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Opinion on Saiva Tantra?

BrooklynShaman

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Been reading about the Saiva school of Tantra and just wondered what others think of it. I have personally found it to be beneficial in my day to day life and has inspired great vitality in my Being. Afaik this forum is geared mostly towards Western Occultism but I think many here are also well read on the Eastern tradiitions.
 

thepolestar

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My background is mostly the Judeo-Christian mystical tradition plus my own thing, but I have seen a few YouTube videos on Kashmir Shaivism, seems it's got a fascinating history. Don't know much about it but it seems legit.
 

ashlesha

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Saiva tantra and its literature is considered some of the highest (publicly) available philosophical discourses on hindu tantra. For getting into it practically, most begin to run into problems. In the west, the lineages of Dadaji Mahendranath seems to be the most accessible through the remaining initiators of AMOOKOS, the INO, and John Powers/Gregory Peters on the Shakta/Uttara-Kaula sides. They are all VERY philosophically light, and lean far more on practice. There are other resources available for getting into Sri Vidya, a descendant of Saiva tantra, but oriented towards the goddess/shakta cults, Dzogchen & Tibetan Buddhist tantra which evolved around the same time and leads to very similar points as Saiva tantra, and a couple smaller cults here and there. Buddhist tantra and Sri Vidya are far more regimented and generally more reading heavy.

I am an initiate and am open to talk if you have more questions :)
 

Ananda

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Chanting mantras with bija syllables for lengthy periods of time (this is the main tantric practice), without the guidance of a genuine Guru, will cause mental illness, at the very least.
 

ashlesha

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Chanting mantras with bija syllables for lengthy periods of time (this is the main tantric practice), without the guidance of a genuine Guru, will cause mental illness, at the very least.
What you said about mantras without guidance is very commonly said in traditional circles, but truthfully I don't think it's the case! Isolated shaktas whom have no access to gurus have used various forms of divination for years to decide which of the mahavidyas are appropriate for them based on whatever scripture they were able to get their hands on. Even traditional Saiva from Kashmir will give instructions to self initiate with quite long mantras, the intention being some sort of intentional psychic upheaval for the sake of rebirth, as is common from what I've seen in vamamarg initiations.

Can mental illness arise from spirit engagement, certainly! Is this a property inherent to Hindu tantra? I don't think so... for now?
 

Ananda

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What you said about mantras without guidance is very commonly said in traditional circles, but truthfully I don't think it's the case!
I speak from my own experience. People may do as they please.

Can mental illness arise from spirit engagement, certainly! Is this a property inherent to Hindu tantra? I don't think so... for now?
It has more to do with the disharmonious rise of kundalini shakti than spirit engagement. One person I knew developed symptoms of mental illness by merely practicing yoga.
 

ashlesha

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It has more to do with the disharmonious rise of kundalini shakti than spirit engagement. One person I knew developed symptoms of mental illness by merely practicing yoga.

That's a good point, I have seen several aspirants get entangled in a lot of trouble because of a poorly constructed sadhana. But, on the flip side, I have seen people go on into fabulous practices with beautiful bhakti and tapas as a result of walking their path alone. Most gurus and pandits would rationalize this as shaktipat, grace, descending from the divine on a chosen few, but I am skeptical of this claim. I feel like it has to be more complicated and subtle than the overarching warning of no guru = no tantra!

From your own experiences within your own lineages, what are the common traits of a sincere aspirant going on to a successful practice? The commonality I've seen in my own is persistence, where even if people don't seem to gain very much in terms of accomplishment, they still practice onwards.
 

Thee Nightfool

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I have mantra diksha in Kaula tantra, a legitimate "got initiated at the cremation grounds and saw spirits of the dead hanging out there" guru, all that... so I can maybe give some sort of perspective on this subject despite the fact that it's not strictly Shaiva tantra per se (even though most of these tantric streams merge into each other often).

I started on this path a long time ago because I was looking for the "real" Left Hand Path (as opposed to needlessly spooky-ooky Western "Satanic"-fueled nonsense... which isn't tied to anything real as far as lineage or even seriousness of practice is concerned).

