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Physical vs. Visible Evocation: Which is Better?
03-24-2017, 11:52 PM
Post: #51
(03-24-2017 08:30 PM)barach713 Wrote:  Thank you! I thought so, however i was just wondering about the 'protection' part...which method would you say is potentially more dangerous if any?

Which method? Are you asking which is more dangerous between GT or modern? IMO I would say modern is more dangerous, simply because most of the modern evocation systems I've read don't have any sort of verification method to ensure the spirit who came is the one you called. Nor do they have any methods of protection if the spirit evoked becomes unruly. Oh yes, they have their "astral circles", but they're about as effective as astral condoms.

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03-25-2017, 12:13 AM
Post: #52
(03-24-2017 10:18 PM)Dman3213 Wrote:  I would assume physical is actually better because having a spirit physically with you in the room is a miracle

If all you're after is the manifestation (I do not recommend bothering spirits just to see if they're real) then yes, physical is better. But if you're after an actual desire (love, money, health, etc) then there is no "better" method. If you can see and hear the spirit within a scrying device then there is really is no need to go through the effort of getting the spirit to appear physically. Nor do I think most people want it. They say they do but I don't think most people could handle a spirit being physically present.

(03-24-2017 10:18 PM)Dman3213 Wrote:  So let me get this straight... with physical evocation, anyone can walk in the room and see the spirit... yet the spirit STILL can't be shown on camera.

Yes and no. It depends on which method of physical evocation the magician is using. I believe there is a thread around here where Angelo and I discussed the differences between the two. If you go with the Koetting style (modern) of physical evocation (using incense as the manifestation base; but blood or semen can also be used) then no. Only those who are present during the setup and preliminary rites (if any) and conjurations in order to see the spirit. They'll need to be in the right state of mind (which the aforementioned things help facilitate) and also have their spirit vision/3rd eye/spirit sight/second sight or whatever you call it, open/activated in order to see the spirit.

In the Lisiewski way (explicitly traditional) of physical evocation, then I would say yes. The spirit would be physically present and anyone who happens by could see and hear it. However, this is extremely unlikely. The vast majority of magicians who can actually make this happen are more than likely smart enough to make sure they do this sort of thing in seclusion. Not in their 3rd floor apartment in the middle of Manhattan. Also, many grimoires require the ritual to be done in specific locations which would make it unlikely that some random person would happen by. Some also require things that most wouldn't want others to see, such as animal sacrifices. The Grand Grimoire/Le Veritable Dragon Rouge is a great example of this as it calls for the sacrifice of a goat. The Picatrix has a few rites that require doves and goats to be sacrificed. I doubt someone is doing this in their backyard in the suburbs.

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03-25-2017, 12:25 AM
Post: #53
What would happen if you made physical contact with a spirit?
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03-25-2017, 03:24 AM
Post: #54
My brother has over 20 years as a 11-B soldier with several combat deployments and plenty of life/death conflicts in the field. Like many toughened vets really not afraid of anything.

Then a few weeks ago he told me of these 3 weird flames he saw and terror gripped him.. He seized, nearly bit his tongue through, stopped breathing and seized. He woke up in an mri machine. He only told me and my mother this.

So, yeah you sure you want to see spirits and feel their full presence? Perhaps it does take an inner strength.

I cant explain healings either. I dont verify as well (maybe faulty or over trusting). My damaged upper back... Sure seems fine now and all i did was commune with my spirits (for lack of wording). Yeah, sleepy but it feels so much better compared to like someone trying to rip my scapula off my body. I can take deep breaths even. The apt should br freezing at the 60s set but it feels warm. No temperature on the thermo that i took. Cant see, hear but seems i can feel.

Dun care. I aint in pain. Thats good.

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03-25-2017, 04:47 AM
Post: #55
(03-25-2017 12:25 AM)Dman3213 Wrote:  What would happen if you made physical contact with a spirit?

Like touch them? I don't know.

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03-25-2017, 08:12 AM
Post: #56
It should be recordable by some apparatus that can record material changes or existence of things which are not hallucinations.
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03-26-2017, 08:14 PM
Post: #57
(03-23-2017 12:51 PM)The God-King Wrote:  
(03-22-2017 07:43 PM)barach713 Wrote:  The god king, i was wondering why do we still need to work within a magic circle and banish and so on if using visible techinque...if with visible is like we are talking to a spirit with closed doors looking through window..you know the old saying vampire cannot get in your house unless you invite him....if he is still on the astral plane and we are on physical, is there really need for such measurements...or you still have to protect your astral body...care to elaborate? Thanks

Sure. The circle is more than just protection. It represents the entire cosmology of the system being used. Those names/titles inscribed around the circle are important. They create subtle changes to the magus both internally and externally. When the circle is properly cast the only thing that exists is within that circle. The entire universe has been reduced to a 9 ft radius. Within that circle the magician must take on the characteristics of God, he must essentially become God. Not literally of course, but in a spiritual sense. This is what is meant by "Divine Authority". Why else should the spirits listen? Who are you (or any of us), but a mere mortal uttering words from a grimoire that predates most of your ancestors? In GT the we are but a conduit, the power comes from elsewhere. This elsewhere is the Abrahamic deity and his angels and other such spirits. All of this is represented in the circle.

What are you views on the Abrahamic Deity and his angels, do you believe this was the creator God? I have been having conflicts with this idea, as the gnostics viewed this god as the real devil and archon, keeping humankind enslaved. Also ties in with the sumerian myths of Enki and Enlil.
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03-26-2017, 08:22 PM
Post: #58
well I receive visions which is audio visible that is an evocation in its sense because I see the spirit or demon in form and hear it in his own realm or where he wants to show itself to me. what would you call this skill ? mental evocation ?
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03-27-2017, 01:28 AM
Post: #59
Very cool, can you make a thread sharing all your procedures and experiences from the beggining with a brief introduction into how you got into magic and then the full stories. Write as much and as clearly as possible in detail. I would love to examine that.
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