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Book Discussion Buying pricy books, rare or not - an author question

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Diluculo_DelFuego

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As for research means, I can see buying procy books for doing so, not to be trendy or edgy however. So authors, when you write, what do you ask as a price per page? Also, as a magic student, should you acquire as much knowledge as possible, even if it means not eating by buying a pricy book?
 
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I’m not an author but I can say that if you don’t eat, you won’t have the glucose levels needed to even process what you read.

It may be worth looking at the local library. They sometimes have these rare books and also have a vast network of libraries who will send books back and forth between locations so members can take them out.

I’d sooner see people eat well so they can have a more fruitful life and acquire the wealth needed to reach those knowledge goals
 

Irish Bard

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As for research means, I can see buying procy books for doing so, not to be trendy or edgy however. So authors, when you write, what do you ask as a price per page? Also, as a magic student, should you acquire as much knowledge as possible, even if it means not eating by buying a pricy book?
Hhhmmm

I think that's a little extreme lol. May I ask if you have a specific area of study in mind or is this a general question?

I'll be interested in responses re the Authoring side as I'm preparing to self publish an illustrated anthology of poetry soon...
 

Alfher

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It depends on what is “pricy” to you.

I’m used to seeing books worth hundreds or even thousands of dollars, nevermind the literally priceless books and manuscripts that some others I know are used to handling deep in the carefully controlled study rooms of major Archival Libraries.

So to me $50 or $60 for an academic tome on something I’m interested in isnt pricy at all, and there’s plenty of books far cheaper than that.

…you shouldn’t starve yourself, though. 😛 See if you can use Interlibrary Loan to get what you want, or save up in ways that don’t hurt yourself.
 

Diluculo_DelFuego

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Hhhmmm

I think that's a little extreme lol. May I ask if you have a specific area of study in mind or is this a general question?

I'll be interested in responses re the Authoring side as I'm preparing to self publish an illustrated anthology of poetry soon...
Well, I appreciate the concern about nutrition, but after being kicked out of the IT world, all I have open to me are minimum wage jobs and massive debt. Thsu, I cant just shell out a months rent for a book that might suck but it pricey because its rare.
 

Diluculo_DelFuego

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I appreciuate the responses. I do. My concern though is why authors charge an arm and a leg for something that might be 50% useful at best.
 
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I appreciuate the responses. I do. My concern though is why authors charge an arm and a leg for something that might be 50% useful at best.
I see what you’re saying now.

Sometimes the author isn’t actually making much at all and the publisher is doing the pricing. I know that when people publish via Amazon, through the print on demand system, Amazon takes 90%. When I found that out I started actually looking if there’s a way to buy directly from the authors site before actually using Amazon. On the flip side, it’s an easy 10% for a book that is out there for all time now to be residually streaming income.

I often think of how great it would be to know a handful of magicians to share resources and be able to discuss what has been learned, in person.

I hope that community in a local sense becomes a thing again after the last few decades of seemingly being divided.
 

Alfher

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I appreciuate the responses. I do. My concern though is why authors charge an arm and a leg for something that might be 50% useful at best.

It depends largely on the book and the author. There are plenty of books in the standard $15-30 range, from people like Jason Miller teaching basics.

The expensive books are usually either rare out of print books (especially out of print rare, old editions) or really big academic books that hold a lot more value than the average chapter book.

Those like Dr. Stephen Skinner, for example, spend years working on their big books that cost $50 or $60. They travel to different countries, have to go through special processes to get access to library archives, and dig up medieval manuscripts of unpublished grimoires or unpublished versions of known grimoires. Then they have to spend a lot of time and effort translating the grimoire into usable modern English, go through the editing and publishing process, and try to hold a standard of high quality hardcover books that are meant to be intensely studied for years.

After the higher quality material costs, publisher cut, and other expenses authors usually only make a single digit percentage in royalties. And publishing in a niche like occultism doesn’t lend to great profits with such small margins.

So really, usually, the high cost is just the cost of publishing a good well made book.

And because they do that hard work anyway, we end up with to access valuable tomes that have remained buried sometimes for centuries. Things like The Goetia of Dr. Rudd or the complete Ars Notoria. Skinner even published the very first real book on Feng Shui in English decades ago.

But there are a lot of resources available online for free.

And like I said, check your library. If you’re in the US, they can check the Interlibrary Loan network, and if any public library in the entire US has a book you want they’ll ship it to you for free and let you check it out normally for free with your library card. There’s surely something similar in other countries with decent public library systems.

