[Opinion] The Foundational Principles of Franz Bardon's System

Beyond Everything said:

lol I talked about things regarding Bardon that are not in his wikipedia.

Bardon gave some meditation and concentration exercises and such. Big whoop. Any sort of such exercises will bring some results. My point however is- NO ONE working with his stuff -including himself- has been able to enact the feats he claimed were possible in his 2nd and 3rd books.

Bardon's weltanschauung is also highly detrimental to the aspirant. Imbibing a primitive belief in an imaginary 'divine providence' that blocks one's workings and progress unless one is 'divinely aligned' and a good little boy is a great way to avoid achieving the higher levels of self-empowerment.

There is no god or divine providence. These are egregoric/ideological delusions.


I mean you can rationalize away his sickliness all you want. But Bardon explicitly stated the letters can bring perfect health. Which he did not possess. I'm sorry if talking about reality bothers some of you, but that is not my problem.

He didn't 'simply escape' his life circumstance. He had to commit suicide. It seems like you have nothing but what-ifs, whereas Im referencing cold hard facts.

As I said, this is tedious so I was already done discussing it, but I'd suggest reading those two sentences I bolded over and over and meditate on it.

Click to expand...

I mean you can just not follow Bardons work. Who cares if one view is right right or not? Its not right for you, and that is legit. But others like it and it seems to work for some people. That should be enough.

I havent read the books, I dont follow that stuff, but I am more than okay with BBBBs curiosity and Aviafs experience with it. I can hold both and be okay with myself. It doesnt threaten me or my path that others dont hold the same beliefs I have.

Why does it seen it threaten you? By the appearance in this thread, thats what it looks like. Not accusing, just asking, why is it so important to you to debunk it?

BBBB said:

For someone who hates other's beliefs so much,

Click to expand...

This is all in your own head.

I made a clear statement regarding Bardon's propagation of the belief in divine providence and it's associated impact on limiting the aspirant. That itself is enough if you spend time contemplating it to put a huge question mark on his work.

Aviaf said he blocked me, and in any event I already demonstrated Bardons claims in his works vs Bardons real-life results are two distinct matters. People are free to go the occult hero route and follow these various gurus dutifully. I'm hardly stopping anyone by making a few posts in an obscure forum. lol

Beyond Everything said:

This is all in your own head.

Click to expand...

...you just have no idea how big my head is!

You could use aviaf's post to present your take on Bardon better. But I aggree, your interest is not in it, it's in something else.

You keep saying we are fans, believers and we refuse to acknowledge the truth. You aviod discussing the system itself even after being presented with an opportunity. You also have 0 experience with it (and with anything occult too, since you simply wouldn't be able to with such an attitude). Divine providence seems like a button, and from your initial posting on WF you looked to me like a fan of Atheism among the innocent occult sheep. As superior as that pseudo islamic preacher. Why? Simply because you think you're the only one in search for the true knowlede and others are just fooling around. It's just toxicity all the time, I think I'll ignore you too and give you a comfortable out, so you don't have to do the work)

If one would be sincere about debunking a system, they should look at it's structure and key points. Beliefs are not key to an occult system, which is not "chaos" magic (where belief is everything), in my framework beliefs are just another factor at best. If you know a system well, it's possible to point out it's weaknesses and maybe correct it. Specifically on Providence, it can be limiting, liberating or even creative, that depends on how Providence is understood and worked into a system.

Beyond Everything said:

This is all in your own head.

I made a clear statement regarding Bardon's propagation of the belief in divine providence and it's associated impact on limiting the aspirant. That itself is enough if you spend time contemplating it to put a huge question mark on his work.

Aviaf said he blocked me, and in any event I already demonstrated Bardons claims in his works vs Bardons real-life results are two distinct matters. People are free to go the occult hero route and follow these various gurus dutifully. I'm hardly stopping anyone by making a few posts in an obscure forum. lol

Click to expand...

I never said I blocked you, simply that I was going to ignore you... If you have something of value to offer to the conversation, please do.

