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I have many times wondered how secret societies work and what is the secret that they hold,
this made me thinking about what it would take to start a brand new secret society,
one which would be either about occult or about domination or both.
If you would start a secret society, what would be the aim of your society?
What would be the secret about?
How would you attract new members and based on what criteria would you select members?
How should your society be organized, ex. should it be centralized or decentralized, online or real life?
Should there be a custom letter or similar to encrypt communication?
How much it would cost and how much effort it would take to maintain it?
This are all question you would likely face already in the beginning.
But do these questions distract you?, or would you try it anyway?
What are your thoughts? would you start a new society or would prefer to join existing one?
I've wanted to start one, but given my track record of self employment, it's probably safer I'd join an existing order.
In regard to creating a new order:
If you would start a secret society, what would be the aim of your society?
Reintegration of the human race.
What would be the secret about?
It's a secret.
How would you attract new members and based on what criteria would you select members?
Through platforms such as this. Seeking seekers, not worldly robots.
How should your society be organized, ex. should it be centralized or decentralized, online or real life?
Real life. Not sure beyond that. If fairness is key, then there would be opportunities for all.
Should there be a custom letter or similar to encrypt communication?
Yes. No unless not a join us letter. Secrets and crypto.
How much it would cost and how much effort it would take to maintain it?
Out of my league, for darn sure.
An idea a friend and I kicked around was one I'd thought about for over a year. A Magick lodge, where you come in, pay for time, do your working, and leave. The organization would handle shields wards and nightly banishing.
I have many times wondered how secret societies work and what is the secret that they hold,
this made me thinking about what it would take to start a brand new secret society,
one which would be either about occult or about domination or both.
If you would start a secret society, what would be the aim of your society?
What would be the secret about?
How would you attract new members and based on what criteria would you select members?
How should your society be organized, ex. should it be centralized or decentralized, online or real life?
Should there be a custom letter or similar to encrypt communication?
How much it would cost and how much effort it would take to maintain it?
This are all question you would likely face already in the beginning.
But do these questions distract you?, or would you try it anyway?
What are your thoughts? would you start a new society or would prefer to join existing one?
I'm currently translating an old document from a secret society. It's really interesting, but I'm really slow and the text is very hard to read. With today's access to the world 's libraries I'm able to add some very illuminating footnotes here and there.
With regards to joining one: I don't really see the point in it anymore beyond feeling part of a group (which is nice of course).
If I start my own secret club will you join?
Problem with real life community is that people are spread around the world, even in a single country.
if you whish something big then virtual meetings in addition to real life is unavoidable, otherwise you know, the excuses are, I have to work and don't have time, I have a family, I can't afford it etc. so it's difficult to gather people in one place.
An idea a friend and I kicked around was one I'd thought about for over a year. A Magick lodge, where you come in, pay for time, do your working, and leave. The organization would handle shields wards and nightly banishing.
A magic lodge sounds very interesting! that's exactly something in my mind.
My idea would be to build an occult group where everybody would be desiring to achieve same goal, and for this to work there must be an inspiration that drives forward, an inspiration which makes you strive to give your time for the group to improve it.
A knowledge able to transform this world to the goals of the group.
Thus the secret would be that knowledge or inspiration which everybody naturally wants and gives the group power.
I'm currently translating an old document from a secret society. It's really interesting, but I'm really slow and the text is very hard to read. With today's access to the world 's libraries I'm able to add some very illuminating footnotes here and there.
There's so much chaos and darkness already though. Even if my curses have a greater succes ratio than my blessings, i still want to make the world believe i am a son of Light
free masons are no longer secret, their ultimate secret that they hold so jealousy has become well known, even birds on trees sing their secret that was supposed to bring them power.
They are now on decline due to Jesuits who countered them for decades and undermined their work by sowing bad reputation about them.
There's so much chaos and darkness already though. Even if my curses have a greater succes ratio than my blessings, i still want to make the world believe i am a son of Light
I would say there is too much light, and that light is called religions which effortlessly fight against the occult for thousnads of years, yet the occult not only survived but is again on the rise, while as ironic as it is, count of believers drops every day and it's unlikely they will be able to rebuild that loss.
