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Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research
08-13-2017, 05:19 AM (This post was last modified: 08-13-2017 05:20 AM by seisatsu.)
Post: #1
Not technically books, but this topic bridges science and magick and involves research papers, so I'm not sure where to put it. Feel free to move it if it goes better somewhere else.

Has anyone checked out the Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research papers? Back in the 80s a division of Princeton University formed to do a ton of research on consciousness and psychic phenomena, but the scientific community scoffed at them and most people have never heard of it. There's a treasure trove of dozens of research papers here filled with experimental data, and the whole site is pretty interesting.

http://www.princeton.edu/~pear/
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08-13-2017, 05:43 AM
Post: #2
There is a good reason why scientific community just scoffs at them. I do it too. Smiling

Almost everything they write is just scientifically sounding gibberish. Making claim after claim does not substitute for science and occult first need to get solid grounding on at least very basics. Since said individuals do not know how to construct, thus their works are just gibberish. I do not know specifically about them, but it was always the case with any paper at which I had looked. It sounds serious, but it is not. It lacks any background research and peer review. That is, review of actual scientists. They also fail spectacularly to deliver any proof of theories or things which they are talking about.
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08-13-2017, 06:57 AM
Post: #3
(08-13-2017 05:43 AM)Calicifer Wrote:  
There is a good reason why scientific community just scoffs at them. I do it too. Smiling

Almost everything they write is just scientifically sounding gibberish. Making claim after claim does not substitute for science and occult first need to get solid grounding on at least very basics. Since said individuals do not know how to construct, thus their works are just gibberish. I do not know specifically about them, but it was always the case with any paper at which I had looked. It sounds serious, but it is not. It lacks any background research and peer review. That is, review of actual scientists. They also fail spectacularly to deliver any proof of theories or things which they are talking about.

Peer review would be very nice, but as I understand it's hard to come by for this kind of research. I'm interested in their methods and data collected but I understand that science is made of reproducibility and not sciencey words.

I think the aim of this project though was more to raise questions than to provide answers. If it can pave the way for further research then I think it has value.
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08-13-2017, 07:16 AM
Post: #4
You see, the issue that people do not understand is how fragile science and understanding is. For us, it took 10 thousands years of constant warfare, prosperity and intellectual growth in order to break the barrier of science. That is, to see rapid technological growth and not just minor improvements as was seen up to industrial age. All civilizations except ours are unable to produce sustainable culture which would progressively improve. Everyone else on Earth degrade over time, only we were capable of such immense feat. It took us a lot of time for science to become a thing. It is same with spirituality. Humanity needs still to grow for thousands of years, for this field to increase, for practice to become common place, for humanity to become a lot more sensitive to spirit world by default and common knowledge should accumulate to the point we could start making an objective claims and discoveries. As it stands now, it is just pseudo-science and it should be despised as such. Be humble and understand that some things require time and effort to be made ours. We cannot really rush it as some people do try it with outrageus claims. All our advancements are fragile though, we must have faith that one day, this field will bring tangible results and could stand among worthy man without a fear of ridicule.
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08-13-2017, 07:36 AM (This post was last modified: 08-13-2017 07:37 AM by seisatsu.)
Post: #5
(08-13-2017 07:16 AM)Calicifer Wrote:  
You see, the issue that people do not understand is how fragile science and understanding is. For us, it took 10 thousands years of constant warfare, prosperity and intellectual growth in order to break the barrier of science. That is, to see rapid technological growth and not just minor improvements as was seen up to industrial age. All civilizations except ours are unable to produce sustainable culture which would progressively improve. Everyone else on Earth degrade over time, only we were capable of such immense feat. It took us a lot of time for science to become a thing. It is same with spirituality. Humanity needs still to grow for thousands of years, for this field to increase, for practice to become common place, for humanity to become a lot more sensitive to spirit world by default and common knowledge should accumulate to the point we could start making an objective claims and discoveries. As it stands now, it is just pseudo-science and it should be despised as such. Be humble and understand that some things require time and effort to be made ours. We cannot really rush it as some people do try it with outrageus claims. All our advancements are fragile though, we must have faith that one day, this field will bring tangible results and could stand among worthy man without a fear of ridicule.

I agree with all of your points except your timetable. Watching current trends in technology, the occult community, and even other fields like marketing, psychology, and physics, I can see science and magick converging on some points to some extent within my lifetime. I do think though that truly understanding the mysteries of this world could take hundreds or thousands of years, if there is even an end to them in the first place, which part of me doubts.
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08-13-2017, 08:22 AM (This post was last modified: 08-13-2017 08:23 AM by Calicifer.)
Post: #6
Occult is experiencing "a wild west" syndrome. We know nothing and anything goes. Heck, a lot of people think that it is all in their minds thus you can know how much they truly achieve within said field. In addition, field is full of delusion, frauds and nobody had ever produced tangible, reproducible results. Thus, I keep on my stance that occult nowadays are still in pitiful state. Before people at least took this field seriously, now everyone writes books about anything. Throws empty promises and misguides people with their own idiotic perspectives and reasonings. If we would gather everything which we know, we will soon realize that we do not agree on anything really. Thus it is a good indication that spirituality as a field of "science" is just starting to develop as our traditional science did with first human civilizations. To start witnessing true applications of said powers in daily life will take countless generations and ever increasing extent and power of said spiritual manifestations and abilities of individuals.
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08-13-2017, 08:45 AM
Post: #7
(08-13-2017 08:22 AM)Calicifer Wrote:  
Occult is experiencing "a wild west" syndrome. We know nothing and anything goes. Heck, a lot of people think that it is all in their minds thus you can know how much they truly achieve within said field. In addition, field is full of delusion, frauds and nobody had ever produced tangible, reproducible results. Thus, I keep on my stance that occult nowadays are still in pitiful state. Before people at least took this field seriously, now everyone writes books about anything. Throws empty promises and misguides people with their own idiotic perspectives and reasonings. If we would gather everything which we know, we will soon realize that we do not agree on anything really. Thus it is a good indication that spirituality as a field of "science" is just starting to develop as our traditional science did with first human civilizations. To start witnessing true applications of said powers in daily life will take countless generations and ever increasing extent and power of said spiritual manifestations and abilities of individuals.

