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Your Ultimate Goal

Kronus

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Greetings fellow practitioners,

I have a question for all of you. A question I have given much thought myself the last couple of weeks. I have found my answer, but it will come after my book, The Book of The Gods, has been published.

ultimately, what is your goal with magick?
 

SkullTraill

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Knowledge, and some control over my immediate life/surroundings (interpret that in whatever way you wish). Mostly knowledge tho.
I guess mine would be the inverse of this... in some sense.

Knowledge as a means to an end to improve my life, wealth, success, control. And then knowledge on top of that as a secondary, side project.

A lot of people are afraid to say that their main goal is wealth or success because it is seen as inferior to "the great work" or "approaching divinity" which are the traditionally respected goals of occult studies.

Wealth and control over one's material life is by definition "low magick" and sometimes seen as "unsavory".

But I'm not ashamed to say that improving my station in life, and generating money and wealth was what initially piqued my curiosity in the occult, and my successes in that endeavor are what fortified my interest. To this day, it is my main goal. It'll probably stay that way until I'm a millionaire with significant wealth and passive income to pursue other interests in the vein of "knowledge" etc.

That's also why I will never and have never professed to be an expert occultist, or someone that others should follow/learn from.
 

Kronus

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I guess mine would be the inverse of this... in some sense.

Knowledge as a means to an end to improve my life, wealth, success, control. And then knowledge on top of that as a secondary, side project.

A lot of people are afraid to say that their main goal is wealth or success because it is seen as inferior to "the great work" or "approaching divinity" which are the traditionally respected goals of occult studies.

Wealth and control over one's material life is by definition "low magick" and sometimes seen as "unsavory".

But I'm not ashamed to say that improving my station in life, and generating money and wealth was what initially piqued my curiosity in the occult, and my successes in that endeavor are what fortified my interest. To this day, it is my main goal. It'll probably stay that way until I'm a millionaire with significant wealth and passive income to pursue other interests in the vein of "knowledge" etc.

That's also why I will never and have never professed to be an expert occultist, or someone that others should follow/learn from.

i don’t consider it to be low in any way. To help others, you got to help yourself first. Many times people forget this.

I am sure that you will get the success you seek and even more than you can imagine.
 

SkullTraill

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i don’t consider it to be low in any way. To help others, you got to help yourself first. Many times people forget this.

I am sure that you will get the success you seek and even more than you can imagine.
Thank you for the kind words and the well wishes. I really appreciate it.

I actually meant it as low magick in the traditional definitions of low and high magick (at least from what I have learned so far) in the sense that high magick is used to approach divinity, and low magick is used to alter the physical world.

But yes, I agree completely. If you don't help yourself, you can never help others as much as you could if you did help yourself first. It's actually thought about recently regarding WF as well... how if I didn't help myself to get out of the rut I used to be in, I would never have been able to secure and invest in WF, which I hope one day will be able to help many people in many ways so that I can pay it forward!
 

Incognitus

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A lot of people are afraid to say that their main goal is wealth or success because it is seen as inferior to "the great work" or "approaching divinity" which are the traditionally respected goals of occult studies.

Wealth and control over one's material life is by definition "low magick" and sometimes seen as "unsavory".
I think a lot of this will be personal perspective. I've had the same job for 20 years, and in my mind for me, wealth is based on how hard I work, and what financial decisions I make. So for me, wealth doesn't really come into play with magick (not that I'm rich, FAR from it, but most of my financial problems were my own creation). Same as I would never wish for telekinesis to move a cup sitting on the kitchen counter. I have muscles and bones that can do that. That's not to say I look down on anyone who is interested in wealth magick. I only have a negative view of lazy people who think they're going to say a few words and a demon (or jinn or whatever) will pop up and vomit money bags into their laps. That's so unrealistic (tho if someone gets that to work, HOOK US UP).