By redefining what's good and what's evil and by telling the truth.
Religions have imposed on us a binary model of good and evil, that is, you're good as long as you obey, and evil otherwise.
This so fundamentally wrong.
I think at some point I might have given a thought about starting a secret society, after all who doesn't enjoy the feeling of exclusivity and mystery that comes from joining something that very few can join?
But then I remembered that the introvert I am might not enjoy much socialization like that(unless the socialization part was tied to the workings/learning done in such places).
Depending on the society it can vary from secrets to become a better person up to the secret recipe of the ultimate pancake.To be fair though, most "secret" societies nowadays are more "discreet societies".People know of them even if they don't know all that happens inside them.
I think that if there are any secret societies left they're the ones no one hears about, specially not in the media.
Something simple: Achieving the peak of human existence and learning all you want to learn in order to enhance your human experience(each member would have stuff they would want to learn/develop and the society woud help them achieve these goals).
New members would be brought by previous members if/when they knew of someone that had interests that align with the society's purpose, and the criteria would be based on the candidate's past, present, actions and personality.
But most of all, their ability to keep quiet about the society rather than go around bragging about it.
The founder has all the power, the council helps with the administrative side of the society, everyone else has the same status.As for presence it certainly would be better irl(specially since some stuff is better learned/developed irl), but we would be flex as life should be convenient and online meetings take away the headache of transport.
No, anything needed to be said is said in the society.
But I would like some sort of "whistle song" with encoded messages, though it would be hard to apply that.
It would depend if we would have a physical space for it, where is it and what is in it.
Plus the cost of the materials and such to help the members in their quests.
Neither, I think.
I'm an introvert, I don't do socialization in groups, and honestly while it might seem cool the idea of something "exclusive" like that, at the end of the day the entire idea seems to elitist to me.I hate people gatekeeping stuff out of a sense of wanting to feel "special", and basically thinking that they have the morals and standing to judge who "can" and who "can't".
If people feel like that they should join clubs then.
Clubs don't have ridiculous "requirements"(some might demand a bit more in terms of wealth, your birthplace or even an affiliation of sorts towards a faith/belief/political view, but that's it), they can be about a specific interest or event or be something more broad or even for just people like "a library's club" or "school's clubs".
Secret societies are for those that want to feel special by being part of a "special club" where people-allegedly-learn about the secrets of the universe, how to achieve immortality or how to attain power.They want to feel like there's something more in their mundane lives that makes it exciting and what's more exciting than knowing a secret that few know of?
Reminds me of the Magic Towers in works of fiction.Places for mages/wizards/sorcerers to meet up, exchange ideas, research new magic and grow in power.
A magick lodge sounds interesting, specially since it appears like socializing with others wouldn't be a demand.
I feel more that religions work like this: "Good is what we say is good, evil is what we say is evil"
They put themselves on the "good side" and thus they claim that their views are good(which they can be, but we all know how most religions seem to preach peace and make war), and many of them(not all) seem to also preach about ignorance, about only listening to what your faith says and not think critically nor question anything.
Reason why many end up being against science, vaccines, medicine, journalism and etc.The blind faith ingrained in those religions turn people blind to "other options and opinions" and without those they can't realistically have a fair chance to choose what they want for themselves.Learning about occultism, about magic, is all about developing self knowledge, developing skills, becoming a better person by questioning and going after knowledge.
Their secret knowledge is straightforward to say but difficult to explain.
Basically put sacred texts of all of the religions into one box, the ultimate knowledge, and make a new God out of that.
How exactly are they be able to to do this is unknown to me but I could imagine, but that's their secret, a new world wide God.
There is a new religion (unrelated to free masons) called Baha'i faith, which in a similar fashion combines Abrahamic religions but retains original God however the one of free masons is even more aggressive by combining all possible knowledge of religions and maybe even the occult and mythology into one and producing a new God that should dominate the world and making all religions obsolete.
