A.Nox — Introduction

[A.Nox]

Hello everyone,

I practice classical ceremonial magic and demonology, working directly from the grimoires rather than modern reinterpretations (Lemegeton/Ars Goetia, Goetia of Dr. Rudd, Heptameron structures, and some adapted operant frameworks).

My current focus is consistent, results-oriented work with Gaap — formal evocations, structured interaction, and pact-based operations. My interest is strictly in what produces measurable outcomes, not symbolic playacting or psychological metaphors.

I’m here to exchange field reports with practitioners who actually do the Work —
• real manifestations,
• operational successes,
• failed attempts and their causes,
• methods that proved reliable vs. methods that are mostly theater.

I’m not looking for a teacher, a guru, or validation.
I’m not interested in New Age framing, “demon boyfriends/girlfriends,” or archetypal reductionism.

I’m simply looking for people who can speak plainly about their practice without drowning it in aesthetics or mythologizing it to death.

Looking forward to meeting others who operate on that level.

— Nox

 

[hollowglasd]

Hello everyone,

I practice classical ceremonial magic and demonology, working directly from the grimoires rather than modern reinterpretations (Lemegeton/Ars Goetia, Goetia of Dr. Rudd, Heptameron structures, and some adapted operant frameworks).

My current focus is consistent, results-oriented work with Gaap — formal evocations, structured interaction, and pact-based operations. My interest is strictly in what produces measurable outcomes, not symbolic playacting or psychological metaphors.

I’m here to exchange field reports with practitioners who actually do the Work —
• real manifestations,
• operational successes,
• failed attempts and their causes,
• methods that proved reliable vs. methods that are mostly theater.

I’m not looking for a teacher, a guru, or validation.
I’m not interested in New Age framing, “demon boyfriends/girlfriends,” or archetypal reductionism.

I’m simply looking for people who can speak plainly about their practice without drowning it in aesthetics or mythologizing it to death.

Looking forward to meeting others who operate on that level.

— Nox

Welcome nox

 

[Sedim Haba]

Welcome!

 

[Mh4419]

Welcome mate

 

[Reaper]

Welcome

 

[TGOM Lover]

Welcome to the Forum! I am glad that you focused on results! I am also in that mode. I practice "The Gallery of Magick" books.

 

[Firetree]

Hello everyone,

I practice classical ceremonial magic and demonology, working directly from the grimoires rather than modern reinterpretations (Lemegeton/Ars Goetia, Goetia of Dr. Rudd, Heptameron structures, and some adapted operant frameworks).

My current focus is consistent, results-oriented work with Gaap — formal evocations, structured interaction, and pact-based operations. My interest is strictly in what produces measurable outcomes, not symbolic playacting or psychological metaphors.

I’m here to exchange field reports with practitioners who actually do the Work —
• real manifestations,
• operational successes,
• failed attempts and their causes,
• methods that proved reliable vs. methods that are mostly theater.

Hi. I am new too .

I have some experience , but not like yours . I would not say it was traditional though and probably 'modern reinterpretation ' and I incorporate a psychological approach . So it may not interest you . I did have a few books of detailed records , with sketches , paintings, and some photographs of the temple set up and equipment (its online somewhere ) . - 'retired ' now though .

But what 'came from ' those workings certainly has not retired . Things seem to have gone way beyond that now ( meaning I no longer do the ritual work and recording , I just enjoy the outcomes .

I’m not looking for a teacher, a guru, or validation.
I’m not interested in New Age framing, “demon boyfriends/girlfriends,” or archetypal reductionism.

I’m simply looking for people who can speak plainly about their practice without drowning it in aesthetics or mythologizing it to death.

Looking forward to meeting others who operate on that level.

— Nox

I think I can refrain from that though

 

[A.Nox]

Hi. I am new too .

I have some experience , but not like yours . I would not say it was traditional though and probably 'modern reinterpretation ' and I incorporate a psychological approach . So it may not interest you . I did have a few books of detailed records , with sketches , paintings, and some photographs of the temple set up and equipment (its online somewhere ) . - 'retired ' now though .

But what 'came from ' those workings certainly has not retired . Things seem to have gone way beyond that now ( meaning I no longer do the ritual work and recording , I just enjoy the outcomes .



