Post Reply 
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
INCEST!!!
12-01-2017, 09:04 PM (This post was last modified: 12-01-2017 09:10 PM by Ontical.)
Post: #11
Thanks for all of your replies- I will get back to you all individually soon.

I need to make a slight correction to my OP:

Ontical Wrote:Mice and rats are well documented as being incestuous and the threat of extinction of many species may lead them to inbreeding. Why? It diversifies the gene pool.

Inaccurate. It leads to anomalies which can improve chances of survival - while inbreeding avoidance is only a hypothesis (not falsified or part of tentative theory/fact) in natural sciences, we can still only say that in certain environments, abnormalities may have advantages, but inbreeding depression may result in less fitness and may result in extinction - however, if the genes mix heterozygotically then the effects of inbreeding depression may be reversed.

I want to add that taboos can only be cultural and not natural: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taboo?wprov=sfti1

Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
12-02-2017, 02:08 AM
Post: #12
Inbreeding nobility were infamous for their sickly individuals and deformed forms. I do not think that there needs more to be said about it. Fucking your relatives will weaken the bloodline sooner or later and the health of society is important. Instead of focusing of producing inferior human platforms, we should not let every vice run rampant and to learn some discipline in order to produce virtue.

If you have any questions or want to share your own experiences, I'm always interested in hearing them out. Feel free to PM me.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
12-02-2017, 06:58 AM
Post: #13
(11-30-2017 12:30 PM)Calicifer Wrote:  There is no such need and such act is inherently disgusting. This disgust is genetical.

I genuinely can't be arsed to read and reply to your whole post, as even skimming it I noticed it was full of fallacies as well as opinions I disagree on.

But let me nitpick this particular point.

Disgust can never be inherent, it is one of the most subjective reactions that can be evoked.

As for it being genetical, I'm forced to assume that comment was made in jest as to posit such a thing genuinely would be laughable and foolish beyond comprehension.

[Image: z3bJrZD.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
12-02-2017, 09:40 AM (This post was last modified: 12-02-2017 09:58 AM by Calicifer.)
Post: #14
Disgust is born and programmed us on genetic level. For example, not picking up dead's man's clothes, not eating rotten meat. We were never socially conditioned not to eat rotting animals, but we all come to associate smell of rotting meat with extreme levels of disgust. This is genetical programming of our behavior. An individual might not understand why eating rotten or uncooked food might be bad, but body does and it warns us.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/humanbody/m...gust.shtml

People do find incest to be universally disgusting. Whatever it is born out of culture or genes is up to question, but its widespread nature do indicate there being a very good reason for it to be widespread.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/ani...lem-incest


The issue is when you had lost even the basic guiding stones in your life, you cannot make more advanced judgements. You cannot travel with broken navigational tools and in a same way you cannot reason if foundation is wrong. This new wave of pushing incest is just another symptom of degrading society. Rotten idiots think just about themselves and their perverse pleasures which in their hedonism will surely destroy western world anywhere where they will be allowed to prosper and when civilization falls, it usually do not recover any more at all without some God gifted boon.


You are lucky that the world is not run by people like me for such micro cultures like Lou was in, probably would end up being exterminated with fire. I would burn such people to the ground for their sins are unforgivable in my eyes. Not because of what they do among themselves, but what kind of environment they create for others. Abandoning the basic principles of humanity, abusing their own children, perverting them. Breeding filth into this world. We all have responsibility in this world to give our children the best bodies which we can practically generate with our flawed vessels. A human life is worthless, a body is just a bag of meat. It is the soul which comes to inhibit said body is worth something and we are responsible to provide the best possible chance for that soul to do that it desires to. In my eyes, it could had been easily me. Born into an environment of sin and lies. When that chance I would have to escape it? Disregard for our genetic purity is the sin for which a lot of us shall pay in potential future when we will reincarnate back into this realm.

