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Magical Food
12-16-2016, 07:22 AM
Post: #11
I spend a couple months every year in Peru studying curanderismo. I have been practicing this and learning in Peru for the last 5 years, and before I ever went I studied as much as I could at home for another 5 years. So been researching and teaching myself for 10 years, and been learning the traditional way under different teachers for the last 5.

Most of my teachers you would not know because they do not have websites or books - they are tribal teachers you have to go find in the jungle or in the mountains. I study with 3 Q'ero paqo's who practice Andean curanderismo, I have studied with 3 different huchumeros though mostly with one of them, and I have studied so far with 10 different Ayahuasqueros, and I have dieted under 5 different teachers as well as on my own. Besides those ceremonies I am friends with maybe another 2 dozen curanderos and I talk to them a lot - we share many ideas and debate many things.... Mostly I study with one of the huachumeros, 2 of the Ayahuasqueros and 2 of the Q'ero paqo's, and most of my learning is from them. I have been working as a curandero for 3 years now and have written 2 books on the subject (the second is coming out next month).

I would not say I am an expert, but I certainly have a basic understanding of Peruvian curanderismo.

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12-16-2016, 07:30 AM
Post: #12
Thank you very much for answering nicely and not taking what I was saying in a bad way. I really appreciate it. Did your interest in all this sort of stuff start with attraction to drug use or drugs or what? I'm curious about why you wanted to go to the jungle and do all this? Is it expensive to go about this? How did you find these jungle people, what was the chain of people you talked to to find out where these people were? Are these people making money this way? I didn't expect them to have books or websites or anything.

I'd love for a whole adventure story of your experiences, you could make a whole different thread for that if you want to which describes how you met so and so who met so and so who said so and so is the real deal and how you verified that they are indeed the real deal and other experiences.

Do you think, and again this is going to sound weird and you might take it the wrong way but please don't (I am not trying to be hostile or anything ever), that if there was some weird guy in the jungle, who maybe was pointed out by some less weird people, in a chain of increasingly less weird people, might seem to "know his stuff" and impress you even if what they do know, they've just made up, perhaps from time in the jungle eating various plants and befriending them or whatever?

How much would be needed to convince you of the legitimacy of a person in the jungle? What are your requirements? I know it sounds weird, sorry, but I'm being serious and not sarcastic or anything.
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12-16-2016, 07:54 AM
Post: #13
(12-16-2016 07:30 AM)The Artis Magistra Wrote:  Did your interest in all this sort of stuff start with attraction to drug use or drugs or what? I'm curious about why you wanted to go to the jungle and do all this? Is it expensive to go about this? How did you find these jungle people, what was the chain of people you talked to to find out where these people were? Are these people making money this way? I didn't expect them to have books or websites or anything.
For me it started with a NDE almost drowning in the ocean. I was sober and got caught in a undertow, and as I was dying left my body and experienced visions.... Afterwards I started having visions and synchronicities that felt like spirits were trying to guide me.... I was an atheist so I thought I was going crazy. Around this time I heard about shamanism and Ayahuasca for the first time and the shamans working with Ayahuasca would describe similar experiences to what I was having, so I thought they might be able to help me find clarity.

It can be more or less expensive depending on how you do it. I found ways to do work trades because I do not make much money. So I have been lucky to do this more cheaply then some other people because I pay with my work sometimes instead of only cash....

Most the people I found through referrals and reputation. I knew other people who had traveled to Peru so I got referrals from them, and some of my teachers I actually read about in books first and then went to go find them....

Most curanderos in Peru ask for payment, though a number of them are willing to work with you if you cannot afford it. Training is usually very expensive and requires a lot of personal sacrifice. In the Q'ero tradition for example a family might sacrifice all their income for a few years so their child can train with a master, but afterwards the child becomes a respected leader of the community and brings back a lot of abundance to the family, so it can kinda be a harsh sacrifice for a few years that pays off later.....

Quote:I'd love for a whole adventure story of your experiences, you could make a whole different thread for that if you want to which describes how you met so and so who met so and so who said so and so is the real deal and how you verified that they are indeed the real deal and other experiences.
My 5th book is about to come out and covers a lot of this actually.... It is the most personal of all my books. I dont describe all my teachers, but I share the more stories more associated with the books overall story....

Quote:Do you think that if there was some weird guy in the jungle, who maybe was pointed out by some less weird people, in a chain of increasingly less weird people, might seem to "know his stuff" and impress you even if what they do know, they've just made up, perhaps from time in the jungle eating various plants and befriending them or whatever?

How much would be needed to convince you of the legitimacy of a person in the jungle? What are your requirements? I know it sounds weird, sorry, but I'm being serious and not sarcastic or anything.
Sure, if you didnt know what to look for someone could play tricks on you. There are certainly fake healers trying to rip of tourists sometimes.... That is why you want to know what questions to ask and also get good referrals.

You can ask them what training they did, what ingredients are in their medicine, how do they host ceremony, ect.... Then you want to find referrals where people say the practitioner is a generally ethical and supportive person, and also that they are a skilled healer - if they havent healed anyone obviously they havent proven themselves yet. But if they have a well known reputation for healing a lot of clients and if you find referrals from people you know who were healed by them you get a better idea.

Now that I have more experience I can also get a very good idea what level of work they offer by watching them work and experiencing their ceremony for myself. I can see what effect their songs have and how effective they are in ceremony.