Those big books are not meant for people who find them 50% useful, so you don’t have to pursue them out of obligation. Unless you have a special interest in serious grimoire tradition, or things like the PGM, most books you probably don’t need to pay more than $30 for and plenty you can find used for $12 or less.
 

Diluculo_DelFuego

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I see what you’re saying now.

Sometimes the author isn’t actually making much at all and the publisher is doing the pricing. I know that when people publish via Amazon, through the print on demand system, Amazon takes 90%. When I found that out I started actually looking if there’s a way to buy directly from the authors site before actually using Amazon. On the flip side, it’s an easy 10% for a book that is out there for all time now to be residually streaming income.

I often think of how great it would be to know a handful of magicians to share resources and be able to discuss what has been learned, in person.

I hope that community in a local sense becomes a thing again after the last few decades of seemingly being divided.
90%? Wow! That is a ripoff for the authors. I know I once tried buying from used bookstores and independent publishers. Amazon is great for most things, but that is a smack in the face to most authors, I would think anyway.
 

Diluculo_DelFuego

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It depends largely on the book and the author. There are plenty of books in the standard $15-30 range, from people like Jason Miller teaching basics.

The expensive books are usually either rare out of print books (especially out of print rare, old editions) or really big academic books that hold a lot more value than the average chapter book.

Those like Dr. Stephen Skinner, for example, spend years working on their big books that cost $50 or $60. They travel to different countries, have to go through special processes to get access to library archives, and dig up medieval manuscripts of unpublished grimoires or unpublished versions of known grimoires. Then they have to spend a lot of time and effort translating the grimoire into usable modern English, go through the editing and publishing process, and try to hold a standard of high quality hardcover books that are meant to be intensely studied for years.

After the higher quality material costs, publisher cut, and other expenses authors usually only make a single digit percentage in royalties. And publishing in a niche like occultism doesn’t lend to great profits with such small margins.

So really, usually, the high cost is just the cost of publishing a good well made book.

And because they do that hard work anyway, we end up with to access valuable tomes that have remained buried sometimes for centuries. Things like The Goetia of Dr. Rudd or the complete Ars Notoria. Skinner even published the very first real book on Feng Shui in English decades ago.

But there are a lot of resources available online for free.

And like I said, check your library. If you’re in the US, they can check the Interlibrary Loan network, and if any public library in the entire US has a book you want they’ll ship it to you for free and let you check it out normally for free with your library card. There’s surely something similar in other countries with decent public library systems.

Those big books are not meant for people who find them 50% useful, so you don’t have to pursue them out of obligation. Unless you have a special interest in serious grimoire tradition, or things like the PGM, most books you probably don’t need to pay more than $30 for and plenty you can find used for $12 or less.
I see. Thanks all for the input. This makes perfect sense, its paying for their time and their resources to produce said book. I will in fact check out interlibrary loans. Even the University of Michigan Graduate Library before sealing off access to non grad students was a thrill, I came across a lot of interesting material such as a Babylonian Bible.
 

Diluculo_DelFuego

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Well, time for me to get back to reading Buckland (Spirit Communications and Complete Witchcraft) and Kraig (Modern Magick) among a few others like Shemhamphoresh, Celtic Magic, and Complete Magicians Tables.
 

SkullTraill

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If dissemination of knowledge was an author's only goal, then a modestly priced ebook would serve that purpose.

That's not always the only goal though. Sometimes the goal is to create something physical and "cool" – you see this sometimes with books that have a lot of focus put into the visuals and aesthetics.

Sometimes they are collectors items, and a lot of effort has been put into being particular about the production process, materials, etc, which can get quite expensive.

Sometimes the author just wants to make some money. Or sometimes it's the publisher, as others have said.
 

BachausMaximus

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I have always been interested in the occult and dabbled with surprising and frightening results as a teenager. As an antique map collector I attend regular map and book shows. The first "pricey" books I saw in person were Trident Books Demonographia and Ars Notaria in the early 2000's. At the time I was focused on maps from the 1400's to the mid 1700's. The books were going for over $300 apiece and I was amazed that such small recently published books fetched those prices. The leather bindings feel wonderful in the hand and I started looking into Ars Obscura, Trident Books and other publishers. Once I started asking for books on the occult it was amazing how many small dealers had a few copies and I was hooked.

