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The Source of Occult Power
01-12-2017, 02:47 PM (This post was last modified: 01-12-2017 02:51 PM by Heilsweg.)
Post: #1
As occultists, we recite spells, we perform rituals ranging from the simple to complex ceremonies. Some of us prefer one path over another. One method over another. As occultists, we understand the importance of the words we use. We know there is power in them. But where does the power come from? Surely if words hold power, we want to make sure we understand each other and are talking about the same things. "magic" and "spirits" are such loaded terms. I imagine there will be very different answers for each of you, and I'm hoping you'll share them.

For example, if you practice divination - which we can loosely agree is the act of foreseeing the future, some explanations for it will be different.

a yoruba oracle might explain that he has a bowl filled with objects and a saltwater crab. He reads the crab's movements and interactions with the objects, as gifted to him by the god Eshu, and he translates them into future events.

a "spiritual", non-religious person may not believe in any sort of gods. But they believe in "intuition" and they can sometimes "get a sense" of what the week, month, or year will bring. And their practice will consist of trying to get the most out of that intuition. What would this person think of the oracle and vice versa?

There are thousands of different answers for this one topic alone. With thousands and thousands more depending on which area of the occult we're talking about.

So, to recap: Post some of the things you practice and where the power comes from. This thread is a chance for all of us to find common ground.

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01-12-2017, 02:48 PM
Post: #2
The power comes from within
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01-12-2017, 02:53 PM (This post was last modified: 01-12-2017 02:56 PM by Heilsweg.)
Post: #3
(01-12-2017 02:48 PM)Feywer96 Wrote:  The power comes from within

Please elaborate. In my example, a non-religious person believes the power comes from their "intuition" within. An oracle believes the power also comes from within, but gifted by a real god on some other real plane of existence.

"Within" - same word, very different ideas about it.

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01-12-2017, 03:04 PM (This post was last modified: 01-12-2017 03:05 PM by Feywer96.)
Post: #4
(01-12-2017 02:53 PM)Heilsweg Wrote:  
(01-12-2017 02:48 PM)Feywer96 Wrote:  The power comes from within

Please elaborate. In my example, a non-religious person believes the power comes from their "intuition" within. An oracle believes the power also comes from within, but gifted by a real god on some other real plane of existence.

"Within" - same word, very different ideas about it.

In my mind they are no different. I don't look that far, there's no need to. The "innate" power within the individual compared to that "gifted" by a god? They are one and the same - but seen differently to different people. The atheist calls it intuition, the oracle calls it divine. To me power is power. It still rests within the individual.
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01-12-2017, 03:26 PM (This post was last modified: 01-12-2017 03:31 PM by Heilsweg.)
Post: #5
(01-12-2017 03:04 PM)Feywer96 Wrote:  
(01-12-2017 02:53 PM)Heilsweg Wrote:  
(01-12-2017 02:48 PM)Feywer96 Wrote:  The power comes from within

Please elaborate. In my example, a non-religious person believes the power comes from their "intuition" within. An oracle believes the power also comes from within, but gifted by a real god on some other real plane of existence.

"Within" - same word, very different ideas about it.

In my mind they are no different. I don't look that far, there's no need to. The "innate" power within the individual compared to that "gifted" by a god? They are one and the same - but seen differently to different people. The atheist calls it intuition, the oracle calls it divine. To me power is power. It still rests within the individual.

Let's look at the results of "innate power" in other areas of the occult. There's many threads on WF about summoning spirits through rituals. Or money spells which allow you to gain physical, usable money. Both of these things are considered very real with the possibility of very successful results. And all they might do in terms of action is a ritual to a god of their choosing. That would imply some level of supernatural means. Some occultists may not believe in that, are they wrong?

Magick with supernatural means vs natural means. This is why clarification and explanation of method is needed in occult communities.

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01-12-2017, 03:30 PM (This post was last modified: 01-12-2017 03:31 PM by Feywer96.)
Post: #6
(01-12-2017 03:26 PM)Heilsweg Wrote:  That would imply some level of supernatural means. Some occultists may not believe in that, are they wrong?