I think I can refrain from that though

Thank you for sharing that — I actually appreciate honesty about where someone is in their practice.

Modern reinterpretations don’t bother me as long as they come from real experience and not from wishful thinking. Your approach sounds thoughtful, and the fact that you kept detailed records, sketches, and temple photographs says a lot about how seriously you treated your work.

I don’t mind psychological elements either, as long as they don’t replace the operational side.

If you ever feel like talking about the patterns or insights that stayed with you from those workings — even if you’re “retired” now — I would genuinely be interested.

No pressure, of course. Just a conversation between practitioners.

 

[Firetree]

For a start I can say it was long , grueling and complex ( but I was used to magick like that * ) . I had a lot of 'tools' and things but for this I decided to start from scratch . Making the temple and set ups ... just to start the consecration ceremonies for the 'tools / weapons ' and furnishings .

All sorts of things arose ; like issues with temperature - it got extremely hot ! the candles went floppy bent over double and pointed downwards . Insects invaded .... fire risks ! .... an exercise in perseverance !

- and mind you , this is just a single lone , evocation for one spirit that I did once ! Ended up being worth it though .... in the long run .

I will see if I can track down those images .

* meaning ; we ( my group ) used to perform The 'Rites of Eleusis ' most years for about a decade .

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

- The way we did it was an adaption and rewrite .... on the same planetary day of the week ; so Saturday, Thursday - a week later , Tuesday - a week later , and so on . That meant , in that period between ; a script re write , role allocation and learning parts , making costumes , soft furnishings of appropriate color in temple , same with 'hard furnishings' ... painting the planetary squares, right lighting and incense , etc . , So I was familiar with making and painting things and setting up and ..... 'innovations' ( eg . temple had a sand floor , I realized one can, at night , scribe sigils or designs in the sand, making a little furrow with the finger , fill it with spirit and ignite it .... flaming sigils )

 

[AlfrunGrima]

Hello everyone,

I practice classical ceremonial magic and demonology, working directly from the grimoires rather than modern reinterpretations (Lemegeton/Ars Goetia, Goetia of Dr. Rudd, Heptameron structures, and some adapted operant frameworks).

My current focus is consistent, results-oriented work with Gaap — formal evocations, structured interaction, and pact-based operations. My interest is strictly in what produces measurable outcomes, not symbolic playacting or psychological metaphors.

I’m here to exchange field reports with practitioners who actually do the Work —
• real manifestations,
• operational successes,
• failed attempts and their causes,
• methods that proved reliable vs. methods that are mostly theater.

I’m not looking for a teacher, a guru, or validation.
I’m not interested in New Age framing, “demon boyfriends/girlfriends,” or archetypal reductionism.

I’m simply looking for people who can speak plainly about their practice without drowning it in aesthetics or mythologizing it to death.

Looking forward to meeting others who operate on that level.

— Nox

I think you are in the right place, Welcome!

 

[A.Nox]

For a start I can say it was long , grueling and complex ( but I was used to magick like that * ) . I had a lot of 'tools' and things but for this I decided to start from scratch . Making the temple and set ups ... just to start the consecration ceremonies for the 'tools / weapons ' and furnishings .

All sorts of things arose ; like issues with temperature - it got extremely hot ! the candles went floppy bent over double and pointed downwards . Insects invaded .... fire risks ! .... an exercise in perseverance !

- and mind you , this is just a single lone , evocation for one spirit that I did once ! Ended up being worth it though .... in the long run .

I will see if I can track down those images .

* meaning ; we ( my group ) used to perform The 'Rites of Eleusis ' most years for about a decade .

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

- The way we did it was an adaption and rewrite .... on the same planetary day of the week ; so Saturday, Thursday - a week later , Tuesday - a week later , and so on . That meant , in that period between ; a script re write , role allocation and learning parts , making costumes , soft furnishings of appropriate color in temple , same with 'hard furnishings' ... painting the planetary squares, right lighting and incense , etc . , So I was familiar with making and painting things and setting up and ..... 'innovations' ( eg . temple had a sand floor , I realized one can, at night , scribe sigils or designs in the sand, making a little furrow with the finger , fill it with spirit and ignite it .... flaming sigils )

Thank you for sharing all of this — it was genuinely interesting to read.