If you have any questions or want to share your own experiences, I'm always interested in hearing them out. Feel free to PM me.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
12-02-2017, 10:17 AM
Post: #15
It's just a selfish thing to potentially bring an innocent child into this world only to doom them to a lifetime of handicap and ridicule. The farther apart on the tree the two relatives are, the less likely it is that inbreeding will result. First cousins have about as much chance of mutation in offspring as a woman who gives birth at over 40 years old. I had that AND my mom still heavily drinking while pregnant with me yet somehow the only thing resulting was a dark sense of humor lmao. Still, though, a giant 50-caliber bullet was dodged there, so repeating said process is not worth gambling on raising a person with FAS and god-knows-what-else (which WILL get expensive as hell). It's a sad, tragic thing to witness. Siblings and parents- that gets to where incest is dangerous in less than one generation where it would likely take more than one for cousins. A world with too many cousin babies running around will end up eventually doing that anyway.

Inbreeding defects don't only result from mutation, though. It also results from the reinforcement of bad genes. Everyone on earth has at least some alleles in their DNA that are "the short end of the genetics stick". This is why a family history of cancer is a major factor in whether you're at risk yourself, and male-pattern baldness tends to run in families. Luckily, much more of these POS-alleles are recessive than we're thankful for at times. Since Darwinism at least did us a favor in that most of the people with really heavy genetic fuck-ups didn't live long enough to breed for most of history, it's unlikely that person that fathers/mothers your children will have those same POS alleles too unless your DNA is really similar. (Read: genetically related) Just like how a quick punnet square will reveal that a blue-eyed person (automatically double recessive) and a homozygous brown-eyed person (forever doomed by their parents to a life of the most boring eye color ever as a double dominant) would make all brown-eyed kids, that blue-eyed allele is now too diluted to manifest in the person as a phenotype. Now replace "Blue eyes" with "Joe claps his hands and shits his pants in a wheelchair at 30" and "Brown eyes" with "Joe can live a normal, healthy life".

The Royal House of Habsburg is a good example: http://scienceblogs.com/notrocketscience...of-kings/. They're the inventors of the Habsburg Lip deformity.



THE SOLUTION:There's a very simple, straightforward one that would let people incest all they want without being a dick to the rest of humanity: Either the man gets a vasectomy or the woman gets a tubal litigation. That way, if you still want to have kids there's still the option of donor sperm/eggs for the other half of the Penis + Vagina = Annoying Baby equation. Normal temporary contraception still has its flaws should you mess it up, so that's not good enough. If you two really love each other that much, then it should be no problem. If not, that should tell you something. If you can't afford the procedure, there are still tons of programs out there willing to hook you up with the snippy-snips for little to no cost. This isn't Game of Thrones, people, and (big scary shock, le gasp!) not Pornhub either.

There is one real moral in this world when you think about it, and it's called "Don't Be A Dick".
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
12-02-2017, 10:43 AM (This post was last modified: 12-02-2017 10:55 AM by Calicifer.)
Post: #16
You overestimate humanity. If you can handle it, it does not mean that significant part of others can.

https://robertlindsay.wordpress.com/2016...ng-adults/


Poor parenting and lack of care is a reason of why certain nations are living in the muck. Like USA, it cannot rear children anymore. Americans cannot be bothered to take care of their children, to love them and to guide them. This is why USA is likely to die out within generation now as people who are inherenting the power overall are of a lot lower quality than they were before. When entire system malfunctions and goes to shit at such level. Everything goes to shit. Cops get more corrupted. Kids get more sickly. Longer bills in hospitals. Poorer performance in school and in university, thus drop in nations IQ level. Population's intelligence drops, politics goes to shit. As moral integrity drops, USA presidents can be wanted criminals. It won't matter anymore. Behavior from high to low will change for the worst to such degree that nobody will even comprehend why they suddenly ended up living in misery. Like Arab nations, they are the den of sin and their worthless nations are a proof of that. In the past we needed just to put our mighty boot down and nation after nation collapsed by its own rot and corruption under our crusade.