Angelkesfarl said:

"My dear friend, I am in a state of happiness beyond what you can imagine. I am not merely asking for an explanation, but for you to go deeper—to elaborate extensively on the psychological and developmental states, from the theoretical phase to full application, including practical examples, even if they are from your own private journal. This is how I find true Science, and this is how confident scientists operate. Thank you; you have truly made my day, and I look forward to building even deeper bonds of true friendship between us.

You have truly done the man (Bardon) justice; he understood, and he was tested and suffered greatly so that we may learn and see for ourselves. He sincerely wanted the truth of things to reach us. I find him to be one of the most engaging and authentic authors, and his works nearly reach the level of modern Enochian operations.

So, from your perspective as a true practitioner, is my belief correct?

Click to expand...

I appreciate the enthusiasm here. I appreciate the clarity of his system, as you can probably tell from my posts...I’m not sure what you mean by ‘modern Enochian operations.’ Bardon’s system isn’t related to Enochian in method or cosmology. IIH is a skills‑based training system, not a spirit‑contact system.
But before we go any deeper into “psychological and developmental states,” I need to ask something simple and practical:

What’s your experience with the work itself?
There are several primer texts for IIH, and the difference between reading Bardon and training Bardon is enormous. The developmental stages look very different from the inside than they do from the outside, and the mechanics only make sense when you’ve actually run the drills.

If you’ve worked the early steps, mental discipline, elemental equilibrium, controlled imagination then we can talk about how those capacities unfold in practice. If not, we’re just discussing theory, and Bardon is a system that only reveals itself through application. As highly as you speak of him, I would assume you have some practical experience?

aviaf said:

I appreciate the enthusiasm here. I appreciate the clarity of his system, as you can probably tell from my posts...I’m not sure what you mean by ‘modern Enochian operations.’ Bardon’s system isn’t related to Enochian in method or cosmology. IIH is a skills‑based training system, not a spirit‑contact system.
But before we go any deeper into “psychological and developmental states,” I need to ask something simple and practical:

What’s your experience with the work itself?
There are several primer texts for IIH, and the difference between reading Bardon and training Bardon is enormous. The developmental stages look very different from the inside than they do from the outside, and the mechanics only make sense when you’ve actually run the drills.

If you’ve worked the early steps, mental discipline, elemental equilibrium, controlled imagination then we can talk about how those capacities unfold in practice. If not, we’re just discussing theory, and Bardon is a system that only reveals itself through application. As highly as you speak of him, I would assume you have some practical experience?

Click to expand...

Bardon is indeed very important to me because he represents the essence. I feel that he studied Eastern sciences, for breathing in our tradition begins with balancing the right nostril as the gateway for Solar energy, and alternating breath from the left nostril as the gateway for the Moon. In our system, these two are the safety factors and the sources for drawing masculine and feminine energies. Following this is his dietary system for balancing the Four Humors: blood, phlegm, yellow bile, and black bile. These are the physical manifestations of the four natures in our spiritual science: Fire, Earth, Air, and Water. Even if we manipulate them at advanced levels, we differ in the concept of emanation; for us, the source is not the Akasha, but the Divine Grace (Madad).

As for the Black Soul Mirror, to us, it is the 'Eye of Inner Insight' or the Seven Souls (Anfus) according to Al-Ghazali, as seen in the presence of 'Manifestation' (Tajalli) and 'Renunciation' (Takhalli). Regarding the strengthening and refinement of the five outer senses—touch, taste, sight, and spiritual hearing—this is achieved in our tradition through the mastery of the Ether, which we consider the 'External Emanator' from which we draw any raw energy and transform it within the Alchemy of Thought to any level.

The foundations have always been clear to me; I adopted what is similar, and even identical, to Bardon’s system early in my beginnings with the Sufi Hadras during my training and learning at the hands of my Great Master, may God have mercy on him. This reached the point of communicating with the worlds of Malakut (the Celestial) unto Jabarut (the Kingdom of Power) and the 'Presence of Annihilation' (Fana’), which parallels Jewish Sufi thought regarding the Tree of Life—and though we may differ, let us remain within the points of agreement, for the forum cannot bear differences or conflicts now; the current fronts are enough.