This has all made me think about my original answer more. I would still say "knowledge", but how to define that is tricky because I keep falling back on subjective terms. I want to know "secrets", I want to know what the fabric of reality truly is, what other beings are out there, etc. What is the spark that turns us into thinking beings, rather than just being bags of meat. Are there other types of entities in other dimensions? If so, what are their lives like? Steve Savedow said in an interview that he thinks the demons that are evoked into the triangle has real physical bodies in their own dimension and that we essentially, forcefully whisk their soul out of their body into our own plane of existence. That is such an intriguing thought. That changes "demons" from vague forms of energy we can maybe manipulate into actual beings which may have their own wants and desires. I want to peak behind the curtain, so to speak.

Some of this for me came about due to experimenting with psychedelics. SWIM (for those not familiar, that means Someone Who Isn't Me, wink wink) did a 12 hour DMT trip many years ago. There were ... things, beings, whatever. Is that just a brain on chemicals? I dunno. It's possible, or maybe psychedelics open doors for some people they can't open by other means. All I know is, people talk about god like beings, etc. Not in my trip! I heard a vaguely female entity get very exasperated with me and tell me to STOP going there. It called me an idiot, even! Was that my own brain or was that something else? If something else, why wasn't I supposed to be there? More importantly, are there other ways to converse with those beings, if they exist?!

I suspect I know the answer (these beings are real), but maybe they are self manifested due to our own personal "energy" or whatever you want to call it. I just want to know "the truth", even tho that "truth" might only be relevant to me.
 

Jaide

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A stronger connection with the earth and more control over my surroundings. But not control in the sense of like evil overlord control. More moving energy to help me achieve and receive what I want and need on a personal level (which does not include being an evil overlord. So far.).
 

Incognitus

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A stronger connection with the earth and more control over my surroundings. But not control in the sense of like evil overlord control. More moving energy to help me achieve and receive what I want and need on a personal level (which does not include being an evil overlord. So far.).
I like how you leave the option available tho, hah!
 

SkullTraill

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I think a lot of this will be personal perspective. I've had the same job for 20 years, and in my mind for me, wealth is based on how hard I work, and what financial decisions I make. So for me, wealth doesn't really come into play with magick (not that I'm rich, FAR from it, but most of my financial problems were my own creation). Same as I would never wish for telekinesis to move a cup sitting on the kitchen counter. I have muscles and bones that can do that. That's not to say I look down on anyone who is interested in wealth magick. I only have a negative view of lazy people who think they're going to say a few words and a demon (or jinn or whatever) will pop up and vomit money bags into their laps. That's so unrealistic (tho if someone gets that to work, HOOK US UP).

This has all made me think about my original answer more. I would still say "knowledge", but how to define that is tricky because I keep falling back on subjective terms. I want to know "secrets", I want to know what the fabric of reality truly is, what other beings are out there, etc. What is the spark that turns us into thinking beings, rather than just being bags of meat. Are there other types of entities in other dimensions? If so, what are their lives like? Steve Savedow said in an interview that he thinks the demons that are evoked into the triangle has real physical bodies in their own dimension and that we essentially, forcefully whisk their soul out of their body into our own plane of existence. That is such an intriguing thought. That changes "demons" from vague forms of energy we can maybe manipulate into actual beings which may have their own wants and desires. I want to peak behind the curtain, so to speak.

Some of this for me came about due to experimenting with psychedelics. SWIM (for those not familiar, that means Someone Who Isn't Me, wink wink) did a 12 hour DMT trip many years ago. There were ... things, beings, whatever. Is that just a brain on chemicals? I dunno. It's possible, or maybe psychedelics open doors for some people they can't open by other means. All I know is, people talk about god like beings, etc. Not in my trip! I heard a vaguely female entity get very exasperated with me and tell me to STOP going there. It called me an idiot, even! Was that my own brain or was that something else? If something else, why wasn't I supposed to be there? More importantly, are there other ways to converse with those beings, if they exist?!

I suspect I know the answer (these beings are real), but maybe they are self manifested due to our own personal "energy" or whatever you want to call it. I just want to know "the truth", even tho that "truth" might only be relevant to me.
Oh yeah, while I'm no occult expert, I've definitely "been around the block" enough to know that no matter how bad I want it, money bags aren't gonna be falling into my lap. Whether it's a friend doing it for me, or me working on it myself, I use magick to secure jobs, business opportunities etc. I'm still fairly young, so seeking a higher paying job is always an option for me. As is moving abroad, and other such "improving my station" options. So it's definitely going to require my skill, patience and (begrudgingly) some hard work, but there's always opportunity for magick to help. Even if I was in a job for 20 years, I think I'd be using magick to have my work noticed and appreciated, open up space for promotions etc.

