Is Enochian magic dangerous?

[Butterfly Affect]

I've only read that this type of magick had claims of being "dangerous" around one or two days ago. I know I did an Enochian ritual a few months ago, but it was a protection type ritual. Are the claims just from people who think all magic is dangerous, or is Enochian magick specifically risky?

 

[jkeller293]

Are the claims just from people who think all magic is dangerous

I would think this would be the answer. There is a practicioner i follow on youtube that films himself doing enochian magic and it to me does not seem dangerous at all compared to other stuff in the LHP. Pretty much its just getting messages not the act of changing things.

 

[stalkinghyena]

I think the only real danger is the potential for developing a speech impediment from all the tongue twister words.

@Lurker brought up a good point regarding Paul Foster Case in a recent thread regarding the Shem. I recall some debates around his perspective of Enochian being fatally dangerous because he lost a dear friend who used it to some horrible disease. He blamed the magic, though later I read his perspective was rooted in the notion that the system is incomplete and unexplored.

Donald Tyson seemed to me be heavily fixated on the apocalyptic aspects of Enochian, but I recall at some point he walked that back at some point and said he meant "personal apocalypse" as in a self-realization type thing.

I have used Enochian for years as part of my work and, aside from the occasional freak weather even coinciding with the use of certain calls, I don't think it is any more dangerous than the Simon Necronomicon, and a lot of people think that's just a sham.

Also, I think the spirits I have interacted with are quite witty and have a great sense of humor.

 

[Faria]

During WWII, the US used Navajo language as a way to make sure the enemies wouldn't understand it. It was deeply buried in the remote desert southwest, and required such specialized knowledge that even Americans had no knowledge of it. I mention this because it's something you're likely to have heard of and understand why that would be important.

In a similar fashion, Mathers & Co. used Enochian as something so ridiculously British that nobody else could possibly understand it. They used Enochian as a way to claim exclusivity, a secret magical system over which they were the only custodians. They reserved it for their hidden inner order. Mathers wanted desperately to be involved in global politics and his magical order was his primary asset in the political game that would become World War I.

Along comes Aleister Crowley and connects it with the idea of ditching all social life for a bit and going off on astral adventures in ascending planes. The whole scene got mixed in with drugs and all sorts of other weird things, and a lot of the magical people got fairly unhinged. It became fashionable to blame these exotic magical systems rather than the obvious when it came to life troubles, and so the Enochian system has retained that reputation.

It was overhyped. It remains overhyped. It is just another version of the 4 elements and 7 planets, the 12 signs, and so on. It has some unique points, but it's not the ultimate western magical system.

 

[Adelina]

I don't think that Enochian Magic is in any way dangerous.

There are 3 major points that raise many doubts about this system:

1. This system was born with Edward Kelly being medium for John Dee. However, Edward Kelly was well-known con artist (he even had his ears removed from him as punishment for forgery). At one point Kelly said that Angels insisted that he and John Dee exchanged wives for the sex. This sounds as VERY big sign for alert.

2. John Dee was a special secrent agent for the queen. He used various ciphers to hide political information.

3. It seems rather strange that Enochian Language, the language of much higher Beings, is much more primitive than most languages of mankind. It lacks in everything - in vowels, in consonants, in flexibility.

 

[Robert Ramsay]

No more dangerous than any other magical system. Even the sharpest tools can be handled safely.

 

[Butterfly Affect]

Thanks for the responses. For a long time I only knew about Enochian Magic through skimming the Damon Brand books and didn't know there was an entire centuries old history and controversy around it, and I quickly became overwhelmed with information while searching. Reddit specifically would have like 10 completely unique answers to the question.

 

[Mannimarco]

I haven't gotten too far in Enochian, but I have a few impressions. I wouldn't use the word dangerous, but it is more advanced than other popular systems. Everything in the system seems to release a lot of energy very easily, which could be dangerous if your energy body is weak or unhealthy. The angels also have a very different vibe than other angels. I wouldn't say they are dangerous exactly, but a person needs to be quite firm with them. They can manifest at random times even if a person is just reading enochian magick books.
A person doesn't need to be the Sorcerer Supreme to work Enochian magick, but perhaps something like an intermediate practioner, or at least advanced beginner, would be appropriate.

 

[bartyblack]

I've only read that this type of magick had claims of being "dangerous" around one or two days ago. I know I did an Enochian ritual a few months ago, but it was a protection type ritual. Are the claims just from people who think all magic is dangerous, or is Enochian magick specifically risky?