This is why, when I looked at my words and specifically your distinction between Enochian and Bardon’s 'Psycho-Etheric' systems, I was intrigued and became very enthusiastic about the idea. In our tradition, as Brother Bardon says regarding 'Out-of-Body' experiences, it is closer to the Indian system he presents; but for us, we call it 'The Essential Light' (Al-Nur al-Dhati), which is the highest level of mastery. I linked it to Enochian in terms of the clarity of practice and the geometric nature of the texts. If Enochian is concerned with communicating with entities of clear origin and a system that is both separate from and connected to spirituality and magick, then it is an application of spiritual communication. Despite its intensity, it remains in the end a 'Celestial Map' that describes with precision the astronomical movements, as noted by the North Africans like Ibn Azzuz, and I am one of the students of his Sufi school, or as spoken of by the Ancient Egyptians regarding the relationships between the Astronomical Decans.

I know my response may seem slightly scattered to those who do not master what is 'between the lines,' but the mastery, transfer, charging, and control are all drawn, in our view, from the Ether = Akasha. It is around and within; it is the Spiritual Field, the 'Fifth Point' in all schools, and we have an unforgettable memory of the 'Simani Pentagram' (Mukhammas al-Simani). The practices between my system and Bardon’s may appear different on the surface, but if we shake off the linguistic differences, both look toward a single essence, even if the paths of those circling its pure spring differ.

What is referred to as the 'Three Steps' in his system to reach the Magickal Will, we call 'reaching the ranks of The Men' (Maqam al-Rijal)—which means acting with the 'Speed of Thought' (Khater) without the need for any external factors like incense or rituals; it is only You and your Purpose. May God have mercy on my Master, who used to forbid me from haste in my beginnings and commanded me toward 'Gradual Progression' (Tadarruj), saying to me: 'Do not be a candle; be a sun that never sets.

I can't even begin to find something to respond to. Please, quit giving your AI crack.

aviaf said:

I can't even begin to find something to respond to. Please, quit giving your AI crack.

Click to expand...

"I do not understand how you find nothing to respond to? I am speaking to you about my Eastern school and its similarities to Bardon’s own spiritual school; how could you not understand, and what is the role of Artificial Intelligence in this? Would you like me to explain more about my school, or if you wish, do you have questions about phrases that might seem ambiguous to you?"

Angelkesfarl said:

"I do not understand how you find nothing to respond to? I am speaking to you about my Eastern school and its similarities to Bardon’s own spiritual school; how could you not understand, and what is the role of Artificial Intelligence in this? Would you like me to explain more about my school, or if you wish, do you have questions about phrases that might seem ambiguous to you?"

Click to expand...

Because he didn't ask you a theoretic response about your tradition, which has nothing to do with the Bardon system. You are going off topic by then. Basically @aviaf asked you if you know the Bardon system from the inside out and performed/trained the drills. You simply didn't answer the question.

So the question: did you performed/trained the drills yes or no of the BARDON system and what was your EXPERIENCE. (not theory)

And don't talk about your own tradition in that answer which is not relevant for this question and topic. If you want to explain your own school, please make a separate topic of it and do it without pushing against and/or the ridiculisation of other traditions. There you will have plenty enough room and absolute freedom to talk about it. People have by then the choice to engage with the topic or not, which is up to them. Now you are pushing it in other topics, which derails.

I am toying with a second Bardon topic with strict does and don'ts to have a functional and quality discussion about it. But I have to think about a good openings post for that, so we can go without derailing and other big emotions.

Angelkesfarl said:

"I do not understand how you find nothing to respond to? I am speaking to you about my Eastern school and its similarities to Bardon’s own spiritual school; how could you not understand, and what is the role of Artificial Intelligence in this? Would you like me to explain more about my school, or if you wish, do you have questions about phrases that might seem ambiguous to you?"

Click to expand...

Looks like @AlfrunGrima already spelled out the issue pretty clearly. My question wasn’t about your tradition, your cosmology, or the metaphysics behind it. It was a simple, practical one: have you actually trained Bardon’s drills, yes or no, and what was your experience with them? You wrote an entire comparative‑mysticism dissertation in one post. That’s why I said I had nothing to respond to. Not because I didn’t understand you, but because you didn’t actually make a point that required a reply. It was a cascade of associations, not a question.