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12-17-2016, 04:39 AM
Post: #14
That is a really great answer and I enjoyed reading that lots. Thank you so much for writing that up, I really appreciate it. Are these teachers generally pretty old? How do they and others view medical doctors who might mix or prescribe creams or medicines or things for various ailments?

How do the songs work or how are they imagined to work? I mean what are the components and the moving elements that do the work? What are the mechanics of these things?
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12-17-2016, 04:56 AM
Post: #15
(12-17-2016 04:39 AM)The Artis Magistra Wrote:  That is a really great answer and I enjoyed reading that lots. Thank you so much for writing that up, I really appreciate it. Are these teachers generally pretty old? How do they and others view medical doctors who might mix or prescribe creams or medicines or things for various ailments?
Depends. They can be any age. I know some who started training as children and started healing work really young, and some I know have been doing it 40+ years.... So they can be any age really. Usually the ones who have been doing it the longest are the most skilled.

They dont have problems with doctors and may go see a doctor depending on what their issue is. Some things doctors are good at treating and some things curanderos are good at treating. It depends on the issue. For broken bone it is best to see a doctor, for chronic illness maybe a curandero.

Quote:How do the songs work or how are they imagined to work? I mean what are the components and the moving elements that do the work? What are the mechanics of these things?
The songs in the traditions I study are considered to be spirit medicine coming from the mouth of the practitioner. In a way it is kinda like the spirit is singing through you to itself, and this song guides how the spirit works on the client. In this way the practitioner moves, removes, adds and balances energies of the client to help them find healing. The songs work on energy and at a spiritual level, but can have physical results because the body and spirit are connected.

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12-17-2016, 05:20 AM
Post: #16
In the Occult community or whatever or Paranormal community and New Age and Healing groups and whatever, the word "energy" is used lots, but what do they mean by this word? What exactly are they talking about? The way people describe it and what they seem to refer to is some kind of substance that is somehow attached or inter-related to the human body, almost in the way blood might be.
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12-17-2016, 05:37 AM
Post: #17
(12-17-2016 05:20 AM)The Artis Magistra Wrote:  In the Occult community or whatever or Paranormal community and New Age and Healing groups and whatever, the word "energy" is used lots, but what do they mean by this word? What exactly are they talking about? The way people describe it and what they seem to refer to is some kind of substance that is somehow attached or inter-related to the human body, almost in the way blood might be.

Everything is made up of energy. So I am using a vague term on purpose because there are many ways healing can take place. Different groups use the term differently I think, so I cannot tell you what others mean by it....

I can share an example. Maybe a client comes with a problem - they cant sleep and have anxiety. So the curandero sits with them in ceremony and sees a dark cloud hanging around the person, or maybe they see a vision of black rats running around the person.... Somehow the curandero knows that this is a visual representation of a harmful energy attached to the person - maybe this energy is a curse passed down through the family or maybe it is from a childhood trauma. So the curandero will then clean this energy away because they see the energy which is attached to the person is causing harm.

Another example might be someone comes to the curandero with relationship problems - they always date people who treat them horrible. So again the curandero sits with them in ceremony but this time they see a vision of a hole in the person - an empty space or sense of lacking. So the curandero searches for the cause of this hole and finds that it is connected to a past trauma which the person has repressed - and they energetically reconnect the person to that repressed part of themselves and at the same time try to bring comfort and warmth to the person so that they can accept the repressed part of themself. So now the person doesnt feel the need to fill a hole within themselves with bad relationships and has the strength they need to find a better partner.

I can also share some of the things you might feel when being sung to.... Sometimes it feels like the area around your body is being worked on - like you can feel something you cannot see. Sometimes it feels like things are moving around in your head or in your body, or you feel something pushing you back, or a weight on your body making you heavy.... Sometimes you will start to feel nausea or you will feel a lessening of nausea.... When most people describe these sensation they may describe it as energy moving around them or inside of them because that is what it feels like. From the curanderos viewpoint it is the spirits working on the person ( so sometimes "energy" refers to a spirit).

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12-17-2016, 11:39 AM
Post: #18
Ok, thank you very much, that was a very nice length and pretty thorough and kind of gave some clues as to what the term might mean when people use it or at least in this context. I guess energy might typically mean some sort of largely unseen influential force or substance which inter-penetrates with people and somehow influences their body or senses in either pleasurable or displeasing ways like pain or harm, and this also seems to connect to psychological aspects and psychology, but it continues to remain rather mysterious seeming unlike other more concrete substances like water or gas.

What I'm also interested in is how and what "energy" is connected to? You don't have to answer these though if you don't feel like it, but can PM me if you ever want to or email me at [email protected] but you don't have to.

I like to try to understand and grasp or determined or help develop an idea for the very bottom or basic fundamental mechanics of a system and its linguistic framework and terminology if I can and its essential philosophy.

I think that they are probably believing that everyone has a spirit and is a spirit or at least connected to their spirit and that spirits are how spirits are influenced, and that spirits can be attached to things which they can influence, including ones own spirit, and this might be a pretty basic rough sketch of animist ideas even after some evolution and other influences.
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12-18-2016, 02:20 AM
Post: #19
Usually the energy is considered spiritual in nature - so they work on a spiritual level to help heal the body, mind, and emotions (because they are all connected and inter-related). Curanderos I have studied with have an animistic view of the world - they see everything as having spirit.

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