[Opinion] What is the BIBLE to you?

A simple question, it should be interesting to see what people say. Without revealing too much, what is your interpretation of what the BIBLE is?

To me, the bible is a record of what happened in the past whereby the God who created the Universe (Yaldabaoth) was subdued by some Earthly magicians in some ritual. In this ritual, the God of creation is made into a man so that he can be killed. Jesus then, is the God of the Old Testament who was incarnated through ritual magic, for the sake of magical POWER.

I have other specific beliefs which I am happy to discuss, but I want to hear what people know!

I guess I'm a bit of a Torah snob, I only trust what I translate myself. Mostly I do this with Genesis.

Also, some books of the Bible I outright 'un-canon' in my readings. 'Revelation' and anything written by Paul.

( Am I a christian? Most would say no, because I'm Adoptionist, not Incarnationist. )

I do explore Islam, but for Jinn related knowledge only.

Gnostic books, I'm still evaluating. Might be good for Goddess info with Sophia.

I guess non of that really answers the OP question, but I hope you see that I treat each book differently, so I can't really.

I'll start with the OT and the 'Jewish Bible' ( which Christians adopted ) ;

It is a collection of myth fables and some oral history and folk stories with some 'other histories' and their famous people 'adopted' and given other names ( like Solomon being based on Egyptian, Assyrian or Phoenician Kings ) collated contemporary with Josiah ( who made the Temple 'Jewish ' and Monotheist (it was not previously ) in an attempt (successful until recently* ) to create an idea of a previous unified kingdom between Israel and Judah , so Josiah could move north and take Israel due to the post Neo-Assyrian 'withdrawal / power vacuum in that area .

* due to modern research about the adoption , development and evolution of Jahweh into Judah and the work of modern archaeologists like the prominent Israeli Dr Israel Finklestein ( to name one ) .

In that regard , to me, I have to consider it one of the most successful con jobs in history ! ( and the modern world still has ideas about God from this source ! )

The NT is a collection of ancient, 1st-century Greco-Roman literature authored by humans , influenced by both Second Temple Judaism ( see above ) and Greco-Roman literature, with anonymous authors (not the apostles ), creating Jesus as the main character to hold the story plot together and to present the authors ethical and philosophical arguments about justice, mercy and subversion ( due to Roman rule ).

Generally ( NT + OT ) Its a great story and probably became so popular due to it being 'on the story line ' that is most popular ( Cinderaella has the same story line structure )

Granted, the book of Genesis has stories far older, adopted and adapted. That does does not remove their meaning.

It does not work like say Exodus, with it's "... and God told Moses..."

When does the Bible transition to History? IDK. It's not that important to me to know.

I highly recommend:

Sedim Haba said:

Granted, the book of Genesis has stories far older, adopted and adapted. That does does not remove their meaning.

It does not work like say Exodus, with it's "... and God told Moses..."

When does the Bible transition to History? IDK. It's not that important to me to know.

I highly recommend:

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Well I can tell you from reading Kant that Religion and Science have traded place in since the time of Galileo (where Religion was Dogmatists and the accepted method for arriving at TRUTH, while Science were the skeptics who had to correct dogmatists where they could)

The bible can viewed as the BEST interpretation of what is happening in reality, and how and why we exist. The gnostic interpretation is interesting. I looked specifically into the covenant ritual between Abraham and some God? who appeared as smoke and fire and interceded for him.

Firetree said:

In that regard , to me, I have to consider it one of the most successful con jobs in history ! ( and the modern world still has ideas about God from this source ! )

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Do you suggest that none of what was written could have come from another place (DIVINELY INSPIRED) from spirits, or other forces? Do you think that it is a historical collection of books? What about the Quran or Torah which aren’t ‘compiled’ in the same way?

I see it different. Isra-El means "He struggles with God".

Abraham opposed God, unlike Noah. Pleaded the cause of Mankind. NOT just two cities, that was the endgame.