I'm currently at a crossroads with practice, however, as it is so vastly different from Occidental society that it almost makes it impossible to live and be this way while living here (an authenticity thing for me). But that's a far more complicated matter. Additionally, some of the heavier tamasic emanations of the devas can exacerbate pre-existing issues of mine (long-standing depression being one of them) and that can make practice a challenge.
 

ashlesha

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I have mantra diksha in Kaula tantra, a legitimate "got initiated at the cremation grounds and saw spirits of the dead hanging out there" guru, all that... so I can maybe give some sort of perspective on this subject despite the fact that it's not strictly Shaiva tantra per se (even though most of these tantric streams merge into each other often).

I started on this path a long time ago because I was looking for the "real" Left Hand Path (as opposed to needlessly spooky-ooky Western "Satanic"-fueled nonsense... which isn't tied to anything real as far as lineage or even seriousness of practice is concerned).

I'm currently at a crossroads with practice, however, as it is so vastly different from Occidental society that it almost makes it impossible to live and be this way while living here (an authenticity thing for me). But that's a far more complicated matter. Additionally, some of the heavier tamasic emanations of the devas can exacerbate pre-existing issues of mine (long-standing depression being one of them) and that can make practice a challenge.
Absolutely, I think my diksha into other vamamarg paths incited the same. My guru, though, has me focusing more on sattvic emanations for now, with periodic larger rituals to tamasic emanations for their capacity to purify tamas and witness its divinity. Just for now until my householder path is completed! Do you currently maintain your practice with mantra sadhana?
 

Thee Nightfool

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Absolutely, I think my diksha into other vamamarg paths incited the same. My guru, though, has me focusing more on sattvic emanations for now, with periodic larger rituals to tamasic emanations for their capacity to purify tamas and witness its divinity. Just for now until my householder path is completed! Do you currently maintain your practice with mantra sadhana?
I currently do not, unfortunately. Sattvic in the sense of, say, Saraswati (just a random example)?

Also, props for your forum name referencing the serpentine nakshatra, hahaha
 

ashlesha

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I currently do not, unfortunately. Sattvic in the sense of, say, Saraswati (just a random example)?

Also, props for your forum name referencing the serpentine nakshatra, hahaha
I never thought anyone would notice my name, but thank you for catching it! :D

Sattvic in the sense that the krama, sequence, of deities evoked throughout the sadhana have a purifying orientation. We might start with a tamasic deity known for purifying all perception, like tantrik forms of Ganesha or Shiva, and then move into mantras dedicated for forms of Devi that bring good things into our life. This way we can aspire towards jivanmukti, liberation while living, by attaining moksha, liberation, and bogha, worldly pleasures.
 

Thee Nightfool

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I never thought anyone would notice my name, but thank you for catching it! :D

Sattvic in the sense that the krama, sequence, of deities evoked throughout the sadhana have a purifying orientation. We might start with a tamasic deity known for purifying all perception, like tantrik forms of Ganesha or Shiva, and then move into mantras dedicated for forms of Devi that bring good things into our life. This way we can aspire towards jivanmukti, liberation while living, by attaining moksha, liberation, and bogha, worldly pleasures.
Unfortunately, this is not how my guru "drives the conversation," so to speak. But what you speak of sounds prudent. I've considered lately just doing a hardcore panchakshara mantra cycle focused on all of my chakra systems (sort of like a tantric Hindu equivalent of what Vajrasattva does for Tibetan Buddhists). Going to discuss that with him soon.

At the very least, the Shiva-panchakshara mantra (Om Namah Shivaya for those that don't know... this mantra requires no diksha/initiation from a guru to work, but it can empower the mantra even further if you do) is something of an "elemental" invocational mantra, and I would think could function in a similar way to a Greater Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram, a-la tantrik Hindu style.

Just throwing shit out there for the sake of conversation, of course. I am certainly no expert on these matters...
 
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