It's a fascinating idea because all religions and spiritual knowledge combined indeed mean a lot of knowledge, it's also interesting because people think of free masons as trying to impose a new world government, which is on it's own false, rather is new "world God" that is supposed to give them power, rather than world governments each giving up a portion of their sovereignty.
These people in Power, are at least 1000 years ahead of us. This people have technologies that are way beyond this. They just waiting for the right timelines to run these bad boys.
On the light years of technology notion, as well as the notion of putting all sacred texts in a god box, it seems ChatGTP (is that it's.name?) is already serving that function. Same with Alexa, Siri and so on.
When we had our first GPS, likely we were running antiquated technology compared to those in power.
These people in Power, are at least 1000 years ahead of us. This people have technologies that are way beyond this. They just waiting for the right timelines to run these bad boys.
Governments yes, but I don't believe secret societies run research centers or to have any influence on governments.
I think they're after power over people instead of power over governments.
The idea of free masons is a good example, sadly I didn't bookmark sites to share, but a lot can be concluded from their logo which is "G" and the square and compasses.
"G" stands for God and square and compasses depict great architect.
What is also attractive is that their new God is not God of faith but God of reason and logic, they don't need to convert people or to make them believe, instead it's reason that triggers affirmance of their group.
I don't know though if and how they project this knowledge to outer world, but I suspect atheism may be one of the forms or a precondition to lay out new idea.
Governments yes, but I don't believe secret societies run research centers or to have any influence on governments.
I think they're after power over people instead of power over governments.
The idea of free masons is a good example, sadly I didn't bookmark sites to share, but a lot can be concluded from their logo which is "G" and the square and compasses.
"G" stands for God and square and compasses depict great architect.
What is also attractive is that their new God is not God of faith but God of reason and logic, they don't need to convert people or to make them believe, instead it's reason that triggers affirmance of their group.
I don't know though if and how they project this knowledge to outer world, but I suspect atheism may be one of the forms or a precondition to lay out new idea.
God is the Great Architect, but yes G stands for God, and Geometry. Unfortunately you got everything elses wrong. It baffles the mind how people in this day in age still get so much about the craft wrong. Freemasonry is a system of morality veiled in allegory and illustrated by symbols. We take men who are already doing the work to become better versions of themselves, and we give them certain working tools and the wisdom to use them, that they might indeed become better men.
We aren't trying to have power over people or government. We have no interest in that, seeking no influence over the political sphere or worldly trends. We help men, rooted in relationship with their God, do the work of that God in their communities. We believe we must be the change we want to see in the world by giving ourselves to living in alignment of the light.
What do you mean our God is not the God of faith? The three chief virtues of Mason are Faith, Hope and Charity. -and when I say our God I'm speaking for the sake of all that is Holy. Freemasonry has no God itself. We are not religion, but a again a system of morality. We recognize and seek God's guidance in all our undertakings yet we do not teach that it is our or any mans place to define God and that for religious instruction you are to confer with your church, synagogue, mosque, medicine council or whomever you confer with in your religion.
So when you talk of any kind of Masonic God, you show your foolishness and ignorance.
Reason and logic are indeed important. We need to be able to reason and infer, as to be able to take care of Gods creation and to protect ourselves, our families and communities. These faculties God gave us to be our brothers keepers. These things we learn in order to serve. Our trust is not in these, these are the means giving by whom we trust.
How do project this knowledge? We do most cast pearls before swine, but knock and if you are found worthy, it shall be opened unto you.
Lastly, no atheist can be made a Mason. This is according to our landmarks; no legitimate lodge will initiate an Atheist. So the notion that spreading Atheism is part of our great scheme, is assinine.
Their secret knowledge is straightforward to say but difficult to explain.
Basically put sacred texts of all of the religions into one box, the ultimate knowledge, and make a new God out of that.
How exactly are they be able to to do this is unknown to me but I could imagine, but that's their secret, a new world wide God.
