Is it true that occultists are supposed to know even the inconvenient secrets of the world?

[PolishTruthSeeker]

As above.
As for myself, I'm interested in everything that mainstream hides from people, so I risk being lumped with conspiracy theorists, but I don't care, as I would read from every political sources, whether left or right.
Am I a bad person for being interested in this?
I would be interested in magic, alchemy or how to interpret fantasy books, if given opportunities.

Post automatically merged: Thursday at 8:21 PM

Still waiting...

 

[glaive]

Wdym by inconvenient secrets? Could you give some examples?

I don't think someone's morals can be defined by their interests...so no, I wouldn't consider you a "bad person" purely for being interested. I guess it depends more on your relationship to the knowledge you acquire and what you do with it. I don't think people who read about serial killers, for example, are going to go out and murder people, or even agree with what the subject of their research did.

 

[PolishTruthSeeker]

Wdym by inconvenient secrets? Could you give some examples?

I don't think someone's morals can be defined by their interests...so no, I wouldn't consider you a "bad person" purely for being interested. I guess it depends more on your relationship to the knowledge you acquire and what you do with it. I don't think people who read about serial killers, for example, are going to go out and murder people, or even agree with what the subject of their research did.

What about people reading Mein Kampf for knowledge or occult purposes? LOL
Half-joking, half-truthing. But socially unacceptable things have hidden meaning.

Post automatically merged: Thursday at 10:12 PM

So, the example of inconvenient secrets are e.g. sinister things elites do, most probably or hidden symbols that have spiritual meaning.

 

[Wintruz]

Basically, yes. Most occultists will look into political and social ideas that are outside of the mainstream alongside their more traditionally "occult" interests.

It's important to understand that this happens at different levels though, that there are different levels of insight.

At the lower end, some might see the ideas in Mein Kampf as part of the implementation of David Icke's lizard people conspiracy. Others might see the words of excellent manipulator (itself a kind of magic). Still others will see Hitler in terms of an older magical current which reawoke in public awareness under a particular set of circumstances (Hitler may or may not have been aware that he was an expression of this current).

 

[AbammonTheGreat]

So the type of mind that dives into these subjects is very similar. Lots of conspiracy theorists get into esotericism and lots of magicians hold conspiratorial beliefs. Both these people are seeking truth and seeking knowledge. There is nothing wrong with seeking the truth that is who we are as occultists, that is our path.

However the development and progress of the soul and spirit should be inspiring the adept to detach from the profane and mundane affairs of the world. The experiences of the occultist and the proper mastery over the self should render them fearless. Adept magicians and occultists are notorious for their aloofness, there is a fearlessness and carelessness one develops towards mundanity as their occult and spiritual experience grows.

You may find on your journey a day where you do not care who runs the world, what psyop the government is conducting, who started what war, and what black programs are hurting which people because ultimately it is pointless. It means nothing, it is nothing, and unless it is a part of your path it is not for you. There are more important issues at hand, such as your actualization, your evolution, and your immortality. And you can not help anyone or anything until you help yourself. So these conspiratorial, political, and social issues tend to escape ones capacity to care, it begins to look like ants swarming a half eaten apple in the park. Maybe something you observe but ultimately unimportant as you continue on your way.

 

[Robert Ramsay]

There's a whole occult industry built around "I know secrets". As I see it, knowing, or even imagining you know, super secrets of the Universe, is one of the ways you boost your confidence in your own belief system, and thus, the effectiveness of your magic.

 

[HoldAll]

Depends on what you mean by 'mainstream' as well as 'inconvient' - for whom?

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do exist and continue to be used but you'll have to be clairvoyant to know any secrets governments are hiding from the public, scandal-hungry media, and whistleblowers from among their own midst. Either those clairvoyants actually don't have a clue, or they're unable to find a platform for their correct predictions. My impression is they're wrong every time - whenever something of truly global import happens, it mostly comes out of left field and as a total surprise to those 'seers' dabbling in prophesy; previously inconspicuous individuals are suddenly discovered to be monsters whom not even the most paranoid conspiracy theorists suspected of any wrongdoing before, wars break out in the unlikeliest of places, seemingly robust companies go spectacularly bust, all without savvy clairvoyants raising any alarm beforehand.