Enochian is not specifically risky. Just using the Angelical language and whatnot will not upend your life. What is dangerous is trying to use the system without the proper tools, which are all VERY CLEARLY elucidated in the diaries. The problem is the Golden Dawn/Crowley system is what got popularized, and said system invents all sorts of nonsensical bs like magick pyramids and focuses on Aethyr travelling, and completely ignores all the requiremed equipment like the PELE ring. Almost all the insane stories you hear of people vanishing or having freak accidents, losing their marbles etc. after practicing Enochian is due to their not following the rules of the system and trying to super-impose whatever 19th century English trash over a perfectly functional Renaissance magickal system. If you approach any system of magick in an idiotic and nearly-willfully ignorant manner, shit happens and it's not pretty. Look at what the Arbatel says about kakomagi, which can be read as either Goetic practitioners and sorcerors, or else as kako-magi, shitty magicians.

On that some note, most people who report issues specifically with the Watchtower spirits is directly because they don't follow the directions in the diaries. Dee was given instructions to craft a book of invocations, then to consecrate it over 19 days of prayer, concluding on the 19th day with an actual conjuration of all those spirits. From thence they are bound to the book, which is never to be opened again, and the robe worn for that ceremony is to never be used. Just calling on them all willy-nilly is not the way to get the best results from them. It may work, but you are at the mercy of their Seniors until you make said book.

Enochian is not a magickal system for small goals. It's for things that are a bit bigger than yourself, which is part of why it is intended for adepts only. Part of adepthood is recognizing when Archangel Michael says "Do nothing without this ring," you damn well do absolutely nothing in that magickal system without that ring. This system, like all other serious magickal systems, requires dedication - not slavish devotion, mind - and a certain seriousness that forces you to recognize your place in the grand scheme of reality. You're dealing with spirits who govern wars at sea and the discovery of veins of gold in the earth, whose goals are to establish empires and move society in different directions. It's a different mindset than the rest of magickal practice.

 

[Yazata]

I have a feeling there's a lot of gatekeeping when it comes to Enochian. To me it's a system that allows for a lot of experimentation but as with many other things there's way more people reading and talking about it than doing it.

 

[Johny111]

I think the main question is what is the purpose of Enochian magic? Why would anyone even engage in it? Can anyone testify that they have achieved any meaningful outcome by practicing Enochian magic? In what way has the practice helped someone perfect their being?

 

[Faria]

I have a feeling there's a lot of gatekeeping when it comes to Enochian. To me it's a system that allows for a lot of experimentation but as with many other things there's way more people reading and talking about it than doing it.

The few people who are able to self profess as Enochian Magicians are all doing very different things, and they all think they have the more correct version of it. And not small differences, but wholly different conceptions of what Enochian is and what goes into practicing it.

I think the main question is what is the purpose of Enochian magic? Why would anyone even engage in it? Can anyone testify that they have achieved any meaningful outcome by practicing Enochian magic? In what way has the practice helped someone perfect their being?

The few and famous people who pioneered it (Dee, Mathers, Crowley, maybe Ben Rowe too) all saw the whole world on the edge of very new and very exciting horizons. Dee saw the British Empire, Mathers saw Industrialization, Crowley saw a variety of social revolutions soon to occur, and Ben Rowe was into computers before that was cool. Enochian didn't have the baggage associated with most other peoples' religions, and gave those people a way to express and engage with something novel without being in completely foreign territory. They made it less about themselves and more about where they saw the world headed. Tyson's apocalyptic interpretation of the Keys supports that as well, the system is at least partiallty about guiding the whole world through the ages and participating in its spiritual government. Colin Campbell says it is just elemental and planetary magic at its core, and can be used for personal and practical things as any other cabinet of spells and pentacles, and frankly he seems to be doing pretty well so maybe there's something to that too.

 

[Johny111]

The few and famous people who pioneered it (Dee, Mathers, Crowley, maybe Ben Rowe too) all saw the whole world on the edge of very new and very exciting horizons. Dee saw the British Empire, Mathers saw Industrialization, Crowley saw a variety of social revolutions soon to occur, and Ben Rowe was into computers before that was cool. Enochian didn't have the baggage associated with most other peoples' religions, and gave those people a way to express and engage with something novel without being in completely foreign territory. They made it less about themselves and more about where they saw the world headed. Tyson's apocalyptic interpretation of the Keys supports that as well, the system is at least partiallty about guiding the whole world through the ages and participating in its spiritual government. Colin Campbell says it is just elemental and planetary magic at its core, and can be used for personal and practical things as any other cabinet of spells and pentacles, and frankly he seems to be doing pretty well so maybe there's something to that too.

Can I conclude that Enochian magic is intended for serious initiates? However, what is the point of someone who is a beginner in magic, or someone who has not achieved any significant achievement, who is not sufficiently developed, entering this field at all? I know many people who try to practice Enochian magic, but even after so many years, they are still the same mediocre ones they were, they have not achieved anything significant, except that in the meantime they have gained additional weight. So, Enochian magic is not a tool for the improvement of the average, but a tool for the advanced, and for special purposes. Do you think I'm right?

