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Angels and Demons with possible Connections

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WalkerOfSorrow

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I've been doing some research into origins of angelic and demonic figures, connections between names and associated domains, that kind of thing. That being said, this is not my field at all. What I'm finding is that these beings did not originate in the Judaic or Christian religious cultures that have made them well-known. Please jump in and let me know what you think.

El - Thought of as a name for the Jewish God, actually a regional variant of the name Enlil. This god of the air is worshipped in Sumerian, Babylonian, and Hurrian circles by various names, and is a son of Anu and brother of Enki.

Yah/Yahweh/Jehovah - Also thought of as a name for the Jewish God, actually regional variants of the name Ea, or Enki. Multi-faceted god of creation, intelligence, crafts, water, seawater, lakewater,
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, magic, and mischief.

Michael - Debate exists over whether his name is a question ("who is like El?") or a statement that this angel is like El. A less common view is that this "meaning" was retroactively created for the epithet Mikal, which belongs to the Canaanite god Resheph, a war god of plague and fire who is believed to be the same person as the Sumerian deity Nergal.

Gabriel - Name derives from gever and El, suggesting that the meaning is not "God is my strength" but rather "El's Strongman." I've seen speculation that Gabriel is Nanna/Sin of the Sumerian and Babylonian pantheons, but Gabriel has no ties to the moon or to astrology, and Nanna/Sin is not especially known as a strong warrior. However, Gabriel is the patron saint of messengers, and has been shown delivering messages of great importance in religious texts. Possible relation there. If Gabriel is Enlil's "strongman," and related to Michael/Nergal in some capacity, I'd suspect Gabriel is derived from Ninurta in some capacity.

Raphael - Name derives from rapa'a and El, suggesting that the meaning is not "God is my healer" but rather "El's Healer." Only one of Enlil's sons was a god of healing, that being Ninazu, also an underworld-related deity. Intriguingly, Raphael's name shares roots with the Rephaim, thought by some scholars to be long-dead ancestors called upon for healing and blessings. This lends to a connection between the Rephaim and Ninazu.

Uriel or Auriel - Aside from the common "El" aspect, this name derives from a root meaning "light, flame, understanding." Indicating the physical and metaphysical "light" of El. If Gabriel is not Nanna/Sin, but instead Ninurta, then the moon deity of wisdom has a much stronger affiliation with Auriel.

Satan - The accuser. Representing a figure who opposes you in the name of justice, likely has relationship to the figure Utu/Shamash, the solar deity associated with heroism and justice. Hebrew references to the sun use "light" as a euphemism, since the Sun is a sign of God's power. Are Auriel and Satan related? The same person? Or just a coincidence?

Asmodeus - "Aeshma-deiwos" the wrath god, or god of wrath. Between this and the assignment of lust to Asmodeus, I think a less biased portrayal would be "god of passion." Inanna is the Sumerian goddess representing passion, love, and war, among other attributes.

Belphegor - Aspect of Horus. Horus has been variably related to Anu, Enlil, or Ninurta. I think a better way to look at it might be that Horus the Elder is Enlil, whereas Horus the Younger is Ninurta. Possibly.

Leviathan - Livyathan possibly derives from Litanu, a derivative of Lotan. Lotan was a serpent who served the god Yam. As Yam greatly resembles Nammu/Tiamat in this situation, it is possible that Lotan is either some lesser servant (and Leviathan as a prince should be regarded as a reference to Yam instead), or Lotan itself was an extension of Yam's being. Therefore, Leviathan is Nammu/Tiamat.

Mammon - Mistakingly regarded as a personification of greed. Actually literally riches. If a great being has attached itself to this notion, or to all riches, the best Sumerian candidate would be Lamashtu. Though really, Lamashtu was more a thief of life, known for drinking blood and stealing babies. The greediest of the gods was again Inanna, known for fabulous wealth, favoring wealthy mortals, and slain by the Anunnaki for the greed she exhibited in her journey to the Underworld of Kur. My best speculation is that Lamashtu may be the same as Nammu/Tiamat, or an extension thereof. So either Mammon is Leviathan, or Mammon is Asmodeus.