To be true to the narrative, you don't demonize like what Gnostics do, you oppose Him. Like Abraham.

My life mission is to be Abraham, to oppose God, in pursuit of Justice, with a balance of Mercy.

Bible is collection of very old texts... and there it ends for me.

I have written it in other threads as well. My reformed grandmother gave as a present me a child-version of the Bible when I was at ten or eleven. I was expected to read it. What she didn't know was that I had borrow in the local Library already the books from Homerus and did read them. For me the bible only was another collection of stories and I liked Homerus more than the Bible.

Later on I started to sing the Matthäus Passion, but it is the drama that Bach pointed so well that catched me, not Matthew. I love baroque and this was a kind of Jesus Christ Superstar movie for me. The spiritual is in the concerts more in how people, singers/ performers / conductor / public, engage with that story emotionally. That is still quite impressive.

I was indoctrinated into the Jehovah's Witness version of the Bible from an early age. One can go to their official website for public information about their beliefs. It is a cult mentality. The hook is "you can live forever on Earth because God promised it." According to them, the Bible is the account of Jehovah's vindication of His Great Name which was besmirched by the lies of Satan and his demons. We are living in the time of the end since 1914 when Jesus Christ became enthroned in Heaven as king of God's Kingdom, and soon Jesus and his angels will act to destroy the wicked world of Satan by killing billions of wicked people. Perhaps tens of millions of the faithful will survive Armageddon and begin life in paradise during a restoration period lasting a thousand years. During this time, Earth will be restored to God's plan of perfection and the dead will be resurrected to live again on Earth with the exception of those who died in periods of Divine judgement, such as the flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, and Armageddon. After that time Satan and his demons will be let out of the Abyss to tempt perfected mankind one last time.

So, imagine coming from that sort of indoctrination with a compelling story line. Those who leave it are considered as good as dead. To break the indoctrination requires that one to destroy the story from a logical, rational perspective, because it is a story that pretends to be based on reason. The miracles of the Bible are gone, and God is far away in Heaven. Fortunately, there is no Hell because the Bible says in some scriptures that the dead are conscious of nothing at all. - Ecclesiastes 9

I reasoned that if the story itself was false, then I'd be dead and "unconscious" anyway. I was perhaps wasting my time in service to an American corporation pretending to be a religion. Perhaps it was just another elaborate lie. I became a cynical atheist. I saw all the logical flaws of the Bible, the compilation errors and outright manipulations in the OT were plain to see from a purely modern way of thinking. The letters of the NT didn't match well with the Gospel accounts either. The words attributed to Paul that "all scripture is inspired of God" seemed like an incredibly convenient way for mere men to assert a power over others that they did not deserve.

After writing all of that, I confess that I have attained a new-found respect for the Bible in recent years. The great irony is that my study of the occult and magic are the reason for this change of heart, because Jehovah's Witnesses believe that the occult is demonic and magic only comes from Satan. Once I abandoned the literalist, materialist way of thinking so common in modern Christianity, I began to appreciate the mystical message of the allegories found in the Bible. Reading works by William Blake, Neville Goddard, and others renewed my appreciation for so many stories that never made logical sense, but it turns out they weren't meant to be taken literally.

zyfrtheFirst said:

Do you suggest that none of what was written could have come from another place (DIVINELY INSPIRED) from spirits, or other forces? Do you think that it is a historical collection of books? What about the Quran or Torah which aren’t ‘compiled’ in the same way?

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Lets say I am talking about 'what the Bible is for me ' . Considering that I feel free to say here that, yes I will suggest some came from such a place ... a place where a spirit is invoked by blood animal sacrifice , throwing the blood around the temple , BBQing some kidney (as the smell of that cooking kidney fat is the spirits fav incense ) and one that is jealous and vindictive and directs their followers to go out an massacre people and take over their land ... yeah ... that type of spirit . That type of spirit that many base their ideas of God upon !

However that is a totally different slant on what I wrote about the Bible OT and NT being compiled .