 

[8Lou1]

I think its quite normal to find a counter act after youve done a working.

 

[ArchonLynx]

Depends on how you feel & how you treat them.

 

[Rasputin_618]

I've only read that this type of magick had claims of being "dangerous" around one or two days ago. I know I did an Enochian ritual a few months ago, but it was a protection type ritual. Are the claims just from people who think all magic is dangerous, or is Enochian magick specifically risky?

Look up what Paul Foster Case of the Golden Dawn and Builders of the Adytum though about Enochian. I just want you to hear multiple opinions before you decide on your course of action.

 

[Yvonne]

Can I conclude that Enochian magic is intended for serious initiates? However, what is the point of someone who is a beginner in magic, or someone who has not achieved any significant achievement, who is not sufficiently developed, entering this field at all? I know many people who try to practice Enochian magic, but even after so many years, they are still the same mediocre ones they were, they have not achieved anything significant, except that in the meantime they have gained additional weight. So, Enochian magic is not a tool for the improvement of the average, but a tool for the advanced, and for special purposes. Do you think I'm right?

Have the successful ones gained weight ? Is the weight incidental ?

Post automatically merged: Jun 6, 2025

A true story :

I know someone who was badly assaulted . He contacted a commercial occultist for revenge and was given what was called an enochian talisman. He was told to place it in a drawer on its own so he emptied a dressing table drawer and put it in.

A couple of months later he was cycling and began to feel very weird and frightened and panic. He had the thought "that talisman is driving me mad" and an image of it in the drawer came to his head . He ended on tranquilizers and in a hospital for anxiety . The occultist said there was no danger and ,if there was it was the occultist , as the operator who took the risk

He showed me a photo of the talisman . It was parchment with symbols I can't recall . It looked to me they were printed like from a print works.

Personally I think he just developed anxiety from the stress of the assault and that the occultist was a con artist sending out mass produced parchment with strange symbols .

I don't know much about enochian but i often think of that story when I read of it

 

[Frater R.P.G.]

I've only read that this type of magick had claims of being "dangerous" around one or two days ago. I know I did an Enochian ritual a few months ago, but it was a protection type ritual. Are the claims just from people who think all magic is dangerous, or is Enochian magick specifically risky?

As someone that worked with Enochian magic for over a decade, I'd say it's more effective than anything else I've tried, and so if misapplied, can be obviously more dangerous. Great power, great responsibility and all that jazz. At the same time, the system is very complex in theory and (IMO) no simple books have yet been written (despite many attempts) to allow a novice approach the system, hence it tends to be seen as something more advanced, even though it really is not much different from various other systems.

@Lurker brought up a good point regarding Paul Foster Case in a recent thread regarding the Shem. I recall some debates around his perspective of Enochian being fatally dangerous because he lost a dear friend who used it to some horrible disease. He blamed the magic, though later I read his perspective was rooted in the notion that the system is incomplete and unexplored.

I read Case's letters to Regardie. I can't find them now, but from what I remember, he didn't mention anything about a friend. My impression was that his opposition to Enochian was rooted in his dislike of Kelley given his shady reputation.

It is just another version of the 4 elements and 7 planets, the 12 signs, and so on.

I do agree with this.

It was overhyped. It remains overhyped.

...but not with this. I don't know what it is about Enochian, but it IS much more effective than other similar systems.

 

[Asteriskos]

Okay, for what this is worth. According to Dolores Ashcroft-Nowiki, a student of W.E. Butler, a Student of Dion Violet Firth Fortune, the trick is "Sonics", in the same fashion as other systems that feature "Sonorous Names and Words of Power". IF, it's going to Work at All, the "vibratory rate", and pacing, would need to be arrived at by trial and error. Excuse me but I'll go Graeco-Egyptian thank you kindly.

Personally I wouldn't put much stock in any system where Edward Kelly asked me to "swap wives" with him! I would however put My foot upon his Ass and send him packing! @Faria has some good points too. I'd like to add that nearly Everything Crowley had of any value he stole from Mathers and Alan Bennett. The few Original pieces he contributed to the WMT are sort kinda minor. I like a few of the "moves" in the Star Ruby, but the Banishing Ritual of Hekas is Better! People have been arguing over this shit since Elizabethan times. Get some Chaos Glossolalia, and contribute to their dictionary of "Barbarous Words", unless you've got Something Better to do? I know I do!

Post automatically merged: Jul 31, 2025

Okay, for what this is worth. According to Dolores Ashcroft-Nowiki, a student of W.E. Butler, a Student of Dion Violet Firth Fortune, the trick is "Sonics", in the same fashion as other systems that feature "Sonorous Names and Words of Power". IF, it's going to Work at All, the "vibratory rate", and pacing, would need to be arrived at by trial and error. Excuse me but I'll go Graeco-Egyptian thank you kindly.