Beelzebub - A very confusing one, but I think the origin is simple. People have been trying to figure out which "Baal," which lord god, was described as the lord of flies. I think it's very likely a reference to Pazuzu, demon king of the air who brings locusts and drought. Often invoked to cast out Lamashtu.

Lucifer - Given information above, and the conflation of Satan and Lucifer, I would say that either they are two separate people (and Lucifer/Auriel are the same person), or Lucifer and Satan are the same person.

Please share your thoughts on the accuracy and inaccuracy of what I've put forward, and remember, I'm not confident about any of this.
 

Roma

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El - Thought of as a name for the Jewish God, actually a regional variant of the name Enlil.
My own view is that the El as in El Elyon, refers to tall as in Ilu. Ilu seems to be Sumerian for god and for tall - the gods being rather tall - even titantic (90 meters).

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Thus El Elyon can be translated either as God of Gods or Tall of the Tall Ones - The Most High. He is also known to the Egyptians as An, the god of millions of years in his boat of millions of years.

It seems that the gods, unlike their human cousins, do not stop growing and thus the oldest (most senior) god is the tallest and is looked up to.
 

Roma

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Yah/Yahweh/Jehovah - Also thought of as a name for the Jewish God, actually regional variants of the name Ea, or Enki.

This is a bit tricky as Yahweh is/was a storm/mountain god yet Ea is Sumerian for "house in the water" - rather like Buck House and White House

Here he is in his underwater house - in the Apsu (the abyss). The Apsu was said to be the freshwater underworld ocean. About 10 years ago scientists determined that there is perhaps 3 times as much fresh water inside the planet as salt water in the surface oceans.

Perhaps Ea/Enki is still here

apsu-shamash-ea-green-fig-19-p-27.jpg



Ea was the breeder of humans while Yahweh only inherited the people of Jacob.
 

Brixgh

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I agree with you WalkersofSorrow, these names originate from older cultures, and some of those names even maybe for the same entity. The position of these entities even they have older roots is modified by JCI and still to that day continues. . For example, the Assyrian nomenclature is ambiguous and the “demon” (udug=utukku) is defined as a neutral entity rather than understood through our categories of “good” or “bad”. and hence the boundaries between “demons” and “angels” were permeable in the origin.
Even in the JCI tradition, the devil originally belonged to the divine council (Job 1-2; Zacharia 3), before opposing God. For some that the devil as a character was inspired by the messengers/accusers who worked in the Persian court; like counselors to The King.

the word demon for example originates from the Greek "Daemon(daimon) ". In the Greek language, the adjective "daimonios " became a simple synonym of “marvelous - amazing”.

They are the beings of higher dimensions and they may cooperate like us IMO. Thye can be bad too or good. Even the definition of good and bad are somewhat subjective. Think about it.

We indeed have lost our original culture to Christian-Abrahamic aggression and are bound to look at everything from the duality perspective. Yes, even duality exists in some ways it's not the absolute truth. I do not think they are bound by that duality at all and hence some of them would be the same entities and under different conditions may have different names. Black and white are not the only colors. There are many colors and shades.
 

Roma

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the devil originally belonged to the divine council
In the Sumerian account the Prince of Peace and the Prince of Darkness are/were the sons of the Most High (Anu). The Prince of Darkness being by the wife (rather than a concubine) would inherit and therefore was in charge of the Earth - to keep him away from the kingdom of heaven where Anu feared being overthrown.
 

Alfher

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Sigh.

Deconstruction Lesson #1:

Stop trying to forcefully cognate deities and lore. Saying “this deity is that deity” is usually just wrong, and not only that…

This practice of trying to equate different cultures from a perspective of universalism by taking deities and lore out their historic cultural context…that’s colonizer shit. That’s racist shit. That shit’s been used as a tool of cultural genocide for thousands of years, including by the Israelites who made the stories of the Bible, because they didn’t want you to know about the peoples they fought to conquer and destroy.

Stop it. Learn about Decolonization and Religious Deconstruction properly and work on yourselves.