In my opinion, the public in general and occultist in particular have an voyeuristic appetite for anything allegedly 'secret' and 'hidden'. In addition, conspiracy theorists like their inconvenient secrets juicy - actual conspiracies like the

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are too boring for them (who gives a shit about lightbulbs anyway?), shady real-estate deals not sexy enough, bribery too mundane. There always have to be centuries-old secret societies or at least Satanism involved, government cover-ups (unfailingly effective, in the way that all governments are), blood-curdling tales of human sacrifice or whatnot, hidden manuscripts, secret symbols on medieval churches, the whole Dan Brown shtick. Add the usual suspects (e.g. Freemasons), some super-secret technology that apparently explains absolutely anything, and you're ready to join the other barkers up the wrong tree while in real life illicit arms deals continue to go down, or laws with generous exceptions for Big Business are being enacted.

I think that conspiracy theorists aren't interested in making the world a better place by unveiling 'secrets', they're solely in it for their own titillation. If something was genuinely secret, you and me wouldn't even know that it existed (and those clairvoyants wouldn't even know in which direction to look). It's always global big picture, with one single (occult) organisation behind it that never suffers from infighting or power struggles, never commits blunders, implements its nefarious agenda without a single hitch and is always in perfect control of the governments of all 193 UN member countries; it's never just special interests of a few companies or dictators. Lobbyism? Too dull. Industrial espionage? Ditto. Maybe conspiracies are the biggest psyop of all, a new opium for the masses.

 

[PolishTruthSeeker]

So the type of mind that dives into these subjects is very similar. Lots of conspiracy theorists get into esotericism and lots of magicians hold conspiratorial beliefs. Both these people are seeking truth and seeking knowledge. There is nothing wrong with seeking the truth that is who we are as occultists, that is our path.

However the development and progress of the soul and spirit should be inspiring the adept to detach from the profane and mundane affairs of the world. The experiences of the occultist and the proper mastery over the self should render them fearless. Adept magicians and occultists are notorious for their aloofness, there is a fearlessness and carelessness one develops towards mundanity as their occult and spiritual experience grows.

You may find on your journey a day where you do not care who runs the world, what psyop the government is conducting, who started what war, and what black programs are hurting which people because ultimately it is pointless. It means nothing, it is nothing, and unless it is a part of your path it is not for you. There are more important issues at hand, such as your actualization, your evolution, and your immortality. And you can not help anyone or anything until you help yourself. So these conspiratorial, political, and social issues tend to escape ones capacity to care, it begins to look like ants swarming a half eaten apple in the park. Maybe something you observe but ultimately unimportant as you continue on your way.

Nice explanation.

 

[Asteriskos]

In addition, conspiracy theorists like their inconvenient secrets juicy - actual conspiracies like the

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are too boring for them (who gives a shit about lightbulbs anyway?)

Thanks for this link, an industrial insight!

 

[Beyond Everything]

The experiences of the occultist and the proper mastery over the self should render them fearless.

It's quite misguided to assume any interest in 'mundane' affairs is a sign of fear

If one has only gone a partial way to immortality (the full transmutation into a higher subtle body), then guess what? Your most likely destination will be this planet again to attempt to complete the real magnum opus. In other words, if the Earth becomes more of a hellscape, your efforts may be directed towards subsistence survival rather than development.

Post automatically merged: Friday at 8:29 PM

.