There is a new religion (unrelated to free masons) called Baha'i faith, which in a similar fashion combines Abrahamic religions but retains original God however the one of free masons is even more aggressive by combining all possible knowledge of religions and maybe even the occult and mythology into one and producing a new God that should dominate the world and making all religions obsolete.
It's a fascinating idea because all religions and spiritual knowledge combined indeed mean a lot of knowledge, it's also interesting because people think of free masons as trying to impose a new world government, which is on it's own false, rather is new "world God" that is supposed to give them power, rather than world governments each giving up a portion of their sovereignty.
No....we dont combine all possible knowledge of all religions. Have any of you ever set foot in a Masonic Lodge? All of our work comes out of the KJV Bible though yeah, Southern Jurisdiction Scottish Rite has a spiffy Egyptian degree which influenced the Golden Dawn Neophyte Ritual. It amazes me though how even on a forum dedicated to occult knowledge, you guys are parroting Leo Taxil, Chick Tracts, The Catholic Church and the Satanic Panic.
If you want a real conversation on Freemasonry, and yes there are things I simply can not tell you, we can have that conversation..
To be a Mason, a man simply must believe in the existence of supreme being, recognize some part of the spirit and/or soul that is eternal, be of lawful age and coming well recommended.
The Occult heyday of Masonry was in the 1800s. We had our biggest boons after the Depression and after the first and second world wars which made us far more mainstream and far less esoteric.
We aren't trying to make all religions obsolete, you have us confused with the OTO. Most brothers are protestant Christian but we don't discriminate. Your religion or spirituality either allows you to meet our membership requirements or it doesn't.
What do you mean our God is not the God of faith? The three chief virtues of Mason are Faith, Hope and Charity. -and when I say our God I'm speaking for the sake of all that is Holy. Freemasonry has no God itself. We are not religion, but a again a system of morality. We recognize and seek God's guidance in all our undertakings yet we do not teach that it is our or any mans place to define God
If you seek God's guidance and have faith in God then how can you say "we have no God"?
If freemasonry is a system of morality, instead of a religion, then it's a philosophical movement since morality is a philosophical topic, and as such you can't say "we do not define God".
Because if morality is around God, or influenced by God, then you need to define it, and if you refuse or can't define God then we're talking about agnosticism thus you can't say to have belief in God or to seek guidance of one.
Do you see how contradictory is what you're saying?
If you seek God's guidance and have faith in God then how can you say "we have no God"?
If freemasonry is a system of morality, instead of a religion, then it's a philosophical movement since morality is a philosophical topic, and as such you can't say "we do not define God".
Because if morality is around God, or influenced by God, then you need to define it, and if you refuse or can't define God then we're talking about agnosticism thus you can't say to have belief in God or to seek guidance of one.
Do you see how contradictory is what you're saying?
There is no contradiction in what I have said, at all. Freemasonry does not give you a God to believe in as there is no Masonic God, there is only God. Each brother believes in the God of his own faith background.
Ergo, each brother believes in a Supreme Being, but Freemasonry does not dictate what that looks like. Therefore when we have a prayer before a formal meal or ask for God's guidance before any great undertaking, each brother is reaching out to God as they know and understand. A Muslim brother will be thinking of Allah, next to a Christian or Jewish brother thinking of Yahweh, next to a Hindu brother thinking of Brahma.
To be clear Freemasonry does not each that all religions are correct nor does it teach that any one religion is correct. These are theological issues and questions outside the scope of Freemasonry. It simply isn't our place.
Thus Freemasonry does have religious elements, and as Pike said each lodge can be considered a Temple of Religion while Freemasonry itself is not a Religion.
Because of this, the Catholic church has long, and mistakenly, accused us of Universalism: teaching that all beliefs are valid and lead to heaven. I can not stress enough that Masonry offers no path to salvation and hopes for divorce mercy there regarding.