I can see how much work, time, and discipline went into your temple setup and the adaptations you used.

My own practice is more operant and results-focused, so I rarely work with large performative structures, but I do appreciate hearing how others approach ceremonial frameworks — especially when it’s done with intention rather than aesthetics.

The planetary sequencing and the logistics behind the Rites of Eleusis are fascinating from a structural standpoint.

If you ever find those records or photographs you mentioned, I’d be curious to see them.

Thank you again for the warm welcome.

— Nox

 

[Vlitmer]

Hello everyone,

I practice classical ceremonial magic and demonology, working directly from the grimoires rather than modern reinterpretations (Lemegeton/Ars Goetia, Goetia of Dr. Rudd, Heptameron structures, and some adapted operant frameworks).

My current focus is consistent, results-oriented work with Gaap — formal evocations, structured interaction, and pact-based operations. My interest is strictly in what produces measurable outcomes, not symbolic playacting or psychological metaphors.

I’m here to exchange field reports with practitioners who actually do the Work —
• real manifestations,
• operational successes,
• failed attempts and their causes,
• methods that proved reliable vs. methods that are mostly theater.

I’m not looking for a teacher, a guru, or validation.
I’m not interested in New Age framing, “demon boyfriends/girlfriends,” or archetypal reductionism.

I’m simply looking for people who can speak plainly about their practice without drowning it in aesthetics or mythologizing it to death.

Looking forward to meeting others who operate on that level.

— Nox

welcome. I like the way you descried your methodology and the academic/scientific approach you are taking to your practices as it pertains to looking for and documenting measurable results, I'm very interested to learn more from you and your work as you post more in the forums.

what kind measurable outcomes do you look for to document in your field reports? sadly, I can't say I've experienced anything exponential in my practices as my focuses produce more metaphysical results like visions, prophetic dreams, effective symbolism, meditation and ego control. I've gravitated towards these as I seem to have a naturally high intuition that mimics much of what Jung talks about with synchronicity.

regardless, I'd be more than happy to help you with your field work and share information regarding my practices if you think it would help.

 

[A.Nox]

welcome. I like the way you descried your methodology and the academic/scientific approach you are taking to your practices as it pertains to looking for and documenting measurable results, I'm very interested to learn more from you and your work as you post more in the forums.

what kind measurable outcomes do you look for to document in your field reports? sadly, I can't say I've experienced anything exponential in my practices as my focuses produce more metaphysical results like visions, prophetic dreams, effective symbolism, meditation and ego control. I've gravitated towards these as I seem to have a naturally high intuition that mimics much of what Jung talks about with synchronicity.

regardless, I'd be more than happy to help you with your field work and share information regarding my practices if you think it would help.

Thank you for the thoughtful welcome.

When I talk about measurable outcomes, I’m usually referring to concrete, verifiable changes resulting from evocation work — external shifts, information obtained that I had no access to beforehand, or the successful completion of specific tasks requested during ritual.

I tend to document those rather than subjective states.

Your focus sounds very different from mine, but it’s interesting in its own right.

Symbolism, dreams, and intuitively-driven work can reveal a lot about the practitioner’s internal architecture, even if the operational mechanisms differ.

I appreciate the offer — as I post more, I’m sure there will be points of shared interest.

— Nox

 

[Firetree]

Thank you for sharing all of this — it was genuinely interesting to read.

I can see how much work, time, and discipline went into your temple setup and the adaptations you used.

My own practice is more operant and results-focused, so I rarely work with large performative structures, but I do appreciate hearing how others approach ceremonial frameworks — especially when it’s done with intention rather than aesthetics.

The planetary sequencing and the logistics behind the Rites of Eleusis are fascinating from a structural standpoint.

If you ever find those records or photographs you mentioned, I’d be curious to see them.

Thank you again for the warm welcome.

— Nox

I found their location ... 2013 it was posted, now it just has a little box with an X through it and jpeg number . I am a 'computer low-tec ' ( meaning ; dumbnut ... hopeless ) so I dont know if they are retrievable ? There is one other place I am trying to find them .

