an interpretation of PGM XIX 4-18

[Yazata]

PGM XIXb 4-18
gives a
Love Spell of attraction over a dog

It's a bit weird that there's no mention of any dog whatsoever in this Spell, unless it is a dog who has “died a violent death” (or maybe the it was originally intended for someone who really likes dogs..)
The idea of calling on the spirit of a deceased one to bring the target of your desire to you makes me wonder if this is a source for (a version of..) that infamous spell of the restless spirit

This is the text as given in the PGM:

"Onto a cutting of hieratic papyrus write with myrrh and dedicate it to one who has died a violent death.

I adjure you by the
SENAKOTHO
ARPOPSYG
KAMOUO
ORPS
THO
OUCH
PETI
ANOUP
PETIOPARIN
AUT
KINOTHEN
CHYCH
AAA
ROPS
UICHTHEN
KREMME
SECHAXTHNE
NEOUPHTHE
AKECH
CHAKE
POPHOPI
KACHE
ANOCH
ETHME
ARI
MES
THOD
PE
you who are able
raise your body and go to N.N.
until she/he is willing"

+

In the footnotes it says

“CHAKE POPHOPI KACHE ANOCH etc is equivalent to
Darkness, Apophis, darkness I am..”


I think it could be something else and have separated those closing lines from the rest. The interpretation is done with the idea that these mysterious barbaric words are (close to) Hebrew.

+

Here is what I think the translation of the spell could be:

(from the) grave of the hated
proud and led astray
(your) anger
frightens
come
and bend
the silly one (to my will)
swell up with anger
break her / his silliness
(so that I can) enjoy (her / him)
become a chain
of desire
press her / him
accuser
(cast your) net
cut her / his throat (or make her / him) agree
make her / him be voluptuous
you are
the final blow

the hook
in her / his proud mouth
(she / he who) spits (at you)
I urge you
who are
tasked with carrying out
(and to whom)
I give thanks
with my mouth

+

So... Have fun!​

 

[HoldAll]

Preisendanz has it:

Beiführungszauber mit einem Hund. Auf ein Stück hieratischen Papyrus schreib mit Myrrhe und leg's nieder bei einem getöteten (Hund). [Ich beschwöre dich], bei dem (Zauberworte), du, mächtiger (Geist), erwecke deinen Körper und begib dich [zur NN], solang es will […

"Fetching spell with a dog. Write on a piece of hieratic papyrus with myrrh and lay it down by a killed (dog). [I conjure you], by the (magic words), you, mighty (spirit), raise your body and go [to the NN] as long as it will [..."

In "The Erotic and Separation Spells of the Magical Papyri and Defixiones", Eleni Pachoumi gives the title of the spell as "Erotic spell that leads over a dog". Maybe the idea is to use the spirit of the dead animal ("with a dog") as a kind of shepherd dog to chase the victim to the sorcerer as in other PGM spells.

Interesting interpretation of the barbarous names, btw… do you think they are really Hebrew?

 

[Yazata]

Preisendanz has it:

O, in the paperback I have (the one edited by Dieter Betz) he says in the footnote that Preisendanz indeed thinks it refers to the grave of a dog but that "the text is too fragmentary".
As dogs are man's friend and indeed fetch it would be a logical conclusion to draw but I wanted to make (yet gave up on) a joke about zoophilia or bitches..

The Erotic and Separation Spells of the Magical Papyri and Defixiones

Jesus Christ. The PGM is a book of around 250 pages. How many writers have plundered these spells?! I saw there are a couple of references to Hermes in it, has someone already written the True Grimoire of Hermes by copy pasting this book (I'm joking but the answer probably is : yes, several)

btw… do you think they are really Hebrew?

Not real Hebrew but I definitely think a lot of these voces magica are simply that. Hebrew or garbled Yazata-style Hebrew.
When you start to translate words it becomes clear (to confirmation biased me at least...) that the Greek parts that are translated into English for the books comes very close to the "restored" Hebrew.