Remember, a person who has certain qualities and are well reared will unlikely struggle in life. My sister and I are perfect examples of that. I renounced my family on unconscious basis very early on. I started on my own to study mathetmatics in school much to ridicule of others. I started trying in life even if nobody had ever been there for me. I looked inspirations in others and I built myself. Even with all my faults, I'm still a master studen wtih engineering and informatics diplomas, my intellect due to struggle in university grew to such level that I'm quick to adapt and quick to learn. I will not perish, for this I'm certain. My sister on the other hand is lost. She does not know that she does. She wanted to escape home, to start their own life. Without a proper guidance and advise she wasted an opportunity to apply for art academy and apply at least this talent of hers to some potential use. Now she is working shitty, entry jobs, paying for rent and living on cents. Such people as her are not productive nor has inner capability to achieve anything in life. Thus, she will remain as unproductive and incapable of creating value to society. Multiply it by thousands of such scenarios where children were not raised properly. This ends up in countless individuals who are fighting their entire lifes to get their lives back on track. Surrounded by natural desires like to find love, but being inherently unlovable, they surround themselves with people who are inherently worthless. Thus they fight, they use one another. They betray and hurt each other. A person is put in a state of constant unhapiness and need. Without said need and happiness being found. Without damage being allowed to heal and in time healing itself, a person simply cannot raise its own children anymore. A person who cannot love itself, cannot truly love its own children.


Though, I'm actually surprised by human spirit. Where I compare myself with Gods, humanity for some reason, craves to compare itself with animals. Instead of having to debate of how better we should live and lead our lives, we have to debate why bestiality is publicly forbidden. There is one thing when it affects others like incest. If children could know that is best for them, people would have a certain case, but now, there simply isn't. Where people like me seek to improve myself every day, to overcome my inherent weaknesses and to see world prosper, most of humanity seem to hell bent in breaking every wall, every restriction in the name of hedonism. If strongmen will not raise again to enforce moral norms, I forsee a very grim future for our species indeed.

If you have any questions or want to share your own experiences, I'm always interested in hearing them out. Feel free to PM me.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
12-02-2017, 10:06 PM (This post was last modified: 12-02-2017 10:06 PM by Wylandriah91.)
Post: #17
I've met a brother and sister who I'm fairly sure were very much in love with each other, they lived a fairly solitary lifestyle in a caravan and gave off serious couple vibes, and I have no problem with that, I think it's very sweet, in an admittedly strange way.
However, bringing a child into that would just be a step over my aporoval line I'm afraid. It may be a social taboo these days, but imo that came about due to us understanding the risks of bearing children with close relatives.
So in my opinion, love can't be helped. Sex? Humans will always want to rub their genitals all over anything taboo and should be allowed to in the case of consenting adults. I mean if you've got a freaky sister, go for it, but kids shouldn't ever be brought into it imo, either as the subject or the product. Growing up human is hard enough without the extra layers of wierdness involved :/

A pebble at the source of the Nile and all the world is changed.
Precision beats power, and timing beats speed.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
12-03-2017, 02:12 AM (This post was last modified: 12-03-2017 07:40 PM by Ontical.)
Post: #18
(11-29-2017 10:49 PM)SkullTraill Wrote:  This is an interesting post. I made a thread similar to this at one point, but it was more about age of consent and age differences.

I'll read this fully and reply this weekend, but overall I think incest between siblings is somewhat more of a natural taboo than a cultural one.

Taboos are by their very definition, cultural. If we are talking about something natural in terms of incest being impossible by necessity, then the term we use is inbreeding avoidance which as we can see, is not a proven or accepted theory and only at the level of a hypothesis in the naturalist sciences.

A taboo can still be universal, which is what makes incest taboo so interesting. It is nothing more than a cultural norm which appears natural, but it has no proven basis as inevitable.

Check out this paper: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/12...69/related which reviews the effect on enviornments and finches (Darwin’s finches).


