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[Help] How to meditate if I have intrusive thoughts?

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ZefirEU

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In short:
I can't meditate or visualisation, because I've intrusive thoughts.
For example - If I want to visualise something, theres thought where a demon is standind next to me, or I feel that I haven't a arms.
And If I want visualise something what could harm somebody but If declare "without harm for nobody", theres intrusive thoughts where womebondy is dead anyway.


What can I do with that thought? Rly I cant do Alpha or meditation.
 

Ancient

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This is quite common when meditating, and is something I hear regularly from beginners. The mind is noisy, and it will constantly throw distractions at you. Choose a focal point - whether an image, object, sound, or sensation, and begin your meditation or exercise by focussing on that to the exclusion of all else. It will not last long before a distraction pops up - that’s okay. When you realize you have become distracted, bring your attention back to the focal point. Continue to do this for some time. You will find that the spaces in between distractions get longer until they stretch from seconds to minutes. Once you have spent some time calming the mind like this, your exercises will come much more naturally.
 

Roma

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I can't meditate or visualisation, because I've intrusive thoughts.
Try this

 

Ancient

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Thought of something else to help you.

The mind works a lot like your eyes; you may have a whole field of vision (thought) but you can only give complete focus to one thing at a time. Often when trying to avoid a particular thought, it is the one that keeps coming up.

Try this exercise to learn greater control of your mental focus:

Think of a fruit - today I will use an orange. Visualize it in as much detail as you can. See the dimples in the skin, and how the light shines off of it in some spots, while other sections appear matte. Notice the butt of the stem near the top, and the dark green color of it. Now pick it up in your dominant hand. Feel the dimples that you saw a moment ago. Trace your fingertip around it, feel the soft, slightly rubbery texture. Now toss it in the air and catch it in your other hand, feeling the gentle weight as it lands. Use your thumbnail to begin prying the peel off the flesh, and notice the spray of juice as it tears. The scent of citrus comes on strong and sharp. Peel about half of it, and notice if the skin still hangs connected or if it is detached entirely. See the fibrous white underside of the peel, and run your finger along that, noticing the difference in texture. Pull a slice of the orange out and eat it. Notice the taste, the texture of the slice, the scents, the sounds as you eat it. Engage every sense in as much detail as you can. When you have explored this orange fully, set it back down.

Now for the second half of the exercise, avoid thinking about oranges. Do not picture the color of the fruit. Do not remember that gentle weight as you tossed it from one hand to the other. Do not imagine breaking the skin with your thumbnail and smelling citrus. Do not imagine tearing a slice free and tasting it.

Makes it a little difficult, right? Instead what you should be doing is choosing an object to focus on that has absolutely nothing to do with oranges. Try imagining a cat or dog or bathtub instead, and apply that same level of detail to it as you did in the initial exercise.

This is the lesson here - when you are trying to avoid a certain thought or image, trying to specifically avoid it will likely make it pop up again and again. Instead, focus on something else in immaculate detail.

If you wish to gain greater control of your intrusive thoughts, this can be used to train your mind not to react. Each morning as you start your day, choose an object and examine it mentally in detail. Then set yourself a trigger reminder throughout the day - a well placed note, elastic band on your wrist, or intermittent alarms on your phone. Whenever this triggers, remember to not think of your object. Absorb yourself completely in something else. Over time this will develop your focus and these intrusive thoughts will happen less often, and in a less invasive manner.
 

Öwnchef

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"Not" is deleted by your subconsciousness. Use expressions that are free of of no in any communication with it.
So "I want to do no evil" is understood as "I want to do evil". Think instead "I want to do good".
 

hungry_ghost

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Give your mind something to do like focusing on your breath. When you focus on your breath all that stuff goes away.
 

Lemongrass00

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Observe these intrusions, let them pass. You are not your mind, refocus your consciousness on your breathing. Chant the mantra “OM” to help get back on focus.
 

Diluculo_DelFuego

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In short:
I can't meditate or visualisation, because I've intrusive thoughts.
For example - If I want to visualise something, theres thought where a demon is standind next to me, or I feel that I haven't a arms.
And If I want visualise something what could harm somebody but If declare "without harm for nobody", theres intrusive thoughts where womebondy is dead anyway.


What can I do with that thought? Rly I cant do Alpha or meditation.
Per Regardie, "if the mind is distracted from the meditation at any time, gently lead it back."
 