But then there have also been extraordinary scientists such Nikola Tesla who arguably pushed their fields a generation or more ahead all by themselves. And with the advent of the Internet, the rate of the propagation and evolution of information has been growing exponentially, and a good specialist in any field can spot the diamonds in the bullshit. The rate of progress is never certain. You may be surprised, or I may be disappointed. We will see.
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08-13-2017, 09:21 AM (This post was last modified: 08-13-2017 09:32 AM by Calicifer.)
Post: #8
Naive belief and hope is unbecoming of a man. People often overestimate importance and significance of said great minds. For example, Dawkins was not first to discover evolution. Said ideas were circulating before him, but he was the only one to bring them with such force. Einstein was completely unnecessary in creation of atomic bomb. Nazies too had capabilities to create such a weapon even without said famous minds. Tesla himself was rather highly inefficient fellow who is more surrounded by myths rather for real contributions to technological development.

http://listverse.com/2014/09/26/10-uncom...ola-tesla/


There wasn't anyone within occult field to really make any real pushes. Knowledge is rather accumulated holistically and ironically, people like me are doing far more for the human psychic development than said specialists. Without real, objective gains, we can only increase our gains in qualitative terms. That is, how widespread said phenomena is. With being exposed to such energies and forced to live with them, we will increase in sensitivity and capabilities.


Another possibility is of course breeding humans for that. Or in better term, said sensitivity seems to be genetical. Thus, with some guidance we might be able to alter who we are within time. I highly doubt that we will be able to pin point such esoteric capabilities to specific genes, but I do have faith that we might alter who we are into states where said abilities are far more likely to manifest and in far stronger capabilities. One form of ascension is by genetical manipulation of our DNR, changing ourselves as species into perfect, angelic beings. Or if we wish, we might desire for something more, for something more powerful and we might design our retro viruses to rather infect us with superpowers, like growth of wings, regeneration of limbs and etc. etc. Transcending feeble limitations of our deeply flawed design and creating bodies which are armored, extremely regenerative, capable of surviving cannon hits to the head or chest, being capable of infinite life, spitting acid to help us with daily chores, flying and aquatic capabilities in order to enjoy life in its full glory. In the end, humanity will look something as beautiful as this:

[Image: 484733a30fb5c10798826589a457803f.jpg]

Isn't she beautiful? Aren't she ultimate manifestation of humanity's potential and power? We all should strive toward such future, making us into something more. Into something far greater than all of demons and angels. Spitting on their image and choosing our own path, far superior and far more beautiful than anyone who ever before imagined or dared to go towards.



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08-13-2017, 10:00 AM (This post was last modified: 08-13-2017 10:03 AM by seisatsu.)
Post: #9
Naive I may be, but my bets are cast, at least until I am convinced otherwise. The naive person always believes those who call them such are simply jaded themselves; I do not have your perspective. There are some I work with of similar opinion to myself on the progress of magick in relation to technology who are far more qualified to argue their points. Sadly, they are not members here. I feel that we have differing opinions of the core concepts of magick in the first place which go deeper than our discussion here, and that we are unlikely to convince each other in a short exchange. I do however think that this discussion would make a fantastic thread on its own, and I may like to spin it off to get a larger range of opinions weighing in.

The idea of human ascension through means of technology has fascinated me for some time. Genetic modification is one likely path to this goal; physical interfacing with advanced computer technology is another which is more related to my fields of study. There are many ways in which humans could ascend to become a higher life form, and it is likely that many of these will be used together in the future. Humans are also evolving as a species all the time, albeit at a slower pace. I like to imagine that humans will eventually become whatever they want, without limit, if we survive long enough. This is also a fantastic topic for a new thread.

My goal for this thread though was more to point out the resource, and maybe have people share things they found particularly interesting when looking through the papers. I'll concede my argument for now, since you seem far more prepared to argue your points currently and have left me with some things to think on, and the discussion is diverging quite a bit from the topic I had originally intended.
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08-13-2017, 12:25 PM (This post was last modified: 08-13-2017 12:42 PM by Calicifer.)
Post: #10
You are a fool! Flesh is weak, the machine is strong! Let me replace your left arm with plasma cannon. You weren't using that hand for anything better than wanking. How anyone can tell that this is not our future? They must be mad!


[Image: mechanicus.PNG]








And here is how to guide for it:


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