Quote:While still acceptable in the face of extinction,

It would only be tolerated, not accepted. Nobody would like doing it, they would do it out of some categorical imperative. Duty would be bound to the rule. Mind you, I don't want to make the claim that humans would revert to inbreeding to save the species, it's just as possible that the incest taboo could very well lead to the end of the human race if you wanted to take it to the most extreme outcome.

Quote:imo, we as humans are about as far away from extinction as we have ever been and therefore the ratio of genetic abomination for sibling incest isn't worth it. As for more distant relatives however, I agree it's pretty much entirely a cultural taboo.

As I mentioned above, there is no proven theory for inbreeding avoidance and all incest taboo is cultural - this doesn't mean it has no breadth, however.

The point of raising the prohibition of incest is to challenge pressupositions about what 'natural' and 'cultural' mean to us. Culture can predominate over nature. It highlights the 'magic trick of metaphysics' which is we take two oppositions and privilege one over the other.

(11-29-2017 11:16 PM)niburulou Wrote:  for me incest was a normal thing. it was me and a lot of kids in my surrounding were part of it as well.
when i got older, i noticed some things didnt sit with me well i realised that incest is not a normal thing. and boy did it go wrong with me then. everything blocked, i felt dirty and weird, etc. so i started healing what before that never was an issue.

during that period i also did a lot of research on the abrahamic religions and found out that in islam it is said that the first people had kids, several twins. these twins were not allowed to have sex with their twin but with the others was ok. after a while when there were enough people this mingling with siblings got forbidden too.

so from my personal experiences and research i would say incest taboo is very much a cultural one.

That's quite fucked up! Thanks for sharing and all. There's also examples of incest in the Old Testament, Lot and his Daughters - which was the very first thing i read in the Bible...ever...I thought 'I will unlock the secrets to the universe and reach the truth of this book all the way from God himself' and then immediately questioned if that was possible given my first, random selection of text!

I guess my point in my post is to say that abuse is breaking a rule in cultural terms - an honourable man can only be honourable if they act in ways which conform with expectations in the form of rules.

Quote:now in my experience my relation with my dad was a loving one and the incest part was just an expression of that. ( ill exclude having to be silent about it and me being jealous of my mother and lots of other weird feelings, since that has more to do with the culture) i can however though, imagine that incest is done in a different setting where there isnt much love involved and i tend to believe that it then becomes a totally different matter. although if a person is naturally inclined to be, for example, more sadistic and uses incest as a tool for that, it still stems from a natural inclination. just an even less accepted one then just having sex with family.

Without sounding like I fully understand you, I can say that I know of a friend of a friend who had a similar upbringing and had exactly the same kind of ambivalent feelings - although the reason she took part in such acts was because she felt she was protecting her mother, like she could give her a rest.

Quote:my conclusion overall is that nature is truly 'evil' and culture tries to ignore that or put punishment on the less lovely dovely parts of it. and the more one can accept these 'evil' parts in themselves ( since they are a part of human nature) the more whole one becomes. now what you do with the acceptance is what makes a human a person. if that makes any sense.

My argument isn't that incest is actually the natural way either, I have no evidence for that. All I can say is that incest isn't impossible in nature and in certain situations, it can arise. The same can be said about culture, incest can be a cultural imperative too - there are tribes across the world that practice incest as part of their culture. My OP is showing how nature and culture can blend where we can hardly tell the difference, to the point where it seems counter-intuitive. We develop as subject in certain cultures and environments and this can lead to abuse too. Nature is indifferent - taboos aren't in nature at all, as it is beyond good and evil - good and evil only exist to humans. There are certain instincts that can get out of control, but we can use cultures to override and regulate them. Norms are things like patriarchy and general male domination, are all cultural norms that have been bred into us for generations - they manifest in violent forms, but they are not entirely all to do with nature.

One thing that is true, is that women were one of the first forms of exchange of gifts and incest taboo was merely a way to express the diffference between 'rich and poor' food (see Nick land: fanged Noumena Kant, capital and the Prohibition of Incest - like a farmer will not eat the cream of his crop, he will save it and sell it - this seems to be the dependent origination of incest taboo and patriarchy. As this is such an old practice, it will have been performed to the point where women are truly sublimated and cancelled simultaneously - seen as great, yet second class to men.