Yes, some cultures had really close ties and some deities are the same beings worshipped by different groups of people….but the WAY those people worshipped, the local cultural context, the local lore…..all of that can vary by a LOT and that shit can be VERY important.

Just stop. Learn how to analyze the literary and archeological record properly, in historic context, and stop conjecturing blindly. It does more harm than good to everyone involved

That said…

If you want to learn about the other deities in the Bible, the source you are looking for is Canaanite religion, not Sumerian. They are related, but different, and those difference are important because the Bible directly references Canaanite sources as it’s influence.

The Elohim are the Canaanite Pantheon, the “Children of El.” El is The Creator deity, The Father in Heaven, whose most common epithets are El Elyon (Most High) and Shaddai (Almighty).

Most of the other deities referenced in the Bible come directly from the Canaanite pantheon, because that’s where the Ancient Israelites lived and who they interacted with. Asherah was also El’s wife, I’ve recently learned, before the Israelites stole her and said she was Yahweh’s wife…before they decided she wasn’t and tried to erase her from history entirely.

In 2 Kings 3, Yahweh leads the Israelites to commit genocide in Moab. In the end, the King of Moab petitions his national deity, Chemosh, by sacrificing his son. 2 Kings 3 says that there’s Divine Fury, and then the Israelites are pushed back and lose the war. Chemosh kicked Yahweh’s ass.

interestingly enough, archeologists found what has been dubbed The Moab Stone, which is one of the few sources that confirms a biblical story with archeological evidence. Except the Moab people didn’t say anything about having to sacrifice a child to Chemosh, and the Moab Stone also says the Israelites were tyrant rulers who were demanding huge amounts of tribute.

Chemosh is one of Sons of El and Asherah in Canaanite religion.

Ba’al is a title, meaning Lord. There can be a lot of Ba’als as such, but there are two main ones of importance. Baal Zabul is the Lord of Princes among the Elohim. His name was corrupted to Beelzebub by the ancient Israelites, Lord of Filth/Flies, as an insult to the nation who worshipped him. The other, “The” Baal, is Baal Hadad. Lord of The Earth.

Look up the Baal Cycle to learn how Baal Hadad became the Lord of The Earth, and what happened after. This ancient story that describes the changing of the seasons is not only one of the key sources for the mythology of “The Fall,” but the ancient Harvest Festival related to this myth is likely the actual origin of Passover as well.

And there’s a lot more.

Canaanite religion had a huge and direct influence on the ancient Israelites whose descendants would write the Torah, and a lot of things in the Old Testament make more sense when you understand the Canaanite history and cultural context.
 

WalkerOfSorrow

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No, I am not going to be spoken to that way.

The Sumerian people, as evidenced by the earliest archaeological record, predated the proto-semitic peoples by at least 2000 years. There are proven links from their pantheon to the Hittite, Hurrian, anatolian, and indus river valley cultural belief systems, which chronology indicates assimilated cultural attributes from the Sumerians. Only ancient egypt was even a rough parallel, and while their most ancient religions have more in common with ancient chinese, they began adopting mesopotamian ideas later due to cultural admixture.

It's not being a "colonizer," it's knowing history. There were spirits of many kinds all over the world, even before the Sumerians, but the crossovers of (at least) human depiction of them indicate a Sumerian origin for the larger, common belief systems. Thus if any of the accounts are to be relied upon, I'd say the closer you get to Sumerian, the less corruption there should be in the account.

It's all moot though. My recent communication with these higher beings is showing a lack of understanding on the Sumerians' part. Not sure how deep it goes just yet.
 
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Alfher does have a few points, as well as you do ... context is everything really, in my humble opinion.
That said, I also think you have done exceedingly well in looking up all this info and comparing them.
If you think of correspondence tables, than how could that be racist? History is not in its self racist, just history.
 

WalkerOfSorrow

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Alfher does have a few points, as well as you do ... context is everything really, in my humble opinion.
It depends what position you're tackling it from. Alfher appears to be addressing the moral concerns of respecting cultural differences in belief. "Let people have their gods" in a manner of speaking. I, on the other hand, come at this treating these ancient, time-withered spirits as peers. I want them to be understood not as differing views say, but as they innately are. If they've adopted some different traits over the years, that's one thing. But if many listeners heard versions of one story, and developed their own differing pictures of a single being, I don't want the corrupt version overshadowing truth. I'm working on meeting each of them to learn the truth first hand, but I wouldn't be shocked if few here took my word at face value.