 

[HoldAll]

Jesus Christ. The PGM is a book of around 250 pages. How many writers have plundered these spells?! I saw there are a couple of references to Hermes in it, has someone already written the True Grimoire of Hermes by copy pasting this book (I'm joking but the answer probably is : yes, several)

Nah. Eleni Pachoumi is a

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at the University of Thessaloniki, she writes those papers which are half in Greek and in which the footnotes sometimes take up almost the entire page. Her "Divine Epiphanies of Paredroi in the Greek Magical Papyri" about the acquisition of a personal omnipotent super-servitor for all occasions isn't half bad. All her papers are freely available on the net, she is as far from a grimoire author as you can get.

 

[Aeternus]

Nah. Eleni Pachoumi is a

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at the University of Thessaloniki, she writes those papers which are half in Greek and in which the footnotes sometimes take up almost the entire page. Her "Divine Epiphanies of Paredroi in the Greek Magical Papyri" about the acquisition of a personal omnipotent super-servitor for all occasions isn't half bad. All her papers are freely available on the net, she is as far from a grimoire author as you can get.

Wow! I just checked the link inserted in the "scholar" text and I must say, 9 publications and it is also available for free.

That's great to hear. And yeah, she is far from a grimmoire author.

 

[Asteriskos]

Nah. Eleni Pachoumi is a

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at the University of Thessaloniki, she writes those papers which are half in Greek and in which the footnotes sometimes take up almost the entire page. Her "Divine Epiphanies of Paredroi in the Greek Magical Papyri" about the acquisition of a personal omnipotent super-servitor for all occasions isn't half bad. All her papers are freely available on the net, she is as far from a grimoire author as you can get.

Thanks for including that link, any insights on the PGM are of interest.

Post automatically merged: Aug 24, 2024

I hope this is sufficiently on topic because the OP presents a a very interesting possibility on the interpretations.
What I've thought at times is that considering the demographics of the times that entries to to the PGM were made, how many of the contributors were sufficiently multi-lingual. Say fluent in Demotic, Hebrew, Greek, et al, and thought and wrote sometimes in a mix and match format. Perhaps to them it was simply a matter of the "best fit" for an expression, or way of saying something? Maybe it doesn't sound logical to anyone else, it's merely something that occurred to me while reading some of the translations a while back, and seeing this interesting post brought that back.

Post automatically merged: Aug 25, 2024

Thanks for including that link, any insights on the PGM are of interest.

Post automatically merged: Aug 24, 2024

I hope this is sufficiently on topic because the OP presents a a very interesting possibility on the interpretations.
What I've thought at times is that considering the demographics of the times that entries to to the PGM were made, how many of the contributors were sufficiently multi-lingual. Say fluent in Demotic, Hebrew, Greek, et al, and thought and wrote sometimes in a mix and match format. Perhaps to them it was simply a matter of the "best fit" for an expression, or way of saying something? Maybe it doesn't sound logical to anyone else, it's merely something that occurred to me while reading some of the translations a while back, and seeing this interesting post brought that back.

I get an overall sense of Hellenized Egyptian, but certainly may be wrong.

 

[Sabbatius]

Not real Hebrew but I definitely think a lot of these voces magica are simply that. Hebrew or garbled Yazata-style Hebrew.
When you start to translate words it becomes clear (to confirmation biased me at least...) that the Greek parts that are translated into English for the books comes very close to the "restored" Hebrew.

Sadly most of the Hebrew outside of Judea at this time was not the finest. Heck, even some of the manuscripts, if not from scholastic houses or Scribes were rough. The language was not dead but the influences from Greek were growing exponentially in the regions. Alexandria, the Nag Hammadi, other fragments we have found which contain any Hebrew at all are pretty poor even in grammar.

I get an overall sense of Hellenized Egyptian, but certainly may be wrong.

Definitely the PGM is chock full of Bastardized "Hebrew" applied as "Voces Magica."