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[Help] Yet Another Curse Query

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Xenophon

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Does it ever make magickal sense to curse the dead? After all, "the evil men do lives on after them." Likewise, the dead agent might be assumed to remanifest itself given that death is transition not terminus. So, is it ever a good use of time and rite to not let the dead rest in peace, as it were?

The sole case I know of someone doing this was against a deceased individual known for pronouncedly strong opinions in this life, though not for magick practices in the same span. The curse-thrower shortly thereafter suffered some serious health problems, though these could very well have been natural.
 

Promise

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Interesting idea!! Of course, there are several cultures that believe ancestral worship is valuable, which is some combination of blessing, invoking, and evoking ones ancestors.

Another related possibility is cursing a living person's ancestors, would that potentially be a way embed a curse in someone's (at least metaphoric dna).

Also related, cursing someone's past lives to magnify the effect in this lifetime.
 

Shaman

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If they caused you lifelong problems that you still suffer from, then yes it's totally fine. But how does one even curse a dead person?
 

Xenophon

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If they caused you lifelong problems that you still suffer from, then yes it's totally fine. But how does one even curse a dead person?
I imagine one tries to strike at the late one's posthumous effect or their eventual ribirth.
 

Robert Ramsay

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I would have thought the worst curse you could level at a dead person would be for them to be utterly forgotten.
 

Xenophon

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I would have thought the worst curse you could level at a dead person would be for them to be utterly forgotten.
The assumption here is that something like the atman stays operative across lifetimes, as do one's influences launched while previously alive.
 

Vandheer

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I know its not the same thing you are asking but I was thinking about creating a curse that would make a dead persons spirit to experience every kind of decay happening to its decaying/rotting body.

I abandoned the idea, it felt way too cruel. Unless one is a pedo, you know what I mean.

That atman thing is an interesting perspective. I was approaching the way in a sense that a reconnection between the physical body and spirit would be made. Perhaps like a mummification.

So the curse would slowly kill him but the torture wouldn't stop there.
 

Wildchildx11

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I personally don't curse as a matter of principle, I'm not going to judge those who do.


Because of the law of karma, don't curse unless you are willing to be subjected to the curse yourself, probably not immediately, but at some time.

I think that people don't understand that even negative intentions cause karma and I strive to only use Magick to help others. To me, cursing doesn't make a lot of sense.
 

Xenophon

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I personally don't curse as a matter of principle, I'm not going to judge those who do.

.
Because of the law of karma, don't curse unless you are willing to be subjected to the curse yourself, probably not immediately, but at some time.

I think that people don't understand that even negative intentions cause karma and I strive to only use Magick to help others. To me, cursing doesn't make a lot of sense.
Actually feel free to judge. We all of us judge all the time everyday. BUT because of culturally ingrained Nazarene scruples, we're afraid to own up to exercising a vital survival---and success---skill. Interestingly, the worst Jesus could think of to say about judging others is that we will be judged by the same standard we apply to others. Which indicates that the only sort of human nature He knew was that of the con man. One would expect better of an alleged Messiah.

I think of a curse like any other weapon. Tasks demand their tools.
 

Wildchildx11

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I'm wondering the mechanism of curses.

Do they just release pre-existing negative energy already present in the person's own psyche? Do they take on malefic energy from the environment. I mean, energy can't be created or destroyed, it has to come somewhere. Could you work with the energy of curses at all for a faster spiritual development.

I think I may legitimately be cursed, but I'm actually thankful for it since I wouldn't have had the Tower fall and had to rebuild it stronger. I don't know who.

Their fucking death curse failed to kill me and each time it tries to break me down and shakes my world view to the core, I'm just going to rise stronger.

That or I took on all the sins of the world, which is the last time because people should really learn to handle their own sins.

I'm just joking. I'm not having Jesus delusions again. I'm past that.
 

Wintruz

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I'm wondering the mechanism of curses.

Do they just release pre-existing negative energy already present in the person's own psyche? Do they take on malefic energy from the environment. I mean, energy can't be created or destroyed, it has to come somewhere.
I think this (the section I've quoted anyway) would have made an interesting separate thread.