The Koran and Torah cant be summed up together in this vein , as the Torah is the actual part that Josiah inserted to make up the book ( do you realize they 'found ' the Torah while revamping the temple ? * The thing is ... this original scam ( and the evolution of their ancient God into the modern one ) was the origin of and influence on Judaism, Christianity , Islam, Baha'i .

I realize this is 'hard history' for many 'religionists ' ... and BBQs the 'sacred cow' but hey , nothing should stand in the way of knowledge.

For further info I suggest one consult the good Doctor ;




* I have even heard a Rabbi say this , '' They found the Torah in a cave ? - give me a break ! .... '' ( however I should point out that I agree with him, in that ) '' ..... but aside from that , its a great story ! And the importance of this story is that it has allowed Jews to co-exist, identify and remain and preserve their culture through all sorts of difficulties and repressions ... and we are still here . ''

So its a 'successful ' scripture .

AlfrunGrima said:

I have written it in other threads as well. My reformed grandmother gave as a present me a child-version of the Bible when I was at ten or eleven. I was expected to read it. What she didn't know was that I had borrow in the local Library already the books from Homerus and did read them. For me the bible only was another collection of stories and I liked Homerus more than the Bible.

Later on I started to sing the Matthäus Passion, but it is the drama that Bach pointed so well that catched me, not Matthew. I love baroque and this was a kind of Jesus Christ Superstar movie for me. The spiritual is in the concerts more in how people, singers/ performers / conductor / public, engage with that story emotionally. That is still quite impressive.

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Thats actually similar to how I learned about the bible stories. I was given a kid friendly version of the bible and then nothing else after that. They were just play pretend stories to me that were kind of difficult to make sense of.

Jesus Christ Superstar is what introduced me to the story of Jesus. I knew the generals. One man helps people by ???. I didn't know who Judas was. Who Paul, Peter, or John were. I did some research after watching the movie.

The Bible to me was a point of isolation. All my peers knew about this grand story and went to these grand buildings to worship. I wasn't included because I couldn't go. I was just kind of left out and then learned about it later. I wasn't socialized with how serious it was for some people and learned later that this is a belief system.

I just don't have the same cultural context as most of my peers growing up so I had to work to understand them. It was a lot of work mostly on my end. Its just kind of isolating sometimes.

Monty Pythons Life of Brian was my other introduction into the story of Jesus. That was the most cultural context I got for it. We didn't go to church so I learned more of what I was into as kid which was ancient Egypt. Not even just the mythology like I wanted to learn how to write in the language of hieroplghys. I thought they looked pretty cool as a kid.

I never got around to learning it though. Not enough focus. I also learned about ancient Greek culture and a ton of different cultural myths and legends.

Life of Brian is a good movie.

Its a literary corpus of mystic, mythological, legal, and pseudo-historical literature. It should be taken seriously by mystics, historians, magus, and the religious but never interpreted literally. I believe it is divinely inspired, as many other religious texts are, but it is not without error as it may be inspired by God but is still written and butchered by men.

I believe the entire Corpus and its surrounding apocrypha are living, breathing texts and contain the highest mysteries for those who can see what is underneath it.

I echo the sentiments of the earlier poster in that the Old Testament/Torah are of the utmost importance for any mystic/magus and regard the Pauline letters to be nearly useless in esoteric value.

Revelations is gnostic drivel and should be discarded from the Abrahamic corpus entirely.

It is the cornerstone of the Neoplatonism that was baked into my bones through eight years of parochial school, four years of Catholic High School, four years of Catholic University and eight years of graduate work in various seminaries. It is, in short, my lineage and the eyes through which I see the world, rather than a statement of my personal theological or doctrinal orientation, nor is it related to praxis, but if I am working any form of magic from within/without/or tangential to the Western Mystery tradition it is the water I swim in. As @AbammonTheGreat put it :

"Its a literary corpus of mystic, mythological, legal, and pseudo-historical literature. It should be taken seriously by mystics, historians, magus, and the religious but never interpreted literally. I believe it is divinely inspired, as many other religious texts are, but it is not without error as it may be inspired by God but is still written and butchered by men. I believe the entire Corpus and its surrounding apocrypha are living, breathing texts and contain the highest mysteries for those who can see what is underneath it. I echo the sentiments of the earlier poster in that the Old Testament/Torah are of the utmost importance for any mystic/magus."

