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My Personal Four Rules For Testing/Experimenting With Magic

Pestifer Mundi

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The point of these rules is to eliminate doubt and establish the veracity of the magic I'm experimenting with.

I know that there is a lot of magic that can't be directly observed, but in my book there's no point in dabbling in the deeper things like that, if I can't even do something on the surface level. Until I can accomplish such a feat, magic will only be "theoretical" to me.

I need to eliminate doubt in the minor things so that I can know (not "hope" or "feel") that what I'm doing later on is actually working. Doubt may actually end up impeding my progress in the later stages so I believe I should eliminate it in the early stages, so that there is no doubt when it comes to the unobservable.



RULES:
1. The feat has to be observable in the physical world (I can see it in front of my face, with my own two eyes, while awake and not in any "induced state"). I don't trust "astral visions" or "astral projection", it can just as easily be your imagination. I've had very realistic lucid dreams of me looking down at my body in my room and feeling light and flying around, I do not trust those experiences as "evidence". Something that you "feel" could just be a "Placebo Effect" or self delusion.

2. The feat has to be instantaneous (I made something very specific happen with intent, at the very moment of evocation/focus). This is very important for establishing that it was the result of intent. Something can always happen a week or so after and then you'll tell yourself - "it must have been what I did", but you don't really know that.

3. The feat is repeatable (I was able to repeat the feat with the same level of scrutiny, at least 3 times). This takes out the whole "it was luck or random chance" factor. It leaves no room for doubt.

4. The feat is inexplicable through "natural phenomenon" and is indisputably the result of my intent. Where "nothing is left to chance" and it can't be explained by "coincidence", or "luck", or anything like that (I can't explain it away under any circumstances, the feat is outside the laws of the physical world).

Bonus: Capture it on camera (not necessary, but it does help to eliminate the possibility of self delusion). What I saw with my eyes should match what I see in the video.



However little or big the feat is, it must meet these 4 criteria for me to completely accept that it really happened.

Example 1:
If I could launch a tiny pebble as a projectile at a nearby target (wall), through some magical means, at least 3 times, and it could not be explained through natural phenomenon (I didn't throw it by hand or something like that), that would be a successful experiment, I'd have no doubt that it worked.

Example 2:
If I could heat up a sheet of paper to the point that it catches fire, through some magical means, at least 3 times, and it could not be explained through natural phenomenon (no use of an accelerant, friction and/or external heat like sun light), that would be a successful experiment, I'd have no doubt that it worked.

So I am looking for minor things like that to test, and I have found such a thing like this to test recently, I'll probably post the results back here in this thread.
 

8Lou1

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Please do share your test. Right now you are not far from being debunked yourself and id rather see you find a door into the occult yourself and start learning then watching the world slap another one into oblivion. (f *ck, love is annoying)

Overall occult means hidden and as long as one does not have the eye to see into the hidden world, things are different and hard to prove.

Also, as soon as humans take from the hidden world and bring it into being it stops being hidden. For example our latest extraction: the internet.

Now be so kind and prove us you are more, as i have seen you dangle around several times now.
 

Pestifer Mundi

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Right now you are not far from being debunked yourself
I haven't made any claims of a feat to have it be debunked, my entire position is that I haven't done anything yet, and I'm using a specific methodology to verify if I've actually done something that works (if it even works).

Now be so kind and prove us you are more, as i have seen you dangle around several times now.
If I'm being honest, at this point if I did manage to pull something off I'd probably leave and never post here again, because since I first came to this forum I was told the things I wanted to try were virtually impossible and insurmountable feats (like moving a small object without touching it)

But ironically communicating with Gods/spirits/demons/entities , creating "invisible" energy fields, siphoning off other peoples energy, all these extreme high level feats (all things which conveniently can't be observed or proven in any way), were all obviously possible and already done by many members on the site (isn't that convenient 😂)

It reminds me of Invisible Boy from the Mystery Men movie:
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He has the power to turn invisible.............. but only when no one is looking at him and when he is naked :ROFLMAO:



1. If I were able to pull off one of these "impossible" feats that can be observed and tested, I would be the one with something to offer the forum rather than the forum having anything to offer me (since I did the impossible), and I only came here in order to learn from alleged veterans, not teach alleged veterans.


2. It would only make me more paranoid, because why isn't something like that common knowledge if it's possible for a noob like me to do it.

I'd be in fear for my life, like I'd probably be killed if I ever talked about it here.