Alfher, if your perspective is one of respecting and understanding cultures, I value that. But my speculation was to get at the heart of the matter, not treat tertiary perspectives as being equally valid to the unfiltered truth. Different subject material in my eyes. If I've misrepresented your views let me know.
 

Roma

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Only ancient egypt was even a rough parallel, and while their most ancient religions have more in common with ancient chinese
As it is recorded, both Egypt and China were founded by a brother-sister couple that were depicted as part serpent.

There are Masonic connections with both pairs.
 

WalkerOfSorrow

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As it is recorded, both Egypt and China were founded by a brother-sister couple that were depicted as part serpent.

There are Masonic connections with both pairs.
A worthy note. So perhaps the first pantheons of egypt and china were not sourced from mesopotamian visitors but from visitors to africa. Possibly china as well, if the visitors came there after the ancestral chinese arrived.
 

Roma

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I'm working on meeting each of them to learn the truth first hand
Years ago it seemed that Osiris turned up in our group meditation. I was not attracted to him and a friend emailed not to trust him.

The gods as we see them from Sumer were a military occupation force come to extract gold.

Each ancient Egyptian town had its own local god in charge of brewing for the gods posted there. That sounds military too.
 

8Lou1

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It also sounds very odinist in the sense that in valhalla warroirs are given a lush banquet with lots of mead poured by valkyries.
 

Roma

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As I recall it was Zechariah Sitchin that made a strong case that there was only one set of gods at a time on this planet - until the next war in the heavens replaced them.

Sitchin matched gods in different cultures by actions and characteristics. In one case he showed that a god disappeared from the Middle East at the same time as a very similar god appeared in South America.

If the ancient accounts are correct, the gods had a variety of flying machines and so could travel where they wished.

We are also told in the Old Testament that the Most High divided the peoples of the world amongst various gods. The gods that were given human groups were the lord gods of those groups. Jehovah was only given the clan of Jacob. Jehovah forbade the humans to follow other gods, with threats to the descendants of those that disobeyed him.

The lord gods used their humans to wage wars to obtain the territory of other lords. Arguably that manipulation has never ceased.
 

8Lou1

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you could also take it different and use castenda's half real/half story way of working and understand who those beings were ,whom his tacher told about. his teacher was in actuality real and was a shaman with a lot of herb knowledge and access to the realms. he told about the taking over of the world by evil warlocks and that there was no good one left. the ancient ones before that time used magick very differently and werent that destructive to the universe, earth and its beings.

it seems the accounts you talk about are correct, but heavily shrouded and spread all over the world in different myths, stories, treasures, subconsciousnesses of people, etc.
 

Alfher

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Sichen is a fraud. His translations, which are the basis for everything else he said, are just plain wrong.

Ya’ll really need to learn how to identify what is and isn’t a reliable source.

No, I am not going to be spoken to that way.

Yes, you are.

And you will continue to be spoken to that way for as long as you insist on behaving as an arrogant brat.

Especially if you’re going to get offended over respectful education just because it contradicts you, like some god damn Karen.

Get your shit together. You are capable of better and better is expected of you.

The Sumerian people, as evidenced by the earliest archaeological record, predated the proto-semitic peoples by at least 2000 years.

And you think nothing important happened over the course of two thousand years? Do you have any idea how many generations that was, in a time and place where people rarely lived past 40? Do you have any idea how many wars were fought, how many trades were made, how much cultural exchange and cultural evolution happened?

Have you thought at all about how much the gods and spirits themselves learned and evolved over the course of two thousand years, and how they chose to present themselves in different forms to different people for a reason? The Sumerians were not “wrong,” the world now is just dramatically different than it was 5,000 years ago, and the gods have adapted as we have.

Older does not mean better, and similar does not mean same. Context is important. With context, you can show clearly where beings evolve from one form into another, and you can also see clearly where there are no connections at all. Such as the Greek Aphrodite having no historic connection to Innana or Ishtar, despite many people saying they’re the same because of the similar Venusian qualities.