It’s a work full of mysteries

To me it's an interesting tool.

Some people go crazy with it, you see them on the streets preaching, 100% lost their minds I remember a man on a bus, he had lost his mind and gave long lectures. At first I thought he was trolling but no, others saw him every now and then doing the same thing.

Some find it to be a useful text for becoming spiritually very open to all energy work. Others find it to have a ritual value, maybe use it for meditations, I regularly use it for rituals, mostly psalms, gospels, torah, and I love the effects.
Some would say it is nothing more than a grimoire, with coded messages and rituals.

When we look at any ordinary hammer, what can we say. You could hit yourself with it (go crazy) or do work (build something, become better at it), or attack others with it (like those street preachers and such).

The "Judeo-Christian" bible is a two part tome crafted by various people for various reasons over quite a while.

This is not "my" statement, I came across this while searching for something else on the net some years ago.

The Old Testament:
Biblical scholarship is proving that Yahweh, Yod Heh Vav Heh, is simply just a "Canaanite" War Deity, and originally was never known as the God of the Universe. The idea (God of the Universe) was stolen from the Greeks, namely Plato, and his elucidation of the Creator of All That Is.
The Hebrew Bible is a Fiction invented around: 272 BC to 273 BC. (See Russell Gmirkin's scholarly works for confirmation.)

This is "my" statement.

The New Testament:
IMO, the New Testament is a "cleverly designed control system" originated by the Roman Emperor Constantine when he convened the "Council of Nicaea" in 325 C.E. He "basically" said something to the effect of: No one leaves until I'm happy with this Christian thing I want to force everyone (in the Known World) to adopt, because I'm the Emperor! Of course that isn't an exact quote, but you get the idea? There have been various and sundry tweaks and stuff for example by James I, also known as James VI of Scotland, which make it especially appealing for many folks? Very simply that's how I "see" it. YMMV!

Both of those statements together comprise my "view" of the judeo-Christian bible in case I didn't make that clear.

Asteriskos said:

Both of those statements together comprise my "view" of the judeo-Christian bible in case I didn't make that clear.

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There are some other issues that I have with the New Testament involving Jesus (including references in the PGM) that I tried to talk about here:



Maybe I always was a "polythestic, pantheist, animist" close enough!

My summation is that I left the Judeo-Christian Bible behind quite a while ago, I'm Free!

To me the bible is a book of texts preached to me in church school (which was also my regular school at the time) as a small child, and currently a book that sits in a pile of many other books at the foot of me and my partner's bed. My preferred translation is a somewhat enjoyable read, a decent study when read within its context but not of much value to my practice generally.

To be quite honest, I truly can't stand the Bible. Ever since, I learned that the God of the Bible wanted people to worship him and only him. Everything else, is blasphemous against him. But then again, the Bible is a myth. I really feel that Jesus is an Egregore.

Asteriskos said:

This is "my" statement.

The New Testament:
IMO, the New Testament is a "cleverly designed control system" originated by the Roman Emperor Constantine when he convened the "Council of Nicaea" in 325 C.E. He "basically" said something to the effect of: No one leaves until I'm happy with this Christian thing I want to force everyone (in the Known World) to adopt, because I'm the Emperor! Of course that isn't an exact quote, but you get the idea? There have been various and sundry tweaks and stuff for example by James I, also known as James VI of Scotland, which make it especially appealing for many folks? Very simply that's how I "see" it. YMMV!

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Agreed. It was also when teachings of original church were made. In spirit of Roman Empire.