However a lot of it is still remembered . One thing I soon discovered is that some writings about these types of rituals dont make sense ... in that I dont think the author themselves even tried to do it . Dont make sense .... in the area of ; if I make the circle X big then w y and z will fit into it and I will not be able to have enough space .

I settled for this type of altar arrangement based on Tree of Life in a 'tau' shape ;

How would one ever work in this ^ circle ? Maybe this is what you mean by 'aesthetics' ( that are not practical ) ?

I will describe mine ; in a large space , sand floor approx 3 m radius circle made with black irrigation pipe ( I used different names than those shown above ) The tau was made of cubes , hip height and the colors similar . A brazier (made by local blacksmith ) with fire stood off to the side and the circle had lit candles around it . The triangle had the sigil in it with a censor on a stand over it .

The 'weapons' were placed on the appropriate colors / sephiroth . The idea is yopu can actually be IN the circle and walk around inside it and do things .

 

[A.Nox]

I found their location ... 2013 it was posted, now it just has a little box with an X through it and jpeg number . I am a 'computer low-tec ' ( meaning ; dumbnut ... hopeless ) so I dont know if they are retrievable ? There is one other place I am trying to find them .

However a lot of it is still remembered . One thing I soon discovered is that some writings about these types of rituals dont make sense ... in that I dont think the author themselves even tried to do it . Dont make sense .... in the area of ; if I make the circle X big then w y and z will fit into it and I will not be able to have enough space .

I settled for this type of altar arrangement based on Tree of Life in a 'tau' shape ;

How would one ever work in this ^ circle ? Maybe this is what you mean by 'aesthetics' ( that are not practical ) ?

I will describe mine ; in a large space , sand floor approx 3 m radius circle made with black irrigation pipe ( I used different names than those shown above ) The tau was made of cubes , hip height and the colors similar . A brazier (made by local blacksmith ) with fire stood off to the side and the circle had lit candles around it . The triangle had the sigil in it with a censor on a stand over it .

The 'weapons' were placed on the appropriate colors / sephiroth . The idea is yopu can actually be IN the circle and walk around inside it and do things .

That actually sounds far more coherent than you give yourself credit for.

Your description shows something most people never develop:

you adapted the system to real spatial and practical constraints instead of forcing yourself into an unusable aesthetic template.

The fact that you remember the structure, the ratios, and the logic behind what you built — even after so many years — says a lot about the work you put into it.

Many practitioners get lost in ornamentation.

You clearly paid attention to function:

• mobility inside the circle

• visibility of markers

• heat placement

• and how the operator actually moves during the rite.

That level of awareness is rare.

If you ever find the old files, great — but honestly, the way you reconstructed it from memory already shows the underlying architecture of your practice.

That’s the part that matters.

 

[Firetree]

Thanks .... I can remember accurately a LOT more than that .

I think this is a HUGE problem nowadays . Not only do so many people not remember events , history ( mean 'personal history' like dont remember past failures or what happened before that should have been a learning experience ) , agreements and arrangements , etc .

Thats one reason why we wanted people to learn their parts in the Rites ... IMO having someone read off a script in a ritual ? No thanks ! Especially an initiation ritual !

Rite of Luna was a challenge with its role for Pan having several long poems ( and 9 libations throughout the performance ... ok , I admit my oration may have got a little slurred towards the end )

Indigenous ( oral knowledge ) memory seems impossible to the modern person .

- here is a memory ( and innovation ) from the ritual ; during the long weeks of making and preparation I got to the stage of making 'the magic ring ' ( supposedly enables one to see spirits ) . For some reason * I decided not to make a finger ring but a disc and paint it ( certain colors, symbols, words on it ) but then I was ; 'Thats not a ring though is it ?' so I cut a hole in the middle . I wasn't sure how to use it so it just sat on the altar . During the evocation , yeah, there was plenty of smoke spiraling up from the censor in the triangle and I 'felt' something had manifested in there , but I could not see anything . I got a bit frustrated and again * I picked up the 'ring' , too big to fit on my finger , so I looked through the hole in the middle ... nope, nothing . Then I * closed my eyes and held the hole in the ring over my 'third eye ' .... AHA! there's the little bugga ! ( thats how a got a sketch of it in my book ) .