The “AI crack” line was just me joking about the density of your message.

If you want an actual discussion, narrow it down:
what specific functional overlap between your system and Bardon’s training steps are you trying to highlight?
Pick one instead of twenty and I’ll probably engage. No promises...

And just to be clear: my original question wasn’t about parallels between your path and Bardon’s. I asked what experience you personally have with IIH, or, if not IIH, with Hermetic practice in general. Actual work you’ve done, not conceptual comparisons.

aviaf said:

And just to be clear: my original question wasn’t about parallels between your path and Bardon’s. I asked what experience you personally have with IIH, or, if not IIH, with Hermetic practice in general. Actual work you’ve done, not conceptual comparisons.

Click to expand...

The Silent Translation
"I tell you that the Hermetic principles of the Four Humors and the Ether are interwoven in both West and East, as they were the universal medical and spiritual reference until modern laboratories replaced them. However, the Four Humors move in reality, and the Ether (Akasha) truly exists.

Before I ever studied Bardon’s system, I had already completed a parallel cognitive system in our tradition. To bridge our perspectives, I will share that during my training under my Master, I mastered 'Vacancy of Mind' (as Bardon calls it) not by merely sitting in a chair, but through Sufi Muraqaba (Deep Observation) within the Khalwa (Spiritual Seclusion).

As a clear example of functional overlap, let's take Pore Breathing and Element Accumulation. We do not settle for just drowning in imagination; we apply it with practical essences to move an element. For instance, moving the Fire element to stimulate the Yellow Bile (Safra’) to raise your body temperature, or even projecting the element through magnetic attraction and alchemical transformation—such as igniting a spark of emotion in another person. Do you understand me now?

So, let's simplify things for everyone and start from the first steps of the entire system. Step One of Bardon’s system, and Hermetic systems as you describe them, is as follows:

Observation of Thought: Sitting in silence to monitor the flow of thoughts without engagement (what we call Muraqaba).

Concentration of Thought: Choosing a single thought and holding it, barring all others.

The Zero State (Mental Seclusion): Where the 'External Whisper' (Khater) falls silent, and the 'Willful Intent' (Khater Irady) emerges.

The Soul Mirrors: Writing the 'Black Soul Mirror' (Vices/Corrupt Humors) and the 'White Soul Mirror' (Virtues/Balanced Humors).

Elemental Balancing: Categorizing these traits according to the four elements (Fire, Earth, Air, Water) to achieve 'Elemental Equilibrium.' Without this balance, any subsequent evocation will either burn the practitioner or drive them to madness.

Next comes Conscious Breathing, and I will leave the rest for you to complete.

Beyond Everything said:

This is all in your own head.

I made a clear statement regarding Bardon's propagation of the belief in divine providence and it's associated impact on limiting the aspirant. That itself is enough if you spend time contemplating it to put a huge question mark on his work.

Aviaf said he blocked me, and in any event I already demonstrated Bardons claims in his works vs Bardons real-life results are two distinct matters. People are free to go the occult hero route and follow these various gurus dutifully. I'm hardly stopping anyone by making a few posts in an obscure forum. lol

Click to expand...

I see you're the dumbest guy here. If you actually read the entire IIH book carefully, after finishing step 2 in that book, no one would be idle enough to brag to you like "I have power" or "I'm immortal" and all that shit. Do you even know the difference between an enlightened person and someone who just likes to show off? It's that they stay silent and don't boast about being enlightened or anything. They're not some monkey performing circus tricks to prove something to you, got it?

This applies to Taoism, Buddhism, and other religions too—because the ego has completely collapsed. But you think becoming a magician gives you power to do whatever the fuck you want? Who the hell do you think you are, believing you can just do anything you desire?

In short, I see you're no different from the very things you criticize: delusional, trying to act intellectual, not daring to experiment, not daring to practice, standing on the outside just criticizing, all while inflating your own ego. And you come off like an angry teenager—probably spends all day reading books but never actually trains or practices anything.