It doesn't make them wrong~ Some occultists subscribe to a more psychological or "less spiritual" way of thinking than others. They may get the same results, just go about it in different ways. Doesn't make the other any less valid. But they both have to act through themselves to achieve what they wish. Which is why I say the power comes from within.

Quote:Magick with supernatural means vs natural means. This is why clarification and explanation of method is needed in occult communities.

To me, the "super"-natural is very much the natural.
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01-12-2017, 03:54 PM (This post was last modified: 01-12-2017 03:55 PM by Heilsweg.)
Post: #7
(01-12-2017 03:30 PM)Feywer96 Wrote:  It doesn't make them wrong~ Some occultists subscribe to a more psychological or "less spiritual" way of thinking than others. They may get the same results, just go about it in different ways. Doesn't make the other any less valid. But they both have to act through themselves to achieve what they wish. Which is why I say the power comes from within.

I understand that some occultists subscribe to different types of ideas and practice, but if someone is claiming a specific spell (let's say a spell to make someone fall in love with them) worked because of a real god/spirit/demon working through them, does that entity really exist and truly worked through this person? Or, we can disregard entities all together, let's say they do a magical activity involving something widely believed as psuedo-scientific. They do this ritual alone in their home, and the next time they encounter the person desired - the love spell will have worked.

VERSUS

An occultist who uses ceremonial magick, or sigils, to empower self, change mindset, re-organize thoughts, priorities - to go out there and bond with the person they desire and through effort and chance hope for love.

Are you saying both of these things will work just as well? And if so, then why the hell is the "psychological occultist" wasting a bunch of time and effort with this work when he can just get a supernatural favor?

(01-12-2017 03:30 PM)Feywer96 Wrote:  To me, the "super"-natural is very much the natural.

Again, this is something many occultists may say while still believing totally different things. For example, one occultist may believe an airplane flying over isolated native tribesmen will see something supernatural but that is not really the case. While another occultist would say that a psuedo-scientific practice is "natural" just "misunderstood".

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01-12-2017, 04:09 PM (This post was last modified: 01-12-2017 04:25 PM by Feywer96.)
Post: #8
(01-12-2017 03:54 PM)Heilsweg Wrote:  Are you saying both of these things will work just as well? And if so, then why the hell is the "psychological occultist" wasting a bunch of time and effort with this work when he can just get a supernatural favor?

I don't know.. because people are different?

Quote:Again, this is something many occultists may say while still believing totally different things. For example, one occultist may believe an airplane flying over isolated native tribesmen will see something supernatural but that is not really the case. While another occultist would say that a psuedo-scientific practice is "natural" just "misunderstood".

Ugh.

What I meant by that statement - is that instead of seeing the "supernatural" as "super" ordinary, see it as the natural and ordinary -- meaning -- if you partition/dissect everything you won't see it for the whole. Look at it simpler. There isn't a whole lot to debate.

To reiterate my opine; the power comes from within. I don't care about the "where" because how I look at it - it boils down to the individual doing things for himself. You can't sit on your ass and do job spells and expect one to fall in your lap - you have to go out and make way for it to happen. Similarly, no matter "how" that power manifests - you - as an individual - have the power. You're the one making the decisions to do anything in the first place.
The atheist may have intuition, an oracle may be divinely inspired - but it comes down to the atheist and the oracle as people: They are the vessels for the power. They are the ones that ultimately do. They are the acting vessels.

There are a billion different answers to this; plants, the sun, "cosmic energy", gods, spirits, demons - what you will - but it's the people that do the spells (or anything for that matter lol) to begin with~
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01-12-2017, 08:51 PM
Post: #9
Yeah, what good is a charged battery if it isnt plugged into a device? Same with life.

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01-13-2017, 01:01 AM
Post: #10
An occultist associated with a particular tradition or system that involves non-physical entities would use their template and cosmology to evaluate why a person exhibits natural occult ability.
Likewise, a person demonstrating a knack for divination will more or less wind up having a gnostic experience at some point IF they try and hone or improve that ability.
However, if they neglect it and take it for granted, then they can definitely live in a world where they are ignorant of that kind of dynamic.
If they pursue to improve divination, they are definitely going to come across the occult or paranormal.. it's unavoidable and comes with the territory.
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