But not a 'physical manifestation ' ... so fail ! ( as some say ) .


* my life has been full of doing things 'for some reason ' (consciously unaware ) that turned out great !

? ;

 

[A.Nox]

Thanks .... I can remember accurately a LOT more than that .

I think this is a HUGE problem nowadays . Not only do so many people not remember events , history ( mean 'personal history' like dont remember past failures or what happened before that should have been a learning experience ) , agreements and arrangements , etc .

Thats one reason why we wanted people to learn their parts in the Rites ... IMO having someone read off a script in a ritual ? No thanks ! Especially an initiation ritual !

Rite of Luna was a challenge with its role for Pan having several long poems ( and 9 libations throughout the performance ... ok , I admit my oration may have got a little slurred towards the end )

Indigenous ( oral knowledge ) memory seems impossible to the modern person .

- here is a memory ( and innovation ) from the ritual ; during the long weeks of making and preparation I got to the stage of making 'the magic ring ' ( supposedly enables one to see spirits ) . For some reason * I decided not to make a finger ring but a disc and paint it ( certain colors, symbols, words on it ) but then I was ; 'Thats not a ring though is it ?' so I cut a hole in the middle . I wasn't sure how to use it so it just sat on the altar . During the evocation , yeah, there was plenty of smoke spiraling up from the censor in the triangle and I 'felt' something had manifested in there , but I could not see anything . I got a bit frustrated and again * I picked up the 'ring' , too big to fit on my finger , so I looked through the hole in the middle ... nope, nothing . Then I * closed my eyes and held the hole in the ring over my 'third eye ' .... AHA! there's the little bugga ! ( thats how a got a sketch of it in my book ) .

But not a 'physical manifestation ' ... so fail ! ( as some say ) .


* my life has been full of doing things 'for some reason ' (consciously unaware ) that turned out great !

? ;

That actually clarifies a lot — especially the part about memory and oral tradition.

You’re right: most people today rely on scripts because they have no internal map of the rite.

When the structure isn’t embodied, the moment anything unexpected happens, the whole operation collapses.

What you described is the exact opposite of that.

You weren’t “reading a ritual.”

You were building a system while performing it — and that requires a type of memory that comes from actual practice, not memorizing lines.

Your “ring” experiment is a perfect example:

• you identified a functional problem (the object wasn’t giving you a point of focus)

• you modified it based on intuition

• and the intuitive solution ended up producing the result

Most practitioners would have forced themselves to use the object “as intended” and then blamed the spirit or the ritual when nothing happened.

You didn’t.

You adapted — and the adaptation worked.

Physical manifestation or not, that’s not a failure.

A failure is when someone doesn’t even notice why their structure isn’t working.

The fact that you can recall the details, the ratios, the sequence, the sensations — decades later — says far more about your competence than any polished ceremonial script ever would.

Some people memorize rituals.

Others understand them.

You’re clearly in the second category.

 

[Firetree]

Geeze ! most people just say I am full of sh*t

You made a great point here :

'' When the structure isn’t embodied, the moment anything unexpected happens, the whole operation collapses.''

This can be amusing in a more public situation like rites of Eleusis or a say ... a casual Wiccan right ... I have seen it done and it was amusing .

In an evocation it can have more serious consequences . In an initiation ... it is just not on ! ( I put my foot down there )

'This is this person's initiation ... make it good for them ! ( yes, I have been a chartered initiator for a traditional system ) In practice with the officers (and for people training to be an initiator themselves ) I would often interrupt , or get them to start from a point other than the start *
or, at those places where the script may be 'open ' (eg for the candidates unprompted response ) I would play that part and make a radical response .

* I also did this in martial arts when teaching kata .... do the last half from this technique onwards . The so called ' senior ' could never do it ! He always had to start from the beginning , get to tat point and then he would remember the rest .

here is a hint ;

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

and using landscape (indigenous method );

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

 

[A.Nox]

Geeze ! most people just say I am full of sh*t

You made a great point here :

'' When the structure isn’t embodied, the moment anything unexpected happens, the whole operation collapses.''

This can be amusing in a more public situation like rites of Eleusis or a say ... a casual Wiccan right ... I have seen it done and it was amusing .