I can agree when Freemasonry being a philosophical movement, though a loose one. It is not a formal or complicated philosophy. It teaches moral virtues but gives to solution to say, the trolly problem. You are still left to weigh and prioritize your values alone and act accordingly. What Freemasonry does do is give you bits of wisdom and working tools to help you ascertain weather or not you are treating people properly. It does not give you the answers here nor seeks to define what your relationships with certain individuals should be. We don't tell you how to live your life nor do we claim to know all the answers. Frankly, Freemasonry is a humble and progressive science which is rooted in our humility, of what we do not know.
Furthermore I reject your false equivocation that as a philosophical movement we can not say we don't define God. That is asinine. You are equivocating a philosophy with a theology. Not all philosophies are theologies or posit any kind of theological question or outlook. There are plenty of philosophies which don't even touch a divine sphere or reality, so the idea or notion that a philosophical outlook implies a definition for God, is absurd.
The only argument one can make for our defining God is that the qualifying God belief most be a Supreme being. That means that whatever your qualifying belief is, you must being there is no God or agency higher than said being.
To that point one brother may think Allah is the Most High while another beliefs Brahma is the most high. Now, Freemasonry as stated does not teach that each view is equally correct, it isn't for us to say either way. Logically though unless we believe these gods are the same or are cultural experiences of the same underlying God Noumena, they can not both be correct as they make conflicting claims. This is fine, as it is not for masonry to settle this dispute.
You are starting from the premise that morality is about God or defined by God. I never made such a claim nor am I going to accept your premise as implied from the get go. However, I am not going to outright refute it either. Let's say that morality is rooted in God, that we could not observe or have a conscious without God. I believe this. I also believe that one does not have to believe in God to be moral. It would be silly to me to think otherwise. There are many good upstanding and moral Atheists. It would seem to me that God exists regardless of the Atheists opinion or doesn't exist regardless of the Theist's opinion. Now if I believe the ability to observe any value system is rooted in God and also that Atheists can observe and follow such a moral value system I have to conclude God has gifted us the faculties of this ability to have a value system, unconditionally, irrespective of weather we believe in him/her/it or not. We aren't given the ability to be moral just because we believe, it is a most gracious gift without expectation of reimbursement. If God does not exist then the ability to be moral is simply embedded within our physiology and socio-cultural upbringing.
You continue to be absurd. How laudable it is to think that we might be able, with our limited capacity as temporal and mortal flesh-beings, to conceive of a definitive definition for God. How ridiculous, how foolish.
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-and no, we are not talking about Agnosticism. Gnosis is experiencal first-hand knowledge. A Gnostic is one who claims to have this. A- means not, or without. An agnostic therefore is one without an experience of God. These are knowledge statements whereas theism and atheism involve belief statements.
You can have a belief in God and not have revelation of God, ergo it is possible to be both a theist and an agnostic. I am neither atheist or agnostic. If we are going to use any label I am a monist in the highest sense and through my relationship with the Monad I become a theist.
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I can very well define my views on God but I think what you would be missing here is that it would not mean squat in your trying to understand Freemasonry, because they would be my own theological and cosmological views and not speak for Freemasonry. Not being a religion, Freemasonry has no set theology, or cosmology, each brother must supply that themselves in their own private religious/spiritual praxis.
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Monist, I am a monist as I believe in a boundless monad or one quintessential being which all of creation comes out of, is sustained and may be animated by. This also makes me an emmanationist.
I am a Deist in that I believe God is boundless, with nothing outside thereof which to limit it, beyond any human conception, attribute or personification and non-interventionary save through lesser emmanations, as to take any one position would not be being in all positions.
However, through our relationship with God, (the human psyche trying to comprehend and giving form to aspects of it which it can perceive), all theistic gods arise.
As a Deist, I recognize that God has a transcendent [and atemporal] nature-identity and thus, despite being naturalistic, can not be understood by a temporal nature of parts; yet, only rationality, logic and nature can be used to make any valid [objective] arguments for God's existence; said existence not being observable by any one part as the identity of God is beyond any temporal continuum.
Yet I also recognize that being existing by proxy in each and every sentient being, being itself the existential and sentient observer, and by this measure God is also immanent, and there is free agency existing within an otherwise deterministic world. The Life of God is also immanent in it's sustaining every temporal monad of matter as well as the geometrical symmetry of space-time in which all these myriad monads exist.