I think that conspiracy theorists aren't interested in making the world a better place by unveiling 'secrets', they're solely in it for their own titillation. If something was genuinely secret, you and me wouldn't even know that it existed (and those clairvoyants wouldn't even know in which direction to look). It's always global big picture, with one single (occult) organisation behind it that never suffers from infighting or power struggles, never commits blunders, implements its nefarious agenda without a single hitch and is always in perfect control of the governments of all 193 UN member countries; it's never just special interests of a few companies or dictators. Lobbyism? Too dull. Industrial espionage? Ditto. Maybe conspiracies are the biggest psyop of all, a new opium for the masses.

Look, there are some very 'bad' things out there (I've encountered them in the flesh) and they are doubtless exercising influence upon the human species and its governance. However, governments are almost as hapless and clueless as the general mass when it comes to this stuff. This is easily ascertained as one doesn't see any leadership personally exhibiting something like great rejuvenation and longevity, and decisions are clearly not very inspired but are constant jerry-rigging.

 

[barbhack80]

Free-thinking and breaking away from imposed religious doctrines is to be cherished. How many people have had their lives crushed and have even died to serve the established global-religions? going outside of that is a voyage of discovery and being an independent-spirit is enriching.

 

[Swampdweller900]

It's not true in an absolute sense. Studying the occult doesn't automatically confer knowledge on anyone, per se.

In general, it's that you sort of dip out of a constant rat race, keeping up with the flow of your local mainstream society. With an outside perspective, you have the opportunity to view things from a different perspective. With the occult or esoteric topics, that also means changing your worldview in ways that most materialists simply cannot fathom or accept.

Often it takes personal experience to shock someone's worldview into changing, then work to process the fact that you're now forever outside the realm of "normal" because of experiences you've had. There are tons of books and movies and stories where we celebrate this - Ebeneezer Scrooge's change of heart is a prime example. Sometimes people go volunteer in a developing country for a few days, or at a homeless shelter where they live, and simply seeing something outside their cozy little bubble is enough to change them.

For some people who are shocked out of their old worldview through occult or paranormal means, they hide those experiences for their whole lives out of fear. For others, it's so enlightening that they embrace it to see where it goes. As they say, your mileage may vary.

 

[Fr. Maximagus]

If one has only gone a partial way to immortality (the full transmutation into a higher subtle body), then guess what? Your most likely destination will be this planet again to attempt to complete the real magnum opus. In other words, if the Earth becomes more of a hellscape, your efforts may be directed towards subsistence survival rather than development.

Admittedly this is a solid argument for why we should care and fight for change in the mundane world. I think it requires impeccable balance and judgement tho to not get sucked too far in or get thrown out of whack or worse

 

[Beyond Everything]

I think it requires impeccable balance and judgement tho to not get sucked too far in or get thrown out of whack or worse

It just means being aware of the difference between one's evaluation of evidence and the emotional tides of mass thought. There's no perfection possible in this arena (and that word is senseless in that regard anyway) so one doesn't need 'impecabbility'. That word comes from Castenada, who badly misled people anyway.

It's easy to say 'focus solely on your quest for immortality' so breezily, but I hate to be the bearer of bad news, your odds of fulling achieving full immortality are extraordinarily slim in this lifetime. So ,' you' may have fashioned something that carries over after death, but 'you'll' be facing all the dire consequences of Earth's current trendlines when 'you' pop up here again.

 

[Sabbatius]

To the OP, welcome to the club. Virtually most here hold to some obscure, outfield interest in ideas. A lot of it is just thinking or being outside of the box, however... we are striving for betterment through multiple means and methods.

If one was to look at our library collections, both in our electronic and physical folders, they would find almost everything outlawed or frowned upon by virtually every culture, group, social and political. Mein Kampf is just scratching the surface of the conspiracy rabbit hole.

 

[beardedeldridge]

Did you post your question then post a “still waiting…” 39 minutes later?????

 

[Fr. Maximagus]

It just means being aware of the difference between one's evaluation of evidence and the emotional tides of mass thought. There's no perfection possible in this arena (and that word is senseless in that regard anyway) so one doesn't need 'impecabbility'. That word comes from Castenada, who badly misled people anyway.