In an evocation it can have more serious consequences . In an initiation ... it is just not on ! ( I put my foot down there )

'This is this person's initiation ... make it good for them ! ( yes, I have been a chartered initiator for a traditional system ) In practice with the officers (and for people training to be an initiator themselves ) I would often interrupt , or get them to start from a point other than the start *
or, at those places where the script may be 'open ' (eg for the candidates unprompted response ) I would play that part and make a radical response .

* I also did this in martial arts when teaching kata .... do the last half from this technique onwards . The so called ' senior ' could never do it ! He always had to start from the beginning , get to tat point and then he would remember the rest .

here is a hint ;

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

and using landscape (indigenous method );

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Your background as a chartered initiator actually explains a lot —
especially the way you approach structure, memory, and responsibility in ritual work.

Most people never think in terms of maintaining the architecture of the operation,
or adjusting precisely when something unexpected happens.

That mindset only comes from real initiatory training.

Out of curiosity —
what did you find to be the hardest part when training someone to become an initiator themselves?
Not technically, but in terms of mindset and readiness.

You mentioned you often interrupted candidates to reset their starting point —
did anyone ever completely freeze under pressure, or did they rise to the challenge?

I’m curious how people reacted to your teaching style.

 

[Firetree]

Your background as a chartered initiator actually explains a lot —
especially the way you approach structure, memory, and responsibility in ritual work.

Most people never think in terms of maintaining the architecture of the operation,
or adjusting precisely when something unexpected happens.

That mindset only comes from real initiatory training.

Out of curiosity —
what did you find to be the hardest part when training someone to become an initiator themselves?
Not technically, but in terms of mindset and readiness.

I will speak about 'initiation officers' generally . I am finding it hard to think what the hardest part was . It was mostly good stuff. I would say its hard to find the right magical people , but in a group with a specific focus there were a few choices . I suppose the hardest part is doing that with people that have a larger ego , are selfish, clutch for power, have other agendas , are not 'thesbians' . The initiations are in the form of dramatic ritual ) and my specific style - and hence the group's - was to present things to the best of our ability . But people like that dont often get to the degrees that is wise to draw officers from , and initiators - higher degrees again .

Always exceptions of course .

You mentioned you often interrupted candidates to reset their starting point —

? Ooops ... I meant officers , in practicing the rituals , often in that case I would be aside helping , or be one of the officers , or play the candidates part ..... sometimes I would be a 'naughty candidate ' .... ( actually , I cant recall a 'naughty candidate in any of the rituals anywhere ..... some might say I was one )

Oooo I could tell some stories about that ! (not here though )

did anyone ever completely freeze under pressure, or did they rise to the challenge?

Not in my local group . There are are ways around that . I came very close to it once myself , right at the beginning of an initiation ceremony ; Every thing was going great , the set up, the temple looked great , I had good officers , a few members there to witness . All eyes are on me as 'the example'. The Candidate , a good friend made a year or so back when he came into the group , a lot older than us , very old actually but dedicated and sincere . Everyone is waiting on me , I am calm and still .... no doubt they are thinking I am gathering energy or focus or something .....


Inside I am ' What the hell is the first line ... whatthehellisthefirstline ... whatthehellisthefirstline .... whatthehellisthefirstline ... noooooo ! '

- Nothing worked - blank ! After a little panic I told myself to calm down and think ..... start from the beginning; what is this about and why am I here ? .... I am here to do Br N ....'s ........ initiation .....

'' < Ahem > Brethren, we are gathered here today to celebrate Br N .... 's ...... '' - that was a close one .

Apparently my initial bluff worked , later people told me I started off very calm and 'dignified ' - I fessed up later .

I’m curious how people reacted to your teaching style.

Ohhh they hated it and bitched about it ........ but then had a justified mild pride in how well we did things . Once we went to a shared group Rites of Eleusis down in the big city (we were a rural group ) with different traditions doing a rite each . We did Luna and blew them all and our audience out the water .

Same with the other side of things ..... did some 'seminar' type of stuff too , our 'demos' were very well recieved , we were known to have a distinctive style and effect .

Ya get out what ya put in ( plus a bit more if you mix it right )

Anyway ... you said you were here to exchange .... must be your turn soon ?