[Opinion] Conspiracy, Suicide, and Vampirism

[Xenophon]

This could go into General Occult or LHP but I'm putting it here since it concerns a social issue: suicide & public attitudes. Recently I had to disabuse a kinswoman of the notion that the Netherlands sanctions suicide tourism. (She is in chronic pain &c&c.) So I decided to take a look into what's state of the art re: self-removal. I recall the net in its early days where just about anything was discussed. Now, page after page of suicide prevention sites/articles/screeds/and more.

On the one hand, I can understand a cautionary tone. Final decisions should not be made on impulse. And suicides have a bad tendency to become locally fashionable in outbreaks among certain collections of people (e.g., adolescents.) On the other, the (arguably) more functional civilizations of old Rome and Japan institutionalized the practice of suicide, subject to certain recognized conditions. The stuff I find online now is mostly squeamish semi-hysterics, "DON'T!!!" There are a few exceptions like the folks at Painless Pill, but these are scarce.

Of course mental health (read "people management," a.k.a. "the sanction of the put-upon") is a big concern in these times. It's a pretty clear sign that the lug nuts are loosening if you have to overtly teach people "life is worth living." A sign that they are coming off, if refresher lessons are needed. I am put very much in mind of the latter-day Gnostic Luis Felipe Moyano's teaching that the whole Judeo-Christian/humanist/progressive edifice is cover for civilization-wide psychic vampirism. In particular, the sufferings of the hopeless are savored as a sort of liqueur. So, of course suicide must be discouraged: pleasure is being denied to the adepts.

I'm not saying I believe this. For one thing, it violates Hanlon's Razor. (A useful implement; not an inviolable axiom.) Still it is worth pondering. Is the "sanctity of human life" at work in the anti-suicide ethos? Or are baser motives operative?

 

[Wintruz]

Still it is worth pondering. Is the "sanctity of human life" at work in the anti-suicide ethos? Or are baser motives operative?

There are some for whom "sanctity" is the driver but I don't think those old school believers are the dynamic force here. Suicide cannot be divorced from three principles which are very "bad for business".

One is that it is the ultimate in autonomy. Such flagrant displays of self-governance do not send a useful message to a public who might want to (GASP!) exercise similar autonomy over their lives.

The second principle is Death. It is impossible to overstate the neuroses around Death in contemporary Western societies (the East is catching up), which have turned ignoring it into an art form. In large part this is because it's literally bad for business (I wouldn't be in the least surprised if some corporations factor in suicides as a "non-retentive market"). People with their mind on what they're doing here and what it's leading to are generally less susceptible targets for advertising and financial game-playing, businesses which thrive on immersion, hypnosis and not "snapping out of it". All of this might align with the idea that suicide offends YHVH, since the sign of YHVH's blessing is the growth of GDP.

The third principle is virtue. A person who ends their life for reasons of honour or refusal to acclimatise to the world, are potent disrupters to the present order. It's also these people who must be dissuaded from it; those willing to die for these reasons, show themselves to have the virtue and sensitivity that the world needs. To paraphrase a quote I posted earlier, "those most suited to suicide are the least likely to try it".

The length of thy longing shall be the strength of its glory. He that lives long & desires death much is ever the King among the Kings ~ Liber AL II:74

I do not think this is part of an organised conspiracy, more a manifestation of a general zeitgeist which exists at different levels of awareness. At the lowest level, which encompasses hundreds of millions of people, they don't like suicide because Oprah did a sad episode on it. It really goes no further than that.

 

[stratamaster78]

I sort of had a gallows humor sort of reaction to the term 'self-removal'.

I won't get into the whole society morality part because honestly in my older age I've grown weary with philosophical type debate and leave it to those younger with more mental energy and stamina.

But mostly in North America where I reside it's frowned upon either for Religious reason having to do with Afterlife destination as they see it in a binary way or it's frowned upon because it's seen as someone who has a mental health problems and who needs help to correct or relieve these issues so that they can live a life without wanting to harm themselves.

Of course there are also emotions at play where people don't want their loved ones to 'exit' because of how much they would be missed.

But I don't really think there is this conspiracy network trying to keep people's tickers ticking because they need them to suffer for some twisted sustenance or something. The argument could be made that the world is overpopulated as it is and self culling would help it function more efficiently.

Dang it here I go letting myself get sucked into this when I said I wouldn't.

Anyway @Xenophon I feel for your kinswoman because I've had to witness multiple loved ones suffer from severe chronic pain and it's a sad state.

I don't know about the Netherlands policy on things but I know about 10 years ago I watched a Doc about a place in Oregon, USA that helped people exit by Drinking a Concoction that helps them just drift away peacefully in a really short time after consumption. It's called 'How to Die in Oregon' (2011).

 

[Xenophon]

There are some for whom "sanctity" is the driver but I don't think those old school believers are the dynamic force here. Suicide cannot be divorced from three principles which are very "bad for business".

One is that it is the ultimate in autonomy. Such flagrant displays of self-governance do not send a useful message to a public who might want to (GASP!) exercise similar autonomy over their lives.