Anyway, don't quote me because I don't want to get involved in a debate with a moron like you.

whatever0935 said:

I see you're the dumbest guy here. If you actually read the entire IIH book carefully, after finishing step 2 in that book, no one would be idle enough to brag to you like "I have power" or "I'm immortal" and all that shit.

Click to expand...

Bardon stated explicitly that perfect health is obtained through mastery of certain letters. His health was quite bad. The only claims made are those by Bardon himself. He failed to embody those claims. It's about as cut and dry as you can get.

Anyone who thinks it's unreasonable (or worse, 'unfair') to point out the results claimed are not the results achieved has some major issues they need to work through on their own.

whatever0935 said:

Anyway, don't quote me because I don't want to get involved in a debate with a moron like you.

Click to expand...

What's to debate? Anyone can read what Bardon claimed in his writing versus the actual results he obtained. Bardon was sickly.

For myself, my personal practices have not only helped me achieve great health, but also palpable rejuvenation towards an appearance markedly younger than my biological age. Whereas Bardon (and his followers like Rawn Clark) were sickly and died young.

Angelkesfarl said:

The Silent Translation
"I tell you that the Hermetic principles of the Four Humors and the Ether are interwoven in both West and East, as they were the universal medical and spiritual reference until modern laboratories replaced them. However, the Four Humors move in reality, and the Ether (Akasha) truly exists.

Before I ever studied Bardon’s system, I had already completed a parallel cognitive system in our tradition. To bridge our perspectives, I will share that during my training under my Master, I mastered 'Vacancy of Mind' (as Bardon calls it) not by merely sitting in a chair, but through Sufi Muraqaba (Deep Observation) within the Khalwa (Spiritual Seclusion).

As a clear example of functional overlap, let's take Pore Breathing and Element Accumulation. We do not settle for just drowning in imagination; we apply it with practical essences to move an element. For instance, moving the Fire element to stimulate the Yellow Bile (Safra’) to raise your body temperature, or even projecting the element through magnetic attraction and alchemical transformation—such as igniting a spark of emotion in another person. Do you understand me now?

So, let's simplify things for everyone and start from the first steps of the entire system. Step One of Bardon’s system, and Hermetic systems as you describe them, is as follows:

Observation of Thought: Sitting in silence to monitor the flow of thoughts without engagement (what we call Muraqaba).

Concentration of Thought: Choosing a single thought and holding it, barring all others.

The Zero State (Mental Seclusion): Where the 'External Whisper' (Khater) falls silent, and the 'Willful Intent' (Khater Irady) emerges.

The Soul Mirrors: Writing the 'Black Soul Mirror' (Vices/Corrupt Humors) and the 'White Soul Mirror' (Virtues/Balanced Humors).

Elemental Balancing: Categorizing these traits according to the four elements (Fire, Earth, Air, Water) to achieve 'Elemental Equilibrium.' Without this balance, any subsequent evocation will either burn the practitioner or drive them to madness.

Next comes Conscious Breathing, and I will leave the rest for you to complete.

Click to expand...

I appreciate the tour through the metaphysics. Genuinely.
But I want to make sure I’m tracking you correctly, because right now it sounds a bit like:
‘I never actually cooked Bardon’s recipe, but I’ve made a very similar stew in another kitchen.’

Which is fine! I just want to know which kitchen we’re talking about.

So let me ask it in the simplest way possible:
Have you personally trained Bardon’s Step One exercises as Bardon wrote them (thought observation, thought discipline, vacancy of mind, soul mirror) or are you saying your prior training covered the same territory by another route? I think anyone following the thread already has their suspicions, but I'd like clarification.
Either answer is totally workable.
I just want to know whether we’re comparing notes from the same textbook or from parallel traditions that rhyme with each other.

aviaf said:

I appreciate the tour through the metaphysics. Genuinely.
But I want to make sure I’m tracking you correctly, because right now it sounds a bit like:
‘I never actually cooked Bardon’s recipe, but I’ve made a very similar stew in another kitchen.’

Which is fine! I just want to know which kitchen we’re talking about.

