Magick. Since? Art? Both?

[Ang3l]

According to Aleister Crowley's definition: Magick is the science and art of causing change (in the world) in conformity with the Will of the operator. Some people say that it's just a science. Some people say that it's just art. Some say that it's both. What are your thoughts about what I mentioned?

 

[Mart]

As an artist, I tend to see many things as forms art and magick is no exception At the same time it absolutely is one of the three Great Royal Sciences, alongside alchemy and astrology. I think you can call science an "art of the mind".

 

[SkullTraill]

Imo most things in life except maths and physics are some combination of science and art.
Maths is a pre-science, Physics is pure science, Chemistry, Biology, and every other applied science, and/or every other field of study lies somewhere on the spectrum of Science-Art.

 

[Scottish_Pride]

I don't think art and science necessarily have to be mutually exclusive, at least for a lot of things. Magic being one of them. My career field (horticulture) is another example of intersection thereof. People will grow ornamental plants with as much artistic thought put in as scientific thought. You gotta know the rules in order to break them, make them do something unique. Alot like how an architect will design buildings to be "art", but at the same time they need to be structurally sound.

 

[8Lou1]

in islam, magick isnt very favourable, but when you heal you can use tools. and it is no longer called witchcraft, but healing. there are other ways though. one of them is the sciences. i think crowly describes it well( dont like his way of using it, but thats an whole different story). when one becomes good at the sciences it becomes an art, like a skilled woodworker would be an artisan.

when you look at old arabic texts. their view on science and art is very different then how we look at it from a western paradigm. in essense there is no difference between it. creating a beautifull artwork is just as much mathematical, as spirit/god inspired as it is a science to make it flow into reality. it is also very much connected to how nature works and thereby seen as divine inspired ie magickal. i think the closest concept that comes to mind would be michaelangelo, although he was more into the world as is, instead of the layers beneath it.

 

[SkullTraill]

in islam, magick isnt very favourable, but when you heal you can use tools. and it is no longer called witchcraft, but healing. there are other ways though. one of them is the sciences. i think crowly describes it well( dont like his way of using it, but thats an whole different story). when one becomes good at the sciences it becomes an art, like a skilled woodworker would be an artisan.

when you look at old arabic texts. their view on science and art is very different then how we look at it from a western paradigm. in essense there is no difference between it. creating a beautifull artwork is just as much mathematical, as spirit/god inspired as it is a science to make it flow into reality. it is also very much connected to how nature works and thereby seen as divine inspired ie magickal. i think the closest concept that comes to mind would be michaelangelo, although he was more into the world as is, instead of the layers beneath it.

I love that you brought this up. Islamic art and architecture especially arabesque has a lot of science flowing in it's blood.

 

[8Lou1]

thanks, i love that there are questions that make me delve in my knowhow

 

[Ang3l]

Since that post, I consider myself more of an artist, haha.

 

[Roma]

In Western culture the term "science" is usually applied to the study of matter. The principles of science can also be applied to emotional and mental energies/planes.

Feng Shui is an example of a non-material science applied to the outer world. TCM is another.

Albert Mackey tells of a science of morality that is veiled in allegory but even that description is an allegory.

 

[Roma]

Not all people operate as scientists. Most operate by relationship. A successful artist usually forms a deep relationship with each subject.

 

[Flavius]

I’d differentiatiate magic as a science from the scientific method. The later has its limits in phenomenal reality, physical space.

 

[Roma]

I’d differentiatiate magic as a science from the scientific method. The later has its limits in phenomenal reality, physical space.

Quantum mechanics?

 

[Flavius]

Quantum mechanics?

That is still limited to the physical world.

 

[Incognitus]

I always go back to that Asimov quote

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic

Tell someone their Internet is being delivered on beams of light and see the utter confusion and amazement, even tho it’s all obviously grounded in scientific fact. Some of the core concepts go back to the 1800s, but people still think it’s akin to Magick.

Anhome that’s done any sort of practice knows there’s an artistic quality to everything. Rituals are essentially dramatic plays.

I like Crowely’s definition personally. For me it’s impossible to remove the art aspect.

Although I would add a third definition Magick is also religion for some people, not just science and art.