Personally I wouldn't put much stock in any system where Edward Kelly asked me to "swap wives" with him! I would however put My foot upon his Ass and send him packing! @Faria has some good points too. I'd like to add that nearly Everything Crowley had of any value he stole from Mathers and Alan Bennett. The few Original pieces he contributed to the WMT are sort kinda minor. I like a few of the "moves" in the Star Ruby, but the Banishing Ritual of Hekas is Better! People have been arguing over this shit since Elizabethan times. Get some Chaos Glossolalia, and contribute to their dictionary of "Barbarous Words", unless you've got Something Better to do? I know I do!

Paul Foster Case thought it WAS dangerous. Mina Mathers expelled him from the the offshoot Alpha et Omega for a "Romantic" alliance with another female Officer in the New York Temple. Enochian is one of the few pieces of the system that he later Refused (with prejudice) to incorporate when he decided to launcn his BOTA - Builders of the Adytum order. I believe he genuinely thought it Was Dangerous, as he gives example/s of people going over the edge from practicing it. So does Dolores Ashcroft-Nowicki as well. A little research is all it takes to uncover this stuff. Some people have "Marketed" the system to good effect: Gerald and Betty Schuler and Lon Milo Duquette's books are popular in some circles, there are some more too. Perform a rite for yourself, Learn Israel Regardie's "Opening by Watchtower". Pay especial attention to what happens "within" yourself before looking for anything External. Learn to Think for Yourself. A Magician who is not Iintrepid is to be pitied?

 

[cherryaqua]

Personally I wouldn't put much stock in any system where Edward Kelly asked me to "swap wives" with him! I would however put My foot upon his Ass and send him packing! @Faria has some good points too. I'd like to add that nearly Everything Crowley had of any value he stole from Mathers and Alan Bennett. The few Original pieces he contributed to the WMT are sort kinda minor. I like a few of the "moves" in the Star Ruby, but the Banishing Ritual of Hekas is Better! People have been arguing over this shit since Elizabethan times. Get some Chaos Glossolalia, and contribute to their dictionary of "Barbarous Words", unless you've got Something Better to do? I know I do!

Post automatically merged: Jul 31, 2025

Paul Foster Case thought it WAS dangerous. Mina Mathers expelled him from the the offshoot Alpha et Omega for a "Romantic" alliance with another female Officer in the New York Temple. Enochian is one of the few pieces of the system that he later Refused (with prejudice) to incorporate when he decided to launcn his BOTA - Builders of the Adytum order. I believe he genuinely thought it Was Dangerous, as he gives example/s of people going over the edge from practicing it. So does Dolores Ashcroft-Nowicki as well. A little research is all it takes to uncover this stuff. Some people have "Marketed" the system to good effect: Gerald and Betty Schuler and Lon Milo Duquette's books are popular in some circles, there are some more too. Perform a rite for yourself, Learn Israel Regardie's "Opening by Watchtower". Pay especial attention to what happens "within" yourself before looking for anything External. Learn to Think for Yourself. A Magician who is not Iintrepid is to be pitied?

I find the wife swapping incident not at all a reason to disbelieve it. Kelly may have had a bad reputation, but he’s the one that wanted to stop the experiments with enochian and Dee had to persuade him to keep going.

It could have been a form of initiation. As in, learning that nothing is owned by anyone in the highest spiritual realms. This is even mentioned at the end of the biography on Pajl Foster Case in one of the alleged communications they were told some thing similar, which while shocking, and only applicable to those at an extremely high level of spiritual evolution, does make some sense to me.

Paul Foster Case was definitely worried about the use of Enochian. But at his time period, John Dee’s five book of mysteries was not translated and available in the forms it is today. They generally got their info from “A True and faithful relation” which was barely true and faithful, incomplete, and it even seems to be a hit piece.

Today we have much more available to learn about the true origins of Enochian and John Dee. Peterson did an excellent job at translating and adding commentary, I’m in the middle of reading the 5th edition and I’ve realized how lucky I am to have access to as much info as we all do in this time period.

For what it’s worth, I’m not so sure the PELE ring and other paraphernalia are as needed as people think. I believe these were so stressed to John Dee because he was the one bringing in an entirely new magickal system and it was extremely important that none of the direct messaging he got from the angels was distorted or given by an imposter. But after it was all revealed to him, I think it was meant to be used by many more people, and it seems that the language itself has magickal power just by the vibration of the words even if just a fraction of its true power.

I myself am not ready to do any advanced enochian workings. But I do think the small bits and pieces of enochian language and vocalizations are safe that damon brand uses in some books. And as for scrying aethyrs and other more advanced techniques, I’m sure it can be used safely if someone is fully prepared and I’m sure that the system itself is more coherent and tested now with more years of use as well as more complete source material.