Silsebyl

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Now I would take a different approach here. When you sit down for meditation and calm down from the usual daily chatter, there might things pop up which do need your attention. Isn't this one main purpose of meditating, to connect to yourself and to realize what's going on inside you? I mean, feeling a demon next to you, suddenly having no arms or seeing people dead, this is not just the common kind of thoughts someone struggles with while meditating.

These thoughts express strong fears and maybe aggressions (against yourself, against others). In my opinion there's no benefit in trying to meditate and visualize while suppressing these fears, they will show up again and again, cause they need your attention and some way of healing. Only if you meditate, because you feel fears all day long and need rest from them, then there are techniques to find still places where you can calm down and find some peace.
 

Bandaboy

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Meditate on your desires. Pick one particular desire that you want to see come to pass and meditate on that. This is 'giving the monkey mind a banana' or 'giving the elephany raging mind peanuts'. You would be surprised how long you would meditate and how much you would grow
 

The Golden Jackal

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your meditation needs its own thought, learn about the I principle, ego conciousness is a will center in the sea of univeral mind. Use herbs Kava can get you into the full lotus which will keep you good; or consider meditation as an attitude that you are devoted to say for instance anything you really are not how it seems.
 

The Golden Jackal

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Thought of something else to help you.

The mind works a lot like your eyes; you may have a whole field of vision (thought) but you can only give complete focus to one thing at a time. Often when trying to avoid a particular thought, it is the one that keeps coming up.

Try this exercise to learn greater control of your mental focus:

Think of a fruit - today I will use an orange. Visualize it in as much detail as you can. See the dimples in the skin, and how the light shines off of it in some spots, while other sections appear matte. Notice the butt of the stem near the top, and the dark green color of it. Now pick it up in your dominant hand. Feel the dimples that you saw a moment ago. Trace your fingertip around it, feel the soft, slightly rubbery texture. Now toss it in the air and catch it in your other hand, feeling the gentle weight as it lands. Use your thumbnail to begin prying the peel off the flesh, and notice the spray of juice as it tears. The scent of citrus comes on strong and sharp. Peel about half of it, and notice if the skin still hangs connected or if it is detached entirely. See the fibrous white underside of the peel, and run your finger along that, noticing the difference in texture. Pull a slice of the orange out and eat it. Notice the taste, the texture of the slice, the scents, the sounds as you eat it. Engage every sense in as much detail as you can. When you have explored this orange fully, set it back down.

Now for the second half of the exercise, avoid thinking about oranges. Do not picture the color of the fruit. Do not remember that gentle weight as you tossed it from one hand to the other. Do not imagine breaking the skin with your thumbnail and smelling citrus. Do not imagine tearing a slice free and tasting it.

Makes it a little difficult, right? Instead what you should be doing is choosing an object to focus on that has absolutely nothing to do with oranges. Try imagining a cat or dog or bathtub instead, and apply that same level of detail to it as you did in the initial exercise.

This is the lesson here - when you are trying to avoid a certain thought or image, trying to specifically avoid it will likely make it pop up again and again. Instead, focus on something else in immaculate detail.

If you wish to gain greater control of your intrusive thoughts, this can be used to train your mind not to react. Each morning as you start your day, choose an object and examine it mentally in detail. Then set yourself a trigger reminder throughout the day - a well placed note, elastic band on your wrist, or intermittent alarms on your phone. Whenever this triggers, remember to not think of your object. Absorb yourself completely in something else. Over time this will develop your focus and these intrusive thoughts will happen less often, and in a less invasive manner.
this is concentration not meditation, and should be aided with plant helpers say mushrooms etc
 

The Golden Jackal

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Now I would take a different approach here. When you sit down for meditation and calm down from the usual daily chatter, there might things pop up which do need your attention. Isn't this one main purpose of meditating, to connect to yourself and to realize what's going on inside you? I mean, feeling a demon next to you, suddenly having no arms or seeing people dead, this is not just the common kind of thoughts someone struggles with while meditating.

These thoughts express strong fears and maybe aggressions (against yourself, against others). In my opinion there's no benefit in trying to meditate and visualize while suppressing these fears, they will show up again and again, cause they need your attention and some way of healing. Only if you meditate, because you feel fears all day long and need rest from them, then there are techniques to find still places where you can calm down and find some peace.
you can always use Descarte who was a very deep occultist and faced death, and overcame it. He says just deny every thing you can , and anything you cant is truth.
 
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