In essence, yes, a curse is the violent release of negative energy without concern for the consequences. All of these elements are necessary and here's each one in turn:

1. The negative energy (usually in a very emotional form) has to be present in the sorcerer's psyche and it must be connected with the target. This is why it's difficult to curse people (say politicians) with whom one has not got a two-way energy link. There's no pathway for energy exchange there. It's also why, aside from being unvirtuous, taking the negative energy that one person has infected us with and trying to direct that onto someone else generally doesn't work either. So the target must be the person who has given us the negative energy in the first place and this given energy must be very strong. If a sorcerer is effectively cursing people for trivial reasons, it's an indication that there's something deeply damaged within their psyche. They'd be better off understanding where that came from and directing all of the negativity back to that source.

2. It must be violently released. This means the decision has been made to return this energy in the most potently destructive form possible. We have chosen to amplify and streamline this energy and send it back to where it came from with a hundred times the force with which it was directed at us. When this is done properly it utterly uproots from the self all of the energy we've received from that person. The thought of them no longer induces rage but apathy. For all of the "darkness" that goes on in a curse ritual, there is a very cathartic aspect to it.

3. This must be done without concern for what happens next. It contradicts the negative energies being worked with to try and inhibit them or tell them to "not go too far" (if you feel this way, you've not been damaged enough to justify a curse). The sorcerer really must not care what happens. If the cathartic dimension has been done correctly, this part is easy. Also at play here is the good advice to consciously "forget" about a magical Working after doing it.
Could you work with the energy of curses at all for a faster spiritual development.
Not only possible but necessary. A curse really should be the last resort. Before then there's all kinds of transmutation of energy work that can be carried out, from learning not to be reactive to transforming the energy into a different kind of energy. People who have been traumatised and who use that to push them on their field of expertise are (usually unconsciously) doing this kind of energy alchemy. Think of Mike Tyson learning to box because someone killed his pigeons or an Italian dancer becoming Madonna because of the trauma of losing her mother.
Does it ever make magickal sense to curse the dead? After all, "the evil men do lives on after them." Likewise, the dead agent might be assumed to remanifest itself given that death is transition not terminus. So, is it ever a good use of time and rite to not let the dead rest in peace, as it were?
This reminds me a bit of Agrippa's account of witches stealing body parts from the dead in order to have spiritual control over them. In my view, the metaphysical implications are a separate thing. If a dead person has done damage and justice wasn't served in life, then there would be catharsis in a ritual which heaps horror upon horror upon their tormented soul as long as it is catharsis and not an obsession. Desecrating their memory could also be useful. If anyone is going to do it, do it once and do it well. That can range from the criminal (smashing/graffitiing a gravestone or abusing their ashes) to writing about what they did and the kind of person they were. If it meets the same caveats as would apply to a living person, then curse them and move on. As with all curses, it's about you letting go of a hindrance to your evolution.
The sole case I know of someone doing this was against a deceased individual known for pronouncedly strong opinions in this life, though not for magick practices in the same span. The curse-thrower shortly thereafter suffered some serious health problems, though these could very well have been natural.
...
Thou hast no right but to do thy will. Do that and no other shall say nay. ~ 666
Virtue, Truth and Honour are a perfect means of aligning with True Will. If we're practicing them, nothing will divert us.
 

Wildchildx11

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I think this (the section I've quoted anyway) would have made an interesting separate thread.

In essence, yes, a curse is the violent release of negative energy without concern for the consequences. All of these elements are necessary and here's each one in turn:

1. The negative energy (usually in a very emotional form) has to be present in the sorcerer's psyche and it must be connected with the target. This is why it's difficult to curse people (say politicians) with whom one has not got a two-way energy link. There's no pathway for energy exchange there. It's also why, aside from being unvirtuous, taking the negative energy that one person has infected us with and trying to direct that onto someone else generally doesn't work either. So the target must be the person who has given us the negative energy in the first place and this given energy must be very strong. If a sorcerer is effectively cursing people for trivial reasons, it's an indication that there's something deeply damaged within their psyche. They'd be better off understanding where that came from and directing all of the negativity back to that source.

