Wishful thinking VS tangible results

[IllusiveOwl]

The line between synchronicity, divine intervention, and normal bullshit happening in a way that benefits you seems pretty blurry around a lot of esoteric circles. There are the dead cynical husks on one end that believe in nothing and the genuinely delusional & incoherent on the other polarity who believe everything that walked in through the front door. The delusional are the ones who, as you'd expect, make the most connections between Heaven and Earth, to the point that every little article, sensation, or interaction can be credited to some kind of suprasensory entity.

How do you all judge whether you have genuinely been given aid? When a God has decided to involve itself in your little life in the nest of billions on this planet? Is there any kind of filter or weighing system any of yinz use, or do you just go off your ✨️feelings✨️?

 

[Vandheer]

How do you all judge whether you have genuinely been given aid?

To me, it depends on how unlikely the desired outcome would have happened without the operation.

I remember an idiot who said he made a talisman to become a dj and it manifested two years later because he started editing songs and sending them to telegram groups. That is just laughable, he could have just done this without the ritual and no need to wait for two years for this.

But it he were to play a set in tomorrowland... Thats magick. Doesn't even need to be that extreme, he could have been a radio dj or just one in a local club.

Not easy to draw a concrete line on this one, but there are instances that is too suspicious to swap away for me.

 

[beardedeldridge]

Vandheer has got the right of it. This is why it’s important to keep a detailed and honest journal of what you did (right after you did it), the intended results, and then the actual ones (or lack there of). Because confirmation bias (for and against results) is rampant in the occult community, as you pointed out.

Way I think practitioners should handle this stuff: Let’s say you do three workings a year looking for specific results. Two of which are probably a 50/50 (or better) of having what you want to happen happen with no intervention (you just want to tilt the events a little more in your favor), write those down and use the results as a data point but those aren’t really helpful in gauging how effective your working was (or wasn’t).

Now for the next one you want to meet your SO and you want them to be wearing pink (so you don’t miss the opportunity) when you meet them. I’d do the ritual, journal it, then do a divination method or two and note those readings. Now if the divinations predict that it’ll happen and over the next few weeks you meet someone and you guys really hit it off but they’re not wearing pink but you’re having a great time so you just roll with it. Now as the day warms up after a few hours, they pull their sweater off and they’re wearing a pink undershirt that’s the level I would consider a significant success and the fact that you couldn’t initially see the pink helps make sure you don’t just go gaga just because a pretty person is wearing pink.

At some point it will become very obvious if you’re getting results of not. The desire/need for results (or sometimes the disbelief no matter what happens) is strong in people, and approaching a practice in this way helps a person combat that internal bias.

typed quickly while in a meeting lol, hopefully it’s coherent

-Eld

 

[IllusiveOwl]

At some point it will become very obvious if you’re getting results of not.

I think the blazing clarity that it's a direct communication would be the way you'd tell. If there's a lengthy and less-than-electric experience on revelation that it's a correspondence, it's not a proper interaction between that which is above and below.

 

[beardedeldridge]

I think the blazing clarity that it's a direct communication would be the way you'd tell. If there's a lengthy and less-than-electric experience on revelation that it's a correspondence, it's not a proper interaction between that which is above and below.

I don’t disagree. But if we’re referring to aid and someone is having mind blowing encounters but nothing ever changes then a practitioner should consider that. In the case of the DJ, if he received confirmation that he would become a famous DJ but he never rises above making mix tapes in his bedroom, then he should definitely reconsider that in light of that lack of change in his reality.

 

[IllusiveOwl]

n the case of the DJ, if he received confirmation that he would become a famous DJ but he never rises above making mix tapes in his bedroom, then he should definitely reconsider that in light of that lack of change in his reality.

I dont think the faults of the practitioner would decide the authenticity of the connection. If a power decides to communicate with the DJ, and he ignores the call, than he is just the seer that chooses not to see and gets swept away in the green tidalwave, it's his fault, not the message's.

 

[beardedeldridge]

*I should have said that he thinks he received confirmation.

To the question of “wishful thinking vs tangible results”. There’s no such thing as an occult Geiger counter so how do we gauge what we experience as real or not? The short answer is we really can’t. Let’s say I prayed and the cancer went away, now was that my prayer that did it, someone else’s, or did a million people pray for themselves and out of a million people someone would just happen to get better and I happen to be the one who “won the lottery” and then I wrongly attribute it to receiving aid from whoever I asked for help. There’s no way to know for sure. Then you add in the very real human desire to see/hear/touch the supernatural and you have the perfect mixture to let our imagination run away with us.