So let me ask it in the simplest way possible:
Have you personally trained Bardon’s Step One exercises as Bardon wrote them (thought observation, thought discipline, vacancy of mind, soul mirror) or are you saying your prior training covered the same territory by another route? I think anyone following the thread already has their suspicions, but I'd like clarification.
Either answer is totally workable.
I just want to know whether we’re comparing notes from the same textbook or from parallel traditions that rhyme with each other.

Click to expand...

when I studied Bardon’s practical philosophy, I recognized the 'stew' immediately. It is the same Hermetic broth, though my Eastern Esoteric school adds its own 'potent spices'—ancient secrets that the original school preserved and our tradition refined.

I don't just 'know' Bardon; I have lived his steps. I practiced thought observation, discipline, vacancy of mind, and the soul mirrors under the guidance of a Living Master—a privilege many modern practitioners lack. This guidance allowed me to transition from mere 'Visualisation' (Imagination) to the 'Power of Khater' (Direct Willful Impulse).

I hold deep respect for Bardon. Despite his historical suffering and physical fragility caused by the horrors he endured, he remained a master performer and a true adept—not a mere compiler of philosophy. He proved his system on stage and in life.

So yes, we are in the same kitchen. But while some are still learning to balance the heat, my tradition taught me how to control the fire itself.

Now, since we are comparing notes: How does the modern Western current following Bardon apply these steps today? In my view, many have turned his 'Magickal Dynamics' into 'Psychological Exercises.' Can you show me where the line is drawn today between 'Internal Alchemy' and 'Practical External Manifestation' in your training? I am curious to see the depth of the 'Action' in your current application.

Beyond Everything said:

Bardon stated explicitly that perfect health is obtained through mastery of certain letters. His health was quite bad. The only claims made are those by Bardon himself. He failed to embody those claims. It's about as cut and dry as you can get.

Anyone who thinks it's unreasonable (or worse, 'unfair') to point out the results claimed are not the results achieved has some major issues they need to work through on their own.


What's to debate? Anyone can read what Bardon claimed in his writing versus the actual results he obtained. Bardon was sickly.

For myself, my personal practices have not only helped me achieve great health, but also palpable rejuvenation towards an appearance markedly younger than my biological age. Whereas Bardon (and his followers like Rawn Clark) were sickly and died young.

Click to expand...

Just next to you in this topic is a grand-master, who practiced exactly what Bardon taught, and who had achieved everything. That beats your arguments, unless you can prove Angelkesfarl wrong. I may have issues with his attitude, but to dispute his training - I have no reason. I might wonder why it haven't resulted in personal improvement, but that never was the theme of your critique. I'm sure Angelkesfarl could attest for his improved health and wellbeing as the result of his Bardon-like practice. If you don't accept that, then I will just conclude that you are a troll, a liar and a virgin (i.e. never actually practiced nothing serious) and no amount of proof will be enough for you, and I will also link here in case of any future attacks on Bardon or on any other system, so even people who don't know you, could quickly see what you really are and would not waste time on agruing with you.

BBBB said:

Just next to you in this topic is a grand-master, who practiced exactly what Bardon taught, and who had achieved everything. That beats your arguments, unless you can prove Angelkesfarl wrong. I may have issues with his attitude, but to dispute his training - I have no reason. I might wonder why it haven't resulted in personal improvement, but that never was the theme of your critique. I'm sure Angelkesfarl could attest for his improved health and wellbeing as the result of his Bardon-like practice. If you don't accept that, then I will just conclude that you are a troll, a liar and a virgin (i.e. never actually practiced nothing serious) and no amount of proof will be enough for you, and I will also link here in case of any future attacks on Bardon or on any other system, so even people who don't know you, could quickly see what you really are and would not waste time on agruing with you.

Click to expand...

On that note, you point interesting thing I didn't think about before.
Bardon teaches how to self control. But not necessary how to self-improve. True there are the mirrors and elements of behavior exercises, becoming good in behaving, but I don't think that there is guidance to growing in wisdom or other aspects of self-imroving.