(11-30-2017 07:55 AM)Weirdo Wrote:  I think one of the main problems with the entire topic is, that people can't really focus on it in an objective way, because everybody got family.

Okay, well that's what this type of question brings out - how do you, what seems to be in an instinctive way, 'know' one should not, or cannot, have sexual relations with ones mother, father, sister, or brother, cousin, grand children, auntie, uncle etc? The boundary would have to be taught to you from an early age, say when a child expresses themselves in a way where they might ask their parent or sister to marry them (of course, the child is not in any way aware of the sexual baggage) and then the prohibition is put in place. If there was no one around to place that restriction in place, what would unfold? How can we be sure that 'instincts' are always 'natural'?

Quote:I wonder what future generations will think of it. What if one day there's a new group of "robot" people, or completely artificially generated humans who literally don't have a family? I wonder what such people would think of the topic.

Interesting question - one of the consequences of the prohibition of incest is when we place it in the frame of capitalist expansion - liberalism seems to have a radical exogamy with assumes there is the 'truly other' in which capital can perform exchanges with, but capital expansion works by making everything the same, it assimilates differences into the ironic and this is where liberalism truly does not support differences and otherness, as capital can't survive without eliminating radical alterity.

Family is after all, another social consruct. But it seems incest taboo starts wih exchange (markets) and gifts, which override the construct of the family entirely.

Quote:Very nice read though, especially the OP and also niburulou's answer. Not sure if Arkadius-Rash posted in the correct topic. I don't think incest is about dating older people (or maybe I just don't know what incest is at all??)

Well incest taboo is always about making sure we move and expand towards alterity (the other), but there's a hypocritical aporia (an impassible point in the logic) where actually, there is a limit of differences based on preferences - in many ways, having sex with older people, or with people of a very different culture to our own is where the prohibition of incest reaches it limit and is equally frowned upon - incest taboo actually states through cultural articulation that we should go for the other, as long as they are pretty much the same as us.

(11-30-2017 12:30 PM)Calicifer Wrote:  [font=Verdana][align=justify]Oh boy, you do walk in the darkness. I struggle to comprehend why one would want to fuck its own mother or to be fucked by father. For us it is incomprehensible. It is not a cultural construct which overwrites genetical need.

I didn't say it was inevitable in nature, I said it isn't impossible.

Quote:This disgust is genetical.

Disgust requires a subjective response and in some cultures, incest isn't impossible as much as it isn't impossible in nature. Disgust can't be part of genetics, there is no 'disgust gene'.

I have already mentioned in an earlier reply in this post how inbreeding avoidance is but a hypothesis and not a proven theory. Humans inbreed dogs and cats, humans can inbreed in a cultural way, for instance if they were taught to behave in such a way from a young age, and fruit flies do it all the time! This means value judgements are part of incest prohibition or advocation - meaning one can choose. Genetics can not be chosen.

The OP addresses how we immediately rush to the type of answer you gave here out of our own disgust and abjection - but incest taboo is cultural.

Quote:Fucking your family on genetical level means weak and sickly children being born, unfit for natural selection.

Correct, but it also generates anomalies - check out this paper: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14761069 The founding finches of Darwinian evolutionary theory adapted because they had inbred. Once they can breed exogamistically - the effects of inbreeding depression are reversed. In certain environments genetic anomalies may be advantageous in the environment.

Quote:Another issue is spiritual. By removing bonds between mother and son, daughter and the father, one removes sanctity of the family. The unit becomes rather exchange of services and needs.

Actually it turns out that incest prohibition formed the basis of market exchange and women (apart from food) became the first 'commodities' - they were gifts to be given, 'rich food' for other wealthy buyers. So with or without incest taboo, hyperagamy can still be the intention of the family in the modern age, it's still just a 'exchange of services' although we are not talking about needs here - we are talking about desires.