Now how do we safe guard ourselves from becoming one of the “genuinely delusional & incoherent” who thinks “that every little article, sensation, or interaction can be credited to some kind of suprasensory entity.” My best answer for that is to keep honest and detailed records of your practice. A trend of unlikely outcomes suggests successful workings. Now, as you pointed out, a lack of that doesn’t necessarily disprove anything but a practitioner should consider that lack of results to help safeguard themselves against going too far down an erroneous rabbit hole.

-Eld

 

[Shade]

The line between synchronicity, divine intervention, and normal bullshit happening in a way that benefits you seems pretty blurry around a lot of esoteric circles. There are the dead cynical husks on one end that believe in nothing and the genuinely delusional & incoherent on the other polarity who believe everything that walked in through the front door. The delusional are the ones who, as you'd expect, make the most connections between Heaven and Earth, to the point that every little article, sensation, or interaction can be credited to some kind of suprasensory entity.

How do you all judge whether you have genuinely been given aid? When a God has decided to involve itself in your little life in the nest of billions on this planet? Is there any kind of filter or weighing system any of yinz use, or do you just go off your ✨️feelings✨️?

If you get the results you require then I don’t see why the seperation is necessary unless you’re trying to get down to the mechanics of it, then in that case the journal aspect and experimentation is necessary, including your frame of mind at the time, to me if something goes perfect it’s as if an an audible click you feel and hear from inside is triggered. if I don’t feel that then I know that what I did may come to fruition or may not but in those cases the ritual/spell is just means to a goal and didn’t bring the goal to me. Similar to implanting a sigil into the subconscious. You’ll do things you normally wouldn’t do if your not being mindful of what your doing and this can result in what you wanted to become reality, it’s all subjective to the reason and way which a person uses magick, but that click is something that’s not psychosomatic and no matter how many times I do a spell I may not feel it then other times doing the same spell I do and it works with no effort as spells should, results are unmistakable if you are truthful to yourself. Those that live in delusion are only harming themselves and will quickly become disenchanted with magick in years to come unless they experience anything real. It’s important to differentiate when you are using belief rather than let belief use you. The former has merit, the latter is mental masterbation.
That’s just my opinion from personal experiences.

 

[Taudefindi]

How do you all judge whether you have genuinely been given aid?

I don't deal with entities by choice, but I guess that there would've been something like a very strong sixth sense going on telling you that something is different or that something "is here".The outside the norm is easy to figure out when you compare to the mundane, I like to think.

you just go off your ✨️feelings✨️?

There are feelings and feelings.
First one is mundane, something you deal with everyday.Second one is something that happens once in a while, like when your entire body is telling you that something is really wrong right now or when you're feeling euphoric and outside of yourself, so to speak.

I think a person can easily learn to distinguish between which "feeling" they're feeling.

he made a talisman to become a dj

Somehow I imagined a talisman in the shape of a LP record...

it he were to play a set in tomorrowland... Thats magick

Without any network to be able to play there?As an unknown or upcoming dj?Certainly it would've been a work of magic as the chances of that happening would be very small.

There’s no such thing as an occult Geiger counter so how do we gauge what we experience as real or not?

Nice analogy.

 

[stalkinghyena]

When I was a teenager all I could think about was losing my virginity, so I prayed to Satan. "Coincidentally" in short time I met a girl at school who all too easily obliged me and of course I gave Satan the credit.

I still consider it very much "tangible results" and I know it was the Devil because she gave me herpes.

 

[Ziran]

How do you all judge whether you have genuinely been given aid? When a God has decided to involve itself in your little life in the nest of billions on this planet? Is there any kind of filter or weighing system any of yinz use, or do you just go off your ✨️feelings✨️?

3 nested layers of coincidences ---> likely divine intervention.

Although, I am cautious not to "test" the divine. ( Deuteronomy 6:16 ). The observer effect ( QM ) will interfere.

 

[Robert Ramsay]

There was another thread about this, but I can't find it right now. What I notice is that the "coincidence" that you consider to be the success will usually be surrounded by other coincidences, both likely and unlikely.

 

[beardedeldridge]

There was another thread about this, but I can't find it right now. What I notice is that the "coincidence" that you consider to be the success will usually be surrounded by other coincidences, both likely and unlikely.

Essentially. I find the chains of coincidences to be the most helpful since I’m not usually trying to pull off impossible odds. So if I sense the “click”, I think someone referred to it as, then two different divination readings plus an event or two actually happening, that would be a sufficient chain of events to suggest a successful working for me.

-Eld