally still can't perceive entities as I call things or the effects of magic alone. I'm firmly rooted in the five senses. The rest is foreign and I fumble with it greatly.

Perhaps that's where faith in what you can't hear see touch smell taste or feel comes into play.

I agree with what you said, and from the other's users answers im beginning to believe indeed that Hell is a way used to enforce devotion to Christianity.
Also, i researched a bit into Satanism, and Satanism simbolizes freedom. Im not Satanic, but i like freedom, so i agree with that principle.

(09-10-2014 07:43 AM)Haziel Wrote:  
(09-09-2014 09:28 AM)andre5112 Wrote:  
(09-09-2014 09:23 AM)Mider2009 Wrote:  Not all religions seek to control us, there are a few that are ok, judaism, voudou, but Christianity as an entity has been corrupted.

I searched a bit into each religion you mentioned. Tell me, what do you think is the source of Christianity's corruption?

St-Paul

If you don't mind can you please explain what do you mean by that?
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09-10-2014, 08:12 AM
Post: #18
G-D wants us to be "Pure". Just like how I only want a complete virgin for my wife that's what Jesus wants from his bride ( The Church(People that believe in him)). So that means that we should STAY AWAY from any spiritual force that's not Jesus. Yes that does include contacting angels. You're still divining if you do and that's a big NO. The Bible says only Jesus is the way. Not other angels or spirits or human. Only Jesus. If you do this you will be in G-D's people. Meaning you will receive eternal blessings. Better than any current blessing we get.

Yes I know I look stupid saying that since I practice magick but its my birthright. G-D made me to temp, to guide, to bless, to preach. All this is done as a Holy Plan. The plan of G-D. I'm his iron rod of wrath. I sin because I know why I was made and that is to embrace the dark side without leaving the office of Divinity.
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09-10-2014, 08:29 AM
Post: #19
(09-10-2014 08:12 AM)Leviathan Wrote:  G-D wants us to be "Pure". Just like how I only want a complete virgin for my wife that's what Jesus wants from his bride ( The Church(People that believe in him)). So that means that we should STAY AWAY from any spiritual force that's not Jesus. Yes that does include contacting angels. You're still divining if you do and that's a big NO. The Bible says only Jesus is the way. Not other angels or spirits or human. Only Jesus. If you do this you will be in G-D's people. Meaning you will receive eternal blessings. Better than any current blessing we get.

Yes I know I look stupid saying that since I practice magick but its my birthright. G-D made me to temp, to guide, to bless, to preach. All this is done as a Holy Plan. The plan of G-D. I'm his iron rod of wrath. I sin because I know why I was made and that is to embrace the dark side without leaving the office of Divinity.
Levi.. you read the bible.. but he's quoted in the kuran more than any other prophet, are you sure jesus wanted a virgin?.. mary magdalen?... she wasnt a virgin, far from it

In order to Hear, we must Listen; In order to See, we must Look; and in order to Understand we must Want To.
Nature is the teacher of art..
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09-10-2014, 08:42 AM (This post was last modified: 09-10-2014 08:43 AM by Leviathan.)
Post: #20
Wow you brought up a good point... Still Jesus said that he surrounded himself with sinners in order to save them. Still if I am from the lineage of Jesus than that just proves that G-D's Love is wide and big.
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