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Are anti-depressants actually useful or are they bullshit?

Accipeveldare

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I have dealt with lots of depression in the past and when I used anti depressants that were prescribed to me they either did nothing or made it worse. Are there any that actually work or are they all just horribly concocted medications that don't work?
 

HoldAll

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"Making it worse" I find hard to believe, either they work or they don't although they might trigger a manic episode if you're undiagnosed bipolar.

I was lucky most of the time. Anti-depressants literally saved my life. Whenever they kicked in after two weeks or so, I went from stark terror (so bad that I lay in my darkened room all day and only ventured - cautiously - out at night because I was scared to death of people and hated the sunlight) to pretty normal, i.e. more or less full functionality interspersed with just bearable misery, usually for three or four hours every morning. Antidepressants aren't happy pills, the keyword is 'functionality' here - they ensure that you can work, maintain meaningful relationships and so on but they don't confer bliss, no matter what the Prozac hype was about when that med first came out.

The last episode, however, was horrible. The first antidepressant the doc gave me didn't work but you only know for sure after taking them for three or four weeks, so it was stark horror again for that period of time. Then he tried another one which eventually worked, after another three weeks of hell. This is the typical pattern people have to go through, I was really the exception to the rule earlier in my psychopathological career (I don't like the term 'neurodivergent' when describing my condition). For some people antidepressants don't seem to work at all, I don't know the exact percentage (20%?) but I really wouldn't want to be in their shoes.

I've met scores of people over the years for whom antidepressants worked. They are not just diabolical inventions of Big Bad Money-Grabbing Pharma and what's more, they have improved significantly over the years. I'm one of those severe cases where not taking them isn't an option anymore so I don't worry about side effects or any alleged 'blunting of feelings'.
 