Quote:Fulfilment of urges, often in abusive way of the stronger, father using ones who do not know any better and ideolise their parents into an corrosive relationships.

So do you mean that we have to teach incest prohibition in order to show how it's wrong? Wink That means it is not 'genetical'.

Quote:Aspiration and jealously is misguided. It is merely a child trying to find its worth and looking for that makes a proper partner. It also corrodes fundamental bonds of love among people. As their relationship becomes material based, there is little outside of it that anymore bonds the family together. An individual which should seek the best for their child, forsakes them and pushes them towards dark path which never ends well.

What is available to achieve is entirely subject to the culture they are in, what desires they aquire and seek (jouissance).

Quote:In the end, we are not merely animals and we should not compare ourselves to them.

We are social animals and Robert Sapolsky clearly shows how baboons and monkeys are caable of making social acts or norms - in short, cultures.

We are both human and animal. We can create forms of life (cultures) that both prohibit, apologise and advocate or apologise for incest and inbreeding. Wylandriah91 gives a good a good example of such ways a convention can be formed within certain limits. How is it sweet, in what way?

Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
12-04-2017, 10:50 AM (This post was last modified: 12-04-2017 10:52 AM by Calicifer.)
Post: #19
If taboo is universal, then it is not really a taboo any more. It is not something born out of culture like Victorian age manners and other nonsense, but something born out of genetics. In this case, inbreeding is disgusting on genetical level. You people might wish to downplay this fact, but majority of people get shivers down their spines when they see inbreeding. Said family becomes social outcasts and are alienated. Disgust that runs through suggested sexual relationship between son or mother and then between son and sister when they can realize what they are doing is universal. All cultures across the globe reacts similarly and no, I won't accept of some worthless tribe of savages as an example. Exceptions happen in ever statistical analysis when it gets big enough.


Quote:It would only be tolerated, not accepted. Nobody would like doing it, they would do it out of some categorical imperative. Duty would be bound to the rule. Mind you, I don't want to make the claim that humans would revert to inbreeding to save the species, it's just as possible that the incest taboo could very well lead to the end of the human race if you wanted to take it to the most extreme outcome.


Duty? There is no duty, no desire, no need for such sex. A family will not engage in sexual relationship with each other even if being unable to fuck with anyone for years. Sex is a minor emotion in ability to contain it and such scenarios are next to impossible. There was is no known accident when that would happen on a large scale. People are fucking even when there are bullets flying over heads. This is why they are dying and failing in a first place.


Furthermore, inbreeding is a very iffy question. Don't fuck your family members and vast majority of issues goes away. Inbreeding is remarkably quick to decline when fuck list starts going away from your mom.



Quote:My argument isn't that incest is actually the natural way either, I have no evidence for that. All I can say is that incest isn't impossible in nature and in certain situations, it can arise. The same can be said about culture, incest can be a cultural imperative too - there are tribes across the world that practice incest as part of their culture. My OP is showing how nature and culture can blend where we can hardly tell the difference, to the point where it seems counter-intuitive. We develop as subject in certain cultures and environments and this can lead to abuse too. Nature is indifferent - taboos aren't in nature at all, as it is beyond good and evil - good and evil only exist to humans. There are certain instincts that can get out of control, but we can use cultures to override and regulate them. Norms are things like patriarchy and general male domination, are all cultural norms that have been bred into us for generations - they manifest in violent forms, but they are not entirely all to do with nature.


Except inbreeding is obviously programmed into us as wrong from genetic level.

Genetic devation is always present in order to keep gene variety. Like gays, they are genetically useful and are present in nature. Inbreeding is also a branch of sub species of humans.

It is evil in a lot of senses. Abuse of parenthood. A child and teenager do not know that is best for him. Do not be so foolish as to treat 11 year girl as a grown woman. It is social and spiritual suicide. Most damning at all is it is an utter evil on genetical level. We might pretend that as long as there are no babies...but such things are just naive thinking. Even in this day and age, there are tons of "ups" happening all over the place. Bringing even one life is a cardinal sin which cannot be allowed to stand.