I'd just keep to myself and continue my practice alone and in secret.


3. Listen, if someone tells me they can communicate with or channel a demon using their "energy", but they can't light a single sheet of paper on fire with that same "energy", I'm going to doubt they can do what they claimed, because its like saying you can do 1000 pushups in a closed room by yourself but you can't do 10 in public.

I don't doubt the existence of magic, I doubt most people who claim they've done it, because their rationalizations and excuses are always too convenient.
 

8Lou1

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hehehehe, what is a noob to one, is king to the other.

8Lou1 said:
Right now you are not far from being debunked yourself
I haven't made any claims of a feat to have it be debunked, my entire position is that I haven't done anything yet, and I'm using a specific methodology to verify if I've actually done something that works (if it even works).

again: lol, you are debunking the debunker.
 

Pestifer Mundi

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I agree with you, on a lot of this.
One of the funniest things I've noticed about the "magic community" is that the more seriously you take magic, the more ostracized you will be.

People love the "new agey", open ended, "everybody just think and believe whatever you want because were all equally right" kind of framework for the occult

They want to avoid specifics and testing things accurately as much as possible, because then there's no ambiguity.

Without ambiguity, one method becomes more optimal than the other so some methods get phased out and replaced. Or if a method gets proven completely false someone is forced to admit that they were just playing mind games with themselves or larping the entire time.

Half of my mind thinks its just humans being humans and wanting to warp themselves in the warm and comforting cloak of self delusion.

The other half thinks this is all on purpose and its for the sole reason of spreading confusion and false information, to "separate the wheat from the chaff" and make it harder for people to find "real magic".
 

Mider2009

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One of the funniest things I've noticed about the "magic community" is that the more seriously you take magic, the more ostracized you will be.

People love the "new agey", open ended, "everybody just think and believe whatever you want because were all equally right" kind of framework for the occult

They want to avoid specifics and testing things accurately as much as possible, because then there's no ambiguity.

Without ambiguity, one method becomes more optimal than the other so some methods get phased out and replaced. Or if a method gets proven completely false someone is forced to admit that they were just playing mind games with themselves or larping the entire time.

Half of my mind thinks its just humans being humans and wanting to warp themselves in the warm and comforting cloak of self delusion.

The other half thinks this is all on purpose and its for the sole reason of spreading confusion and false information, to "separate the wheat from the chaff" and make it harder for people to find "real magic".
I think it’s also a lot of LARPing, that and people mess with spirits whose energies they can’t handle
 

Pestifer Mundi

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I think it’s also a lot of LARPing
Lol dude so many people took offense to my first thread that I'm sure this place is filled with larps, I went to another forum talking the same way and nobody responded like that, in fact one of them even said "this place isn't filled with armchair magicians".

However in here people took the thread as a personal attack, thread even got deleted because I had the gall to ask for "real magic" and because I was skeptical.

That award you see under my name and the title "Magic Larper" was literally put there because I challenged the community on this, not a good look for an occult forum lol. I just chose a matching profile image for the sake of aesthetics ;).

I like the look of the forum, but at this point this place is just a "way station". If you ever hear of a more serious community let me know.
 

8Lou1

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I have been to several occult sites were larping is common. (i had never heard of it a couple of years ago and found it quite fun up to a point) it seems those sites leave it there as shield. Which is understandable, but can be annoying.

If my research is right, @skull correct me if im wrong, the first wf was built by people with a gamers background so gaming/larping is part of it roots.

And eventhough it can be annoying for someone who knows how it works, it also has proven worth. At least fot me. For one if you know you can play and teach/learn new skills safely, a little playground for humans to mess with new skill is like playing in a sandbox at school.

But what was important for me personally was learning to find the fun in fantasy and opening my mind to more without being possessed by some being with evil intent, as i have had some attacks in my life were that has happened. I also had, due to upbringing, everything fun is evil, so i never dared express myself in a creative manner. Even enjoying music was scarry. Larping broke so much barriers for me, that i can honestly say that to break free from a boxed mind it is a good start.

Now what has that to do with the occult one might say. Id say a lot. Know thyself is one thing needed for traveling the occult more safe, but also expressing blockages that could take lifetimes to heal can be delt with tru larping. For more experienced practitioners it can also be fun as relaxation tool or to show some beings that humans for sure can do stuff too.

I even used it once in a witchwar i didnt want to be part of. They kept pressuring me and agitating me so id attack. Instead of doing that i built a huge fake evil version of me in their minds and it worked. It is not always about power. being clever, safe and healthy is way more important and fun.