I should have recognized the risk and run away since I now have books valued over $1,000 and am on the subscriber list for Xoanon, Scarlet Imprint, Ixaxaar and others. Personally, I find the craftsmanship and art of the physical book very satisfying, especially the deluxe and special editions. Often I will buy a deluxe version and a standard edition so as not to damage the deluxe from reading them too much. The idea of books a talismanic objects really resonates with me and I purchased nice books even when money was tight (2009-20011 pretty much destroyed by business). Although it seems to me that many people never read any books, for the general public the belief in the power, importance and value of physical magical books is real.

I have never sold a book but paid the folks at Miskatonic Books to estimate the value of my library just for insurance purposes.
 

subspeciez

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I have always been interested in the occult and dabbled with surprising and frightening results as a teenager. As an antique map collector I attend regular map and book shows. The first "pricey" books I saw in person were Trident Books Demonographia and Ars Notaria in the early 2000's. At the time I was focused on maps from the 1400's to the mid 1700's. The books were going for over $300 apiece and I was amazed that such small recently published books fetched those prices. The leather bindings feel wonderful in the hand and I started looking into Ars Obscura, Trident Books and other publishers. Once I started asking for books on the occult it was amazing how many small dealers had a few copies and I was hooked.

I should have recognized the risk and run away since I now have books valued over $1,000 and am on the subscriber list for Xoanon, Scarlet Imprint, Ixaxaar and others. Personally, I find the craftsmanship and art of the physical book very satisfying, especially the deluxe and special editions. Often I will buy a deluxe version and a standard edition so as not to damage the deluxe from reading them too much. The idea of books a talismanic objects really resonates with me and I purchased nice books even when money was tight (2009-20011 pretty much destroyed by business). Although it seems to me that many people never read any books, for the general public the belief in the power, importance and value of physical magical books is real.

I have never sold a book but paid the folks at Miskatonic Books to estimate the value of my library just for insurance purposes.
Have you read Svartkonst from Ixaxaar?
I’ve been interested in reading it but it’s expensive and OOP
 

The Golden Jackal

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Some spell books are rare and even pdf copies priced high but they are better. The prices are set by the market on your own works, today I dont believe selling books is the thing but personal lessons of some sort, the book craft is history online everthing could be free. Being a life long student who went without may things for magic going without food is nothing or should be your first magical accomplishment. First you protect yourself because most economic conditions are conditions of rank, its not the usefulness of your money they want but to measure your standing in their view (society). If they cant hurt you you can go without anything or ser down untill you are rich, having the common ethics in the end will stop your pursuit and leave you with idols (death).
 

Öwnchef

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These demons can and will easily ruin you.
 

BachausMaximus

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Have you read Svartkonst from Ixaxaar?
I’ve been interested in reading it but it’s expensive and OOP
Sorry for the late reply, I got injured in an accident and have been focused on being able to walk again. No, I haven't read Svartkonst but it looks great and right up my alley. The lesser known and "smaller" spirits have always interested me and seem to be easier for me to access. Have you read any other similar works?
 

Öwnchef

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Sometimes the author just wants to make some money. Or sometimes it's the publisher, as others have said.
This. Bandits that tried to make cash on promising titles on "books". Now we have pirates that steal them from these gangsters, lol. Sometimes life is good, because now you can take a brief look on this shit before it goes to the dump.
 

BachausMaximus

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Personally I don't have a problem with authors or publishers making money on their wisdom and labor. For me, it is much easier to utilize printed materials compared to electronic and I appreciate the opportunity. Running a business or even a non-profit can be very expensive and I am glad there are people out there who are willing to cater to us as a group. Scarlet Imprint makes their works available in different formats and price points that are accessible to more people. My policy is to pre-order books from authors and publishers I support so that they can manifest the works I want. Ouroboros Press is a great example of a publisher that makes quality available through pre-order.

What bothers me is when folks pay for pre-orders that never arrive or there is insufficient communication. This hurts the entire industry as folks are now scared to pay for pre-orders. Patience can pay off, I waited years for my deluxe edition of Khiazmos from Xoanon. It worried me when my copy had not arrived and I started to see copies for sale online. My communications got no response until I used the Three Hands Press email. When Daniel Schulke did respond, he apologized and explained the reason for the delays. They ended up sending me a better edition than I ordered, a special edition, #2 of 4 copies along with a sigilized apology for the delay. It worked out in the end.
 

Öwnchef

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I understand. There is big money in that business. Just do not overdo it. Friend.
 
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