Similar. Does. Not. Mean. Same.

Your colonizer synchretism is harmful to everyone involved. It is harmful to you, because your arrogance is blocking you from learning the actual truth of the history you are butchering so you can confirmation bias your own gnosis.

It is harmful to everyone around you, because you are confidently spreading misinformation.

And it is harmful to the gods and spirits you are trying to understand, because completely ignoring their actual history and stories in order to force them to fit into your made up little boxes is profoundly more disrespectful to me and to them than anything I have said or will say to you.


Alfher, if your perspective is one of respecting and understanding cultures, I value that. But my speculation was to get at the heart of the matter, not treat tertiary perspectives as being equally valid to the unfiltered truth. Different subject material in my eyes. If I've misrepresented your views let me know.

My perspective is one of understanding and respecting the objective scientific processes of archeology and history.

There is a proper way to objectively analyze the literary and archeological record to check the validity of personal gnosis, and every single deity or spirit in my personal praxis who has told me something important has guided me to literary and archeological evidence for that point of view existing outside of my own mind at some point in history.

Every single time spirits or gods try to profess a “special truth” to me, it has turned out to be a lie. No individuals personal experience is ever going be superior to thousands of years of other priests and magicians consistently experiencing something different. Ever.

As for you, not only are you engaging in standard praxis for racists and colonizers by trying to synchronize different deities and cultures just because they look similar to you, you’re also just plain making shit up and conjecturing blindly to force things to conform to your views. Which is also some colonizer bullshit.

Almost everything you said in the OP is just plain wrong, and if you did even a little bit of genuine research you would know that. Lucifer as Uriel? Really?

Learn how to actually research and show reliable sources to verify your experiences and ideas or keep your made up beliefs to yourself.

The occult community already has enough misinformation spread through it. Especially regarding the beings we work with and their origins. They don’t want anymore of this made up bullshit spreading either, because their actual old stories are far more impressive than anything you or others have made up in the new age.
 

WalkerOfSorrow

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Oh, like anything about the way you've been speaking has been polite or respectful from the beginning. If you knew a single thing about who you're speaking to, you would hopefully realize your misplaced blame and foolish windmill tilting. But I'm not doing that today. I don't have the energy I used to.
 

Alfher

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Ah yes, the old “do you know who I am” trope.

How appropriate.

You are not special here, princess. There are plenty of people both more experienced and more educated than you, and your blind arrogance does you no favors.

Either learn how to research properly and show reliable sources to verify your gnosis, or keep your harmful made up beliefs to yourself.

Because every single time you run into an actual scholar or a genuine initiate, we can and will show reliable historic sources that contradict your modern synchretism.
 

SkullTraill

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@Alfher I'm sure drawing connections between dieties in different cultures does not instantly categorize someone as a "racist colonizer". Someone is just sharing their thoughts on similarities. They're not forcing others to think that all these pairs are in fact the same diety. IMO drawing connections and mentioning similarities is fine as long as someone is not using that to justify forced cultural absorption/takeover or some kind of information-apartheid.

Aside from that though, rest of y'all could do with getting a little less offended. This is a open, liberal, discussion forum. If you put something out there, be prepared to be challenged. Be prepared to defend your ideas. I'm not going to coddle you all when you get your feelings hurt because someone went a little hard on you for sharing your opinion. That's the nature of the internet, and that's the nature of putting your ideas out there.

This is not and will not ever be some safe space where you are guaranteed to never get offended. If someone is outright berating, insulting, threatening or harassing you, then I will step in. Until then, please unknot thine undergarments.

If you're really sick of someone's bullshit, click their profile, and click "ignore". Or just poke some fun back, or let it go and focus on replying to those who agree with you, if you'd like an echo chamber, better yet, just speak to the person who's upset you and address your concerns. And if none of that works, take a short break from the site, and come back refreshed, wounds healed, skin thicker.

In any case, there's no need for any holier-than-thou shit nor is there any need for snowflake shit. We're all liberal adults here.
 
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