That some people here laugh at your statements is human nature. We all come with our own backgrounds, were very often certain things cant be done or need a certain paradigm to see.
Id say create your own way and stay stubborn in your believe that prove can be given. I sure as hell did it my way and eventhough it took a bit longer then normal, it is real and stubborness is a great gift to have.

im truly curious if you got the results you wanted. I did anyways and found the convo with you fun to experience.
 

Mider2009

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Lol dude so many people took offense to my first thread that I'm sure this place is filled with larps, I went to another forum talking the same way and nobody responded like that, in fact one of them even said "this place isn't filled with armchair magicians".

However in here people took the thread as a personal attack, thread even got deleted because I had the gall to ask for "real magic" and because I was skeptical.

That award you see under my name and the title "Magic Larper" was literally put there because I challenged the community on this, not a good look for an occult forum lol. I just chose a matching profile image for the sake of aesthetics ;).

I like the look of the forum, but at this point this place is just a "way station". If you ever hear of a more serious community let me know.
It happens man, there’s a lot of good people here but there’s also a lot of loonies who think they can control their ancestors and one crazy guy who says he talks to God.
 

Pestifer Mundi

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It happens man, there’s a lot of good people here but there’s also a lot of loonies who think they can control their ancestors and one crazy guy who says he talks to God.
My favorite one so far is the guy who is being pursued by a man doing astral projection, who doesn't kill him, but instead simply keeps him from eating when he's home.......... that's his scary situation that he needed URGENT help with.

The assailant doesn't stop him from going online for help, doesn't stop him from leaving the house to eat or go to work, it only stops him from eating when at home lol.

Notice the running theme of "convenience", a malicious assailant that won't kill you for some reason and allows you so many conveniences.

The story just becomes excessively ridiculous as you read on, he starts trying to make it sound more dangerous and back-peddles the to guy trying to kill him in "games".

The more he talked about the guy, the more I just wanted to learn from them than listen to him complain about them lol.
I have called God, 4 pagan gods, archangel Michael, etc. to no avail. Of course, the astral projector himself told me he blocked getting help from gods, and using magic and glamoured my cards.
 

Mider2009

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My favorite one so far is the guy who is being pursued by a man doing astral projection, who doesn't kill him, but instead simply keeps him from eating when he's home.......... that's his scary situation that he needed URGENT help with.

The assailant doesn't stop him from going online for help, doesn't stop him from leaving the house to eat or go to work, it only stops him from eating when at home lol.

Notice the running theme of "convenience", a malicious assailant that won't kill you for some reason and allows you so many conveniences.

The story just becomes excessively ridiculous as you read on, he starts trying to make it sound more dangerous and back-peddles the to guy trying to kill him in "games".

The more he talked about the guy, the more I just wanted to learn from them than listen to him complain about them lol.
yeah There’s also a guy who says he controls his ancestors and sees angels...he conveniently can’t share how others can do that. Or the guy who sees speaks to God conveniently doesn’t know anything about the occult.
 

8Lou1

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You know what is convient????

You sitting behind your desktop whining about others, instead of doing something real.

Go f*cking train pyrokinesis, or whatever you say you want in your life.

No one is able to share info here with you. And that's for one reason only: disrespect of ancestors and other spirits. And yes i say that conveniently, as i know the spirits involved will take care of it.
 

Pestifer Mundi

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If my research is right, @skull correct me if im wrong, the first wf was built by people with a gamers background so gaming/larping is part of it roots.

And eventhough it can be annoying for someone who knows how it works, it also has proven worth. At least for me.
Imagine walking into a hospital to treat a serious condition and finding out that some of the staff are just random people that walked in, threw on some uniforms, and decided to play "pretend doctor" and "pretend nurse".

I guess that would be great huh?, I'm sure that has some "proven worth" too right? lol.


You would not apply the ridiculous logic you are applying to magic to anything else.

People larping without explicitly stating so, at best leads to mass confusion and at worse injury and/or death.

You know what is convient????

You sitting behind your desktop whining about others, instead of doing something real.
They aren't mutually exclusive, I can do both of those things.

There's this convenient little button at the top of this thread labelled "Unwatch", you can scroll up and click that if you no longer want to get alerts for responses in this thread.

You can also click my name and then click the convenient "Ignore" button too so you no longer see my posts again.