2. It must be violently released. This means the decision has been made to return this energy in the most potently destructive form possible. We have chosen to amplify and streamline this energy and send it back to where it came from with a hundred times the force with which it was directed at us. When this is done properly it utterly uproots from the self all of the energy we've received from that person. The thought of them no longer induces rage but apathy. For all of the "darkness" that goes on in a curse ritual, there is a very cathartic aspect to it.

3. This must be done without concern for what happens next. It contradicts the negative energies being worked with to try and inhibit them or tell them to "not go too far" (if you feel this way, you've not been damaged enough to justify a curse). The sorcerer really must not care what happens. If the cathartic dimension has been done correctly, this part is easy. Also at play here is the good advice to consciously "forget" about a magical Working after doing it.

Not only possible but necessary. A curse really should be the last resort. Before then there's all kinds of transmutation of energy work that can be carried out, from learning not to be reactive to transforming the energy into a different kind of energy. People who have been traumatised and who use that to push them on their field of expertise are (usually unconsciously) doing this kind of energy alchemy. Think of Mike Tyson learning to box because someone killed his pigeons or an Italian dancer becoming Madonna because of the trauma of losing her mother.

This reminds me a bit of Agrippa's account of witches stealing body parts from the dead in order to have spiritual control over them. In my view, the metaphysical implications are a separate thing. If a dead person has done damage and justice wasn't served in life, then there would be catharsis in a ritual which heaps horror upon horror upon their tormented soul as long as it is catharsis and not an obsession. Desecrating their memory could also be useful. If anyone is going to do it, do it once and do it well. That can range from the criminal (smashing/graffitiing a gravestone or abusing their ashes) to writing about what they did and the kind of person they were. If it meets the same caveats as would apply to a living person, then curse them and move on. As with all curses, it's about you letting go of a hindrance to your evolution.

...

Virtue, Truth and Honour are a perfect means of aligning with True Will. If we're practicing them, nothing will divert us.
It could be argued that cursing is ethical because you are just taking the negative energy someone caused and sending it back to them to maintain balance, however the "without regard for what happens next" kind of suggests otherwise.

I'm assuming that people who aren't magicians curse all the time without even realizing it?

I have tried to curse before, I was furious that I was basically made homeless by the disability process when I perceived that I was a case that needed it. It took me over 3 years and two automatic denials, because I was seeking it for mental health. They made generic copy and paste statements in the denials stating that "Claimant has increased attention in activities that are considered fun and less attention in activities that aren't considered fun". I wanted the people at the top primarily responsible to face their actions for the trauma I went through and had to face to face it so it didn't happen to anyone else. During the SSDI hearing the ALJ called the evidence of disability "extremely persuasive", it was meant to be a temporary thing, but sort of became semi-permanent because cycling through homelessness and abuse just added another layer of trauma. I found it ethical because it was as a result of greed and I didn't feel that anyone else should have to go through what I went through. I was hospitalized like 6 times during the 3 year period.

I'm not as "love and light" as I present myself to be. I don't like the fact of causing harm, but when I'm impacted by greed and corruption and it causes trauma to me, I'm human. I think there is a place for cursing and I would be hypocritical to not say so.

If you don't even know the person responsible then will the curse have an effect, it says it needed an attachment, would that have been an attachment? Now I can be okay and live with it if it didn't, but I would get a sense of satisfaction if it did have an impact. It was directed towards pretty much whoever in the system was primarily responsible for the trauma I had to face from utilizing the system as intended.
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My situation was I quit my job working with developmentally and emotionally disabled youth because I developed suicidal impulsivity which impacted my attention, I thought "disability is there for a temporary amount of time until I deal with this" it then forced me to survive without income for over 3 years because I was responsible and quit my job when I couldn't safely work.

It's the fact that I wasn't even allowed to work towards the end of the process because I wasn't allowed to earn an income and they were holding $30,000 in SSDI backpay over my head which could have gotten me out of homelessness. I'm able to justify it to myself and not feel guilty about it.
 
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