The only place for ambiguity here is when inbreeding starts to become tolerable. We all are related in a way. Personally, I stop having internal disgust at distant lines of my family. I would not imagine having romantic relationships of anyone who are direct descendent of my bloodline. That is, childs coming from grandmother or grandfather. Only first cousins is where I can start tolerating such relationship, but it also have that air of wrongness around them.


Quote:Disgust requires a subjective response and in some cultures, incest isn't impossible as much as it isn't impossible in nature. Disgust can't be part of genetics, there is no 'disgust gene'.

I have already mentioned in an earlier reply in this post how inbreeding avoidance is but a hypothesis and not a proven theory. Humans inbreed dogs and cats, humans can inbreed in a cultural way, for instance if they were taught to behave in such a way from a young age, and fruit flies do it all the time! This means value judgements are part of incest prohibition or advocation - meaning one can choose. Genetics can not be chosen.

The OP addresses how we immediately rush to the type of answer you gave here out of our own disgust and abjection - but incest taboo is cultural.


We cannot figure out why we sleep. Science has no idea that its most bleeding edge discoveries sometimes are common knowledge since the stone age. How genetics work exactly is a mystery. There is no gene for anything really. It is a combination of genes which creates our bodies as they are. Said genes changes according to what we do, what we chose to believe in. They also re-align themselves during our lives and children are born not out of some static construct, but dynamic history record of our lives. I'm fine example of his how I actively overwrite my genome myself. That it, I force it to re-align itself according to my needs, giving me perfect and sometimes inhuman performance. Like feeling no hunger for days, overriding body's own steroid production in entire orders of magnitude or having passive changes like ever changing range of products which I consume or general energy levels. A human body is the most advanced machinery on the planet. We can outrun horses. We can settle houses in the depths of Baltic Ocean and without any gear, just dive in and out to our underwater houses causally. We can survive sub zero temperatures with minimal clothing. I just recently spent an hour standing and walking for about an hour at night in -5 C without ever getting as far as a shiver. Our adaptability and universality is second to none and while we might not have an excessively pronounced traits of any creature. We outperform them all in their own habitats by utilizing one of our countless strengths. Human potential is truly mind boggling and thus genes are of little importance. As long as a human is pure, that is, without genetic defects then it is just a blank slate on which you can choose what to write. How sexually active it is. How its mind works. Which is his inherent strengths and talents. You are merely confusing universality of our genome as a cultural taboo. Something to be learned. No, it is not. We are orders of magnitude are superior to animals since where animals are slaves to their genome, we are merely are "advised" by it on how to behave. It can be changed into countless forms and overcoming what it says is "wrong" is a very basic of our mastery of human nature. It is same thing. A danger, when a normal person would be scared and inclined to run due to fear, a genetic response to danger, it can be relatively easily reshaped into the opposite. Fearless fanatizm. A person can be made to just laugh in a face of fear and charge it with abandonment. Some of us had done it and there are countless forms to do it. I prefer Nazi SS divisions as a perfect example, but here is another one.






Our genes are here to merely advise us. All of it can be changed, but that does not make them a taboo. Everything that was imprinted in our genome is here for a bloody damn good reason.


Incest is born out of genetics. Like avoidance of rotten meat, disposing of one's dead. People might not realize it why, but our bodies do and thus it generates a sense of wrongness in us. Incest is shun away universally. It is not something which is chosen arbitrary. Civilization cannot survive with incest running rampant. In fact, civilizations and dynasties who explored it, went extinct due to it or were suppressed to the point of irrelevance. The sheer destruction which it creates, results that humanity had evolved on a genetical level a comprehension. A taboo is a social construct which is born out of culture. Culture is something which society agrees as a proper way of behaving. For example, wearing clothes. On the other hand, a taboo do not involves such things as eating your dead, human flesh, murdering each other and similar. Such things are deeply implemented into humanity and they are not tied to culture.