Now that's convenience. (y)

Should I even be surprised that someone who see's larping as "OK" took offense.

No one is able to share info here with you. And that's for one reason only: disrespect of ancestors and other spirits.
They have shared, they shared things that can't be tested or observed, weren't you listening? :sneaky:

If any knowledge you were taught in school was "shared" in this manner you would have never learned anything.

And yes i say that conveniently, as i know the spirits involved will take care of it.
Oh yeah, sure bud.
 

8Lou1

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Yeah imagine.. But thankfully you made everyone here aware of the most evil skill in the world: larping.

And mr. Pestifer mundi even took it a step further and made me type i like it. Damn you must be even more evil then me...

Thankfully i never went to school otherwise id probably larp a mass shooting into being...

The spirits and ancestors should have killed me, f*cking ratting like this about larping.

Thak you pestifer mundi, for saving my arsh like this..
 

SkullTraill

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If my research is right, @skull correct me if im wrong, the first wf was built by people with a gamers background so gaming/larping is part of it roots.
No, that's not correct. It has hacker-culture and anarchist roots. Not gaming.

Although, there were a lot of new agers, larpers and just people who had no actual knowledge of magick back then.

@Pestifer Mundi this is an open forum, not an elitist enclave with requirements and tests to join. WF always has been and always will be an open discussion forum for people of all types and backgrounds to share their thoughts, opinions and knowledge. Remember that's the reason you, a complete larper with no experience, knowledge or wisdom to share is allowed to be on this forum. There will always be crackheads, pretenders, larpers such as yourself on open forums. I'm not in the business of preventing that... that's how forums die, just look at all the other "elitist" forums that are now dead (like SA).

Take what you need, share what you can, follow the rules, and ignore the rest. Simple.
 

dema354

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The point of these rules is to eliminate doubt and establish the veracity of the magic I'm experimenting with.

I know that there is a lot of magic that can't be directly observed, but in my book there's no point in dabbling in the deeper things like that, if I can't even do something on the surface level. Until I can accomplish such a feat, magic will only be "theoretical" to me.

I need to eliminate doubt in the minor things so that I can know (not "hope" or "feel") that what I'm doing later on is actually working. Doubt may actually end up impeding my progress in the later stages so I believe I should eliminate it in the early stages, so that there is no doubt when it comes to the unobservable.



RULES:
1. The feat has to be observable in the physical world (I can see it in front of my face, with my own two eyes, while awake and not in any "induced state"). I don't trust "astral visions" or "astral projection", it can just as easily be your imagination. I've had very realistic lucid dreams of me looking down at my body in my room and feeling light and flying around, I do not trust those experiences as "evidence". Something that you "feel" could just be a "Placebo Effect" or self delusion.

2. The feat has to be instantaneous (I made something very specific happen with intent, at the very moment of evocation/focus). This is very important for establishing that it was the result of intent. Something can always happen a week or so after and then you'll tell yourself - "it must have been what I did", but you don't really know that.

3. The feat is repeatable (I was able to repeat the feat with the same level of scrutiny, at least 3 times). This takes out the whole "it was luck or random chance" factor. It leaves no room for doubt.

4. The feat is inexplicable through "natural phenomenon" and is indisputably the result of my intent. Where "nothing is left to chance" and it can't be explained by "coincidence", or "luck", or anything like that (I can't explain it away under any circumstances, the feat is outside the laws of the physical world).

Bonus: Capture it on camera (not necessary, but it does help to eliminate the possibility of self delusion). What I saw with my eyes should match what I see in the video.



However little or big the feat is, it must meet these 4 criteria for me to completely accept that it really happened.

Example 1:
If I could launch a tiny pebble as a projectile at a nearby target (wall), through some magical means, at least 3 times, and it could not be explained through natural phenomenon (I didn't throw it by hand or something like that), that would be a successful experiment, I'd have no doubt that it worked.

Example 2:
If I could heat up a sheet of paper to the point that it catches fire, through some magical means, at least 3 times, and it could not be explained through natural phenomenon (no use of an accelerant, friction and/or external heat like sun light), that would be a successful experiment, I'd have no doubt that it worked.