The second principle is Death. It is impossible to overstate the neuroses around Death in contemporary Western societies (the East is catching up), which have turned ignoring it into an art form. In large part this is because it's literally bad for business (I wouldn't be in the least surprised if some corporations factor in suicides as a "non-retentive market"). People with their mind on what they're doing here and what it's leading to are generally less susceptible targets for advertising and financial game-playing, businesses which thrive on immersion, hypnosis and not "snapping out of it". All of this might align with the idea that suicide offends YHVH, since the sign of YHVH's blessing is the growth of GDP.

The third principle is virtue. A person who ends their life for reasons of honour or refusal to acclimatise to the world, are potent disrupters to the present order. It's also these people who must be dissuaded from it; those willing to die for these reasons, show themselves to have the virtue and sensitivity that the world needs. To paraphrase a quote I posted earlier, "those most suited to suicide are the least likely to try it".



I do not think this is part of an organised conspiracy, more a manifestation of a general zeitgeist which exists at different levels of awareness. At the lowest level, which encompasses hundreds of millions of people, they don't like suicide because Oprah did a sad episode on it. It really goes no further than that.

Quite likely you are correct. Rough convergence of interests produces rough convergence of attitudes and of behavior which---very roughly---can appear as a "conspiracy." If X, Y, Z already agree, what need to conspire if they're getting results?

Post automatically merged: Apr 13, 2024

I sort of had a gallows humor sort of reaction to the term 'self-removal'.

I won't get into the whole society morality part because honestly in my older age I've grown weary with philosophical type debate and leave it to those younger with more mental energy and stamina.

But mostly in North America where I reside it's frowned upon either for Religious reason having to do with Afterlife destination as they see it in a binary way or it's frowned upon because it's seen as someone who has a mental health problems and who needs help to correct or relieve these issues so that they can live a life without wanting to harm themselves.

Of course there are also emotions at play where people don't want their loved ones to 'exit' because of how much they would be missed.

But I don't really think there is this conspiracy network trying to keep people's tickers ticking because they need them to suffer for some twisted sustenance or something. The argument could be made that the world is overpopulated as it is and self culling would help it function more efficiently.

Dang it here I go letting myself get sucked into this when I said I wouldn't.

Anyway @Xenophon I feel for your kinswoman because I've had to witness multiple loved ones suffer from severe chronic pain and it's a sad state.

I don't know about the Netherlands policy on things but I know about 10 years ago I watched a Doc about a place in Oregon, USA that helped people exit by Drinking a Concoction that helps them just drift away peacefully in a really short time after consumption. It's called 'How to Die in Oregon' (2011).

The individual in question is an M.D. Any MD who can't work out the mechanics of the deed isn't trying. It's more a matter of mindset. Too many of us feel uneasy exercising initiative without official permission. Folks literally die more peacefully with a stamped and notarized permission slip from their doctor. (Contrast that with the seppuku-ing couple in Yukio Mishima's "Patriotism.")

 

[Tiana Silvermoon]

In my country government is so afraid of suicide so they even have a law about "suicide propaganda", making idea of incitement to suicide quite broad. Like, if I was to post somewhere what ways to end the earthly journey there are, I might very well end up in prison for a few years, but most likely the page where I was foolish enough to discuss such a thing would be removed or blocked.
I think it's ridiculous, but I don't think it's a conspiracy.

Mostly it's just people afraid to lose their loved ones even if they should look in the mirror instead of looking for evil outside.
And government of course doesn't want to lose it's units though it has a lot to think about in this regard too.

And of course sometimes there is a discussion if euthanasia is ethical and should be legal, but it's easier to let people suffer in agony than to make something about possible abuse of "legal suicide".

 

[8Lou1]

i think covid has shown that humans dont really bother if some say its time and human debris accepts. it goes both ways btw, how easy it was to say no more suffering pull the plug. done by family and medical personnel. how easy it was accepted that they had to die and be buried alone. how easy was it to scare the rest into taking a needle to stay alive. as long as debris doesnt have to realize their responsibility, they do anything.

 

[Xenophon]

I don't necessarily mind government taking a role. Maybe my distaste for present attitudes on suicide is mostly aesthetic. I can understand the Emperor forbidding the future General Nogi to commit suicide for as long as the former should live. Nogi had previously been an officer of great promise. I can't much wrap my head around forbidding suicide because "every life is precious." Much less can I get into the spirit of reducing the act to a "medical procedure" carried out by a physician. Maybe I am making bad opera of life and death. It remains an effort at art.

 

[8Lou1]

imho as psychopomp i think its forbidden cause suicide often creates nasty deaths who bother living people to heal what they couldnt while alive. its the only treason i can think of. that and money. when a business is loosing money, cutting down on personnel is a great way to restructure.

Post automatically merged: Apr 13, 2024

lol, nice typo...

 

[Ancient]

Politics aside, I've known animals of many type who wander away from home in old age or ill health and find somewhere quiet to lie down. I don't think there's anything wrong with seeking peace like that.

 

[Konsciencia]

Honestly, I had enough of this world, but that does not mean that I am suicidal. In the past, I tried ending my life multiple times. Yet, I'm still here. It is not up to me to go, but God's whoever the fuck God is. His one of the reasons I committed suicide in the first place. And let me tell you, based on my experiences. God is a handful motherfucker.