Angelkesfarl said:

when I studied Bardon’s practical philosophy, I recognized the 'stew' immediately. It is the same Hermetic broth, though my Eastern Esoteric school adds its own 'potent spices'—ancient secrets that the original school preserved and our tradition refined.

I don't just 'know' Bardon; I have lived his steps. I practiced thought observation, discipline, vacancy of mind, and the soul mirrors under the guidance of a Living Master—a privilege many modern practitioners lack. This guidance allowed me to transition from mere 'Visualisation' (Imagination) to the 'Power of Khater' (Direct Willful Impulse).

I hold deep respect for Bardon. Despite his historical suffering and physical fragility caused by the horrors he endured, he remained a master performer and a true adeptnot a mere compiler of philosophy. He proved his system on stage and in life.

So yes, we are in the same kitchen. But while some are still learning to balance the heat, my tradition taught me how to control the fire itself.

Now, since we are comparing notes: How does the modern Western current following Bardon apply these steps today? In my view, many have turned his 'Magickal Dynamics' into 'Psychological Exercises.' Can you show me where the line is drawn today between 'Internal Alchemy' and 'Practical External Manifestation' in your training? I am curious to see the depth of the 'Action' in your current application.

Click to expand...

I’m going to be direct here: you’ve written a lot of words, but you still haven’t answered the actual question.
I was not asking for metaphors, parallels, or conceptual summaries. I was asking for specifics.
That you don't care to share is quite alright man! It sounds like you’re enthusiastic about your path, and that’s good to see. I’m going to bow out here and get back to the work I’ve actually got on my plate. 'atta boy! Keep at it!

Beyond Everything said:

For myself, my personal practices have not only helped me achieve great health, but also palpable rejuvenation towards an appearance markedly younger than my biological age. Whereas Bardon (and his followers like Rawn Clark) were sickly and died young.

Click to expand...

BBBB said:

unless you can prove Angelkesfarl wrong. I may have issues with his attitude, but to dispute his training - I have no reason. I might wonder why it haven't resulted in personal improvement, but that never was the theme of your critique. I'm sure Angelkesfarl could attest for his improved health and wellbeing as the result of his Bardon-like practice.

Click to expand...

I see that BBBB has laid out the map with absolute clarity. In this debate, you are not merely facing opinions; you are facing two fundamental pillars of practice: aviaf, who embodies the mastery of Bardon’s path, and myself, representing the depth of the Parallel Tradition that predates and aligns with it.

My friend, do not look at the messenger’s body; look instead at his words, which ignite the light of Truth within you. Bardon, the man, clarified and explained. Perhaps we forget that had it not been for his psychological and spiritual exercises and his connections, he might have succumbed to far greater ailments much sooner. Would his knowledge—or, if you prefer, his intellectual philosophy—have ever reached you then? Did Bardon, in his few but immensely productive years, maintain the maximum possible health he could, simply to tell you that something was amiss?

You are confusing the spiritual with a materialistic view, focusing on the 'vessel' (Bardon’s health) while ignoring the 'Power' that flowed through it. Whether through Bardon’s specific steps or the Master-keys of the Eastern schools I follow, the result is the same: Absolute Mastery over the internal elements.

Here is the truth: It is the mental and psychological control over the Akasha. He is saying that there is a realm beyond ours—an intellectual, imaginative, intangible world where elements swim as pure ideas. You can project them into a 'vessel' as an expression. Do not forget, if you have indeed read him, that he speaks of what happens behind the scenes; yet he locked it with the padlocks of words and pointed his finger toward the ends. I repeat: when a writer points to the moon, do not look at his finger—and forgive me, you are looking at his body, not even his finger.

Free yourself from the worship of materialism and dare to look behind it if you wish to become powerful. Furthermore, I do not deny that your personal practice may have brought you, as you claim, a younger body, better health, or more wealth. But here, too, you are conflating what Bardon himself pointed toward with what you now state in all honesty. He pointed to the 'Meaning,' and you derived the energy and its manifestation through a new practice. Even if your practice were entirely your own invention, it would simply mean you have carved a new branch of the river—it does not mean that what flows in the branches of others is mere seawater, does it