Quote:Actually it turns out that incest prohibition formed the basis of market exchange and women (apart from food) became the first 'commodities' - they were gifts to be given, 'rich food' for other wealthy buyers. So with or without incest taboo, hyperagamy can still be the intention of the family in the modern age, it's still just a 'exchange of services' although we are not talking about needs here - we are talking about desires.


Incest prohibition was made, because a civilization did not wanted to collapse upon itself after 50 years of existing. Inbreeding is not about controlling women. It is universally applied to men and women alike. It can be said that it is a law to control an exchange of men in a same way. To force the buyers to buy more. Thus, women gaining greater inherent worth and thus screwing us, men, again!


Quote:So do you mean that we have to teach incest prohibition in order to show how it's wrong? Wink That means it is not 'genetical'.


An urge or desire is not based on genetics. We are programmed only very vaguely. This is why sometimes a man start seeking other men or women other women since these people do not look for the gender as much as inherent qualities. Though, I do not know how big of the part it makes.


Our desires are remarkably flexible and often are loosely based on realities or that is good. They often go against the intellect and instincts. Often a desire is formed due to misjudged and misguided reasoning. Of longing for something else and individual forms a desire which in its own eyes, is bound to give it. Proper parenting would never see such desires manifesting. We do see inbreeding as inherently wrong, though, this wrongness can be overwritten by our culture. Culture can be overwritten by our spirit. Or in other words:
genes < upbringing/influences < church/religion.


A real desire to fuck your own mum is not something which crosses minds of majority of people and we are generations who are remarkably idiotic and poor at raising our children. A lot of people in western world just completely given up on rearing their children at all.


Quote:What is available to achieve is entirely subject to the culture they are in, what desires they aquire and seek (jouissance).


False. What a person desires is not based on a culture, but on the soul which had possessed the body. If said soul has no strong tendencies, it will not have strong direction. Children usually show a talent and interest at random and can get quite stuck on it. Human societies should serve as a great example. Proffessions and paths are not sought due to their popularity. This forms only minority of influences. Wage, propaganda, pressure, these things never can change the person. If a person is born poet, no drill sergeant in existence will make a soldier out of him. If parents deemed their child as a good boy who will one day become a priest, often such pressures result in a lot of drama and failure. A human being is not a vessel which can be influenced freely. Yes, majority of us lack strong spirit, but earthly influences fall short when spirit says its word.


Quote:We are social animals and Robert Sapolsky clearly shows how baboons and monkeys are caable of making social acts or norms - in short, cultures.

We are both human and animal. We can create forms of life (cultures) that both prohibit, apologise and advocate or apologise for incest and inbreeding. Wylandriah91 gives a good a good example of such ways a convention can be formed within certain limits. How is it sweet, in what way?


There are a lot of things on which humans tend to be very poor at being soft and rationalizing. Like for example with whom they fuck is a great example.


Many lies were spread, many fake cultures were tried to rise and spread out. They all are in ruins now. A lie cannot last. It cannot endure pressure nor any tests, for it is just a lie in the end and it dissappears like a smoke when you try to grasp it. Same is with incest and loose sexual relationship. It is merely just one of many western lies which they desired or already punished themselves with. When the weight of our past will be shattered by our upcoming future, we will come to regret it this period in our history if we will have luxury to think and to remember any more.


We are not animals at all. We are humans. We are ourselves on our own. A fallen creation. In between the Gods and the animals. We were left here, free to choose our own path. We as the race can rise as far as heavens themselves or go down to roll in the mud with pigs. People for some bizarre reason have that craving to compare themselves to mere animals. I pity them. A life wasted. A potential never realized. I'm akin to the divine. One of them and I urge you all not to look down to animals. They are meaningless. They are not like us. Their behavior has no meaning to us nor explain anything about our own nature. Myths and stories about the Gods have everything we need to understand ourselves and we should look up high and compare ourselves with the divine rather than to look down and join the earthly.

If you have any questions or want to share your own experiences, I'm always interested in hearing them out. Feel free to PM me.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 


Forum Jump:


User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)