So I am looking for minor things like that to test, and I have found such a thing like this to test recently, I'll probably post the results back here in this thread.
Good. Actually all things considered this is the sort of approach that the occult community should be striving for however instead they mostly delude themselves into failing to see what magick traditionally is, i.e. to give an example, literaly raising someone from the dead although based on the Book of Oberon: A Sourcebook of Elizabethan Magic, necromancy apparently was considered or seems to be considered a science as viewed by those living in the Elizabethan era. The more you know.
8Lou1 said:
Right now you are not far from being debunked yourself
I haven't made any claims of a feat to have it be debunked, my entire position is that I haven't done anything yet, and I'm using a specific methodology to verify if I've actually done something that works (if it even works).
What feat? If I were to claim I know someone who's experienced things and events such as literal teleportation that is just a statement, an unfalsifiable statement which means I can't exactly prove or disprove the veracity of the statement however such a factor of something being as such is not an indicator of or of its lack of existance. Some folks should really study up on logical reasoning. The existance, or lack thereof something remains independent on whether it can be proven or not. To put it succinctly for those who either fail or are purposely misconstruing what I'm trying to get at, the question isn't so much as to whether something exists or not as your answer will change depending on which framework of philosophy you're using and who knows which one(s) are representative of the truth as it is to do with what can one do, does or will do with that statement or its practicality.
I doubt most people who claim they've done it, because their rationalizations and excuses are always too convenient.
Same here. Yeah, I know this may seem like a necro-post/reply but I hope you'll appreciate it when I say that the occult community could really do to have more people like you, those who understand, acknowledge and appreciate the value of methodology when it comes to the craft as opposed to the state of affairs by which the occult community has found itself in.
 

Diluculo_DelFuego

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I have found two rituals I wrote to work well, unfortunately not iron clad enough nor useful to tell if it is repeatable enough to be "iron clad".
Get A Job
Bring The Sun Back Out
also Full Moon ritual to obtain needs.
These two rituals are as they state and worked for me.
If they can work for someone else or get schooled by them? Not sure.
Perhaps focus more on what you need to do with magic, unless youre writing a book on it or trying to leave a legacy.
Post automatically merged:

My alchemy however leads one to wonder why I mix what I mix. I dare not taste it, but the hotfoot oil I meds smells like weed and roses.
Post automatically merged:

I haven't made any claims of a feat to have it be debunked, my entire position is that I haven't done anything yet, and I'm using a specific methodology to verify if I've actually done something that works (if it even works).


If I'm being honest, at this point if I did manage to pull something off I'd probably leave and never post here again, because since I first came to this forum I was told the things I wanted to try were virtually impossible and insurmountable feats (like moving a small object without touching it)

But ironically communicating with Gods/spirits/demons/entities , creating "invisible" energy fields, siphoning off other peoples energy, all these extreme high level feats (all things which conveniently can't be observed or proven in any way), were all obviously possible and already done by many members on the site (isn't that convenient 😂)

It reminds me of Invisible Boy from the Mystery Men movie:
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He has the power to turn invisible.............. but only when no one is looking at him and when he is naked :ROFLMAO:



1. If I were able to pull off one of these "impossible" feats that can be observed and tested, I would be the one with something to offer the forum rather than the forum having anything to offer me (since I did the impossible), and I only came here in order to learn from alleged veterans, not teach alleged veterans.


2. It would only make me more paranoid, because why isn't something like that common knowledge if it's possible for a noob like me to do it.

I'd be in fear for my life, like I'd probably be killed if I ever talked about it here.

I'd just keep to myself and continue my practice alone and in secret.


3. Listen, if someone tells me they can communicate with or channel a demon using their "energy", but they can't light a single sheet of paper on fire with that same "energy", I'm going to doubt they can do what they claimed, because its like saying you can do 1000 pushups in a closed room by yourself but you can't do 10 in public.

I don't doubt the existence of magic, I doubt most people who claim they've done it, because their rationalizations and excuses are always too convenient.
The LBRP fits your rules.
 
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aviaf

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Lol dude so many people took offense to my first thread that I'm sure this place is filled with larps, I went to another forum talking the same way and nobody responded like that, in fact one of them even said "this place isn't filled with armchair magicians".

However in here people took the thread as a personal attack, thread even got deleted because I had the gall to ask for "real magic" and because I was skeptical.

That award you see under my name and the title "Magic Larper" was literally put there because I challenged the community on this, not a good look for an occult forum lol. I just chose a matching profile image for the sake of aesthetics ;).

I like the look of the forum, but at this point this place is just a "way station". If you ever hear of a more serious community let me know.
The first book on magic that I read (and actually followed the coursework) instructed ‘think for yourself, question authority’… best advice on magic and life in general I’ve ever encountered.
 
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