Creation being an unfolded modality of the boundless monad, one derives a pantheism though the transcendent identity which is more than the sum of its parts actually denotes panentheism, as does emmanative spheres of being.
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Nor do I think of God as a noun or things that exists so much as the condition for being itself, being: being. That is to say, a transcendent living verb through which all distinct qualia and perceived objects they constitute, emerge. It is not an existent thing but the wellspring of being, which allows things to exist. Not phenomena but rather Noumena. "It" is non-distinct and through Dasein, the ability to have characteristic qualia, all myriad or distinct things emerge.
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I also want to point out that Freemasonry is not dogmatic or propositional, we are a mystery skill. Not being a religion we are not ortho- anything but if we were, we would be orthopraxic 'based in right or regular practice' instead orthodoxic 'based in belief' save for those initial requirements of belief in some higher supreme power and the immortality of some part of the Spirit or Soul.
We have a ritual that we pass down to future generations of men. We tell them "this is what we inherited, and this is how we do it correctly and a dude the landmarks of how to do it" but we don't tell them what conclusions to come regarding their experience or how to come to terms with it.
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My own religious worldview is fairly similar. My people have always been deeply religious and we never had a separation of the secular and the sacred. Such a division was an entirely foreign concept. We had our believes and no opposition to them for they were simply the way of things. No opposition was needed, our way just was. It was living and we navigated it as a living organic body of wisdom ever combing into being, not static or rigid. Oh sure we recognized immutable laws of nature, constants and self-evident statements concerning Noumena and phenomena that must be; and yet, we taught each sees something different in the fire and thus comes into their own intimate relationship with what [always] is.
In the nature of this fire as the immutable first cause we were dogmatic, without being dogmatic. In our practice of right relationship with it, it's begotten creation and all it's children therein we were orthopraxic yet the rightness or correctness of the praxis differed between each offspring as per their relationships with their parent and their siblings.
Furthermore I reject your false equivocation that as a philosophical movement we can not say we don't define God. That is asinine. You are equivocating a philosophy with a theology. Not all philosophies are theologies or posit any kind of theological question or outlook. There are plenty of philosophies which don't even touch a divine sphere or reality, so the idea or notion that a philosophical outlook implies a definition for God, is absurd.
Aristotle's God is how both the philosophers and theologians define God and engage into discussions about God.
Without definition of a God there can be no conversation about God, whether religious conversation or non-religious.
You are starting from the premise that morality is about God or defined by God. I never made such a claim nor am I going to accept your premise as implied from the get go.
Neither did I say that, I only said that morality which freemasonry teaches is influenced by faith in God, which is what I concluded from your previous post when you said that atheists cannot be freemasons, thus if to be freemason requires belief in God and if freemasonry is about morality (as you said) then it logically follows that morality of freemasonry in influenced by the idea of or belief in God, isn't that correct?
Further I asked you, (but you did not answer), whether freemasonry is agnosticism, if it's not religion and does not define God but believes in existence of God.
How can you please explain that freemasonry is not agnosticism if it's not a religion?
You continue to be absurd. How laudable it is to think that we might be able, with our limited capacity as temporal and mortal flesh-beings, to conceive of a definitive definition for God. How ridiculous, how foolish.
I certainly did not claim there to exist definitive definition (that is knowledge) of God, you made that up to support your "foolish", "absurd", "asinine" and similar ad-hominem style comments against me.
On the topic of a secret society I once had the idea of one with the sole purpose of the next evolution of man weather this would entail something grand like immortality or godhood or something more simple like enlightenment and realization this would be a group with no religious ties no LHP or RHP more like a grey line in the middle only based upon proven results not mythology or word of mouth also I really like the name The Grey Line like the un-canon grey jedi (star wars stuff)the ones who tapped in both sides of the force creating balance and becoming one with it as a whole.
There's so much chaos and darkness already though. Even if my curses have a greater succes ratio than my blessings, i still want to make the world believe i am a son of Light