Though to be fair, in the next 5-7 years I want to transition from working to other sources of passive income (developing apps, starting a hot sauce business 😂 ) and I know road opening, money drawing, and wealth and success magick in general is definitely going to help me. It won't get me the money by itself, but it will help me have an easier time getting the money, which I am more than capable of.

Like, I have no issue with anyone thinking they can do it by themselves and therefore have no use of magick in that regard. Heck, I even understand why people put it below the pursuit of divine power/enlightenment. Who needs money when you're a God. But for me, while I'm young and still concerned with material comforts, it's valuable to me.

I fully agree with the notion that these types of material pursuits are within the "lower" realms of magick. But fuck man, it's been working alright for me, and if I can be a little more comfortable and also have the ability to work on my hobbies and projects that help others by being financially secure, then I'm definitely not gonna say no.

Because for me, my opinion is that once I'm dead, if there's existence beyond that... I'll have all the time I need to work on approaching divinity, enlightenment, and knowledge... haha.

I think I've dreamt of machine elves before (before I even knew what the occult, psychedelics, DMT etc were) and I'm really quite interested in having a DMT trip to see what the fuss is all about. I can definitely believe what people say about it, I just want to experience it for myself, because (maybe naively) I feel like I would be able to make some sense/assign some meaning/answer some of my personal philosophical mysteries through that type of experience.

I like to believe there's more to life and conciousness than just the material reality... but while material reality is all I know, I'd like it to be comfortable... :D
 

SkullTraill

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A stronger connection with the earth and more control over my surroundings. But not control in the sense of like evil overlord control. More moving energy to help me achieve and receive what I want and need on a personal level (which does not include being an evil overlord. So far.).
Why not a benevolent overload. Not evil. But still an overlord 😂

Y'all ever watch the anime "Overlord"?
 

Jaide

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Oh yeah, while I'm no occult expert, I've definitely "been around the block" enough to know that no matter how bad I want it, money bags aren't gonna be falling into my lap. Whether it's a friend doing it for me, or me working on it myself, I use magick to secure jobs, business opportunities etc. I'm still fairly young, so seeking a higher paying job is always an option for me. As is moving abroad, and other such "improving my station" options. So it's definitely going to require my skill, patience and (begrudgingly) some hard work, but there's always opportunity for magick to help. Even if I was in a job for 20 years, I think I'd be using magick to have my work noticed and appreciated, open up space for promotions etc.
Yep. Magick's a tool. You still have to do the work.
 

SkullTraill

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I...have to admit something. Please don't ban me.

I hate anime.
Hahah I've got no issue with that. I know loads of people who hate anime. I actually am not a fan of 99% of anime, but I give everything a shot, and there's been a few that have impressed me.
 

Jaide

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Hahah I've got no issue with that. I know loads of people who hate anime. I actually am not a fan of 99% of anime, but I give everything a shot, and there's been a few that have impressed me.
I mean, I can admit that some have good stories. But I hate it all. I don't really know why. It's a weird, visceral reaction. I play some games done in anime style, like Final Fantasy, but mostly I hate anime.
 

Yazata

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he thinks the demons that are evoked into the triangle has real physical bodies in their own dimension and that we essentially, forcefully whisk their soul out of their body into our own plane of existence. That is such an
Have you tried evoking humans? There are those who give their personal seal / emblem and want others to evoke them.
I did this twice. Once with someone who had asked me to and once with another person who didn't - and didn't know I was doing it.
I always make the spirits communicate in a foreign language. In the latter case it was Sumerian. The answers to my questions and other things it said were on point.
 

Incognitus

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Have you tried evoking humans? There are those who give their personal seal / emblem and want others to evoke them.
I did this twice. Once with someone who had asked me to and once with another person who didn't - and didn't know I was doing it.
I always make the spirits communicate in a foreign language. In the latter case it was Sumerian. The answers to my questions and other things it said were on point.
I can honestly say I've never thought of that. What an interesting idea!
 
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