It's easy to say 'focus solely on your quest for immortality' so breezily, but I hate to be the bearer of bad news, your odds of fulling achieving full immortality are extraordinarily slim in this lifetime. So ,' you' may have fashioned something that carries over after death, but 'you'll' be facing all the dire consequences of Earth's current trendlines when 'you' pop up here again.

Yeah thats not what i was getting at though. My point was in The long run its good for all of us to care about the mundane world at least on some level. That doesnt exactly look like focusing solely on immortality it looks like a balance between the two worlds. Which is why i mentioned “impeccable” balance because it can be very difficult in practice to walk that line. i didnt mean “be perfect“.

im also curious about your beef with castenada now. Havent read him but have his book Don Juan.

 

[MorganBlack]

Wait, you guys get secret knowledge. Dammit!

Half joking aside, I agree we have to step aside from the mundane consensus, but as a technique, and one useful persoanl stance out of many. New Thought is basically mind-fucking yourself in the face of all evidence to the contrary the thing you desire is a reality. See Anton LaVey 'Satanism' as a New Thought 'Total Environment'.

OK, the rest is may or may not apply to you. I hate hard and fast rules.

I was always a Spooky Kid. Didn't realize that until later in life. Anglo-Latino, 6' 2". I look a bit like Dracula and the syncratized saint representation of Baron Samedi. I love anytime I can just hang with be accepted as regular folks. Or just be ignored. Pure bliss.

But I also think it's important for us all to come back down from the mountain and put ideas in action, bring heaven to earth. Become a Man of Earth again, go outside, play with our kids, (pets, whatever) and generally be a mundane person and reconnect with humanity. It's healthy to turn all this off and process.

So I am not a fan of the modern systems that build a permanent magician's or pagan personality construct. Magic is best approached as just one activity out of all of them we humans can do. Not a personality replacement nor religion. So I take a dim view of totalizing neo-pagan-ish alternative lifestyle systems, even if they can work on a short term basis.

 

[Fr. Maximagus]

New Thought is basically mind-fucking yourself in the face of all evidence to the contrary the thing you desire is a reality. See Anton LaVey 'Satanism' as a New Thought 'Total Environment'.

This would be like neville goddard, correct? (New thought)
i mean isnt that also in a way kind of what we are doing with magick, albeit at a much deeper, more elaborate, and ritualistic-symbolic-subconscious level??

 

[MorganBlack]

New Thought (NT) is fucking rad, dude. It was Chaos Magic long before Chaos Magic. And I increasingly suspect NT is the ur-daddy and little secret of so much of the modern stuff. No real slam . It's pretty great.

Neville is the coolest and best, imho. If only because he keepd it super simple, without alot of uneceassy additions (in that system) like "energy" and "vibes".

I have some old Rosicrucian books from the 1920's that talk about NT was massively popular back then, and had been for some time. Memories being so short, I think what maybe happened is American mind metaphysics jumped the Atlantic, hybridized with British pastoral Victorian age "pagan" community theater, and birthed a whole bunch of new things like Wicca, that then came back over here repackaged.

We were sold our own stuff back to us as the Pure Faith. Basically they just added a bunch of European fairy tales to spice up European imaginations. All fine, if that stuff floats your boat. . Crowley, Gardner, LaVey, what they were... were artists.

Israel Regardie was writing all about Goddard as early as his 1946 book (below) . I think it was just the commonly accepted practice of the time, that we forgot because of the interruption of WW II.

Book – PDF - Israel Regardie - The Romance Of Metaphysics: An Introduction To The History, Theory And Psychology Of Modern Metaphysics (1946)

copypasta: ""The Romance of Metaphysics"" is a comprehensive introduction to the history, theory, and psychology of modern metaphysics, written by Israel Regardie and first published in 1946. The book explores the philosophical and spiritual concepts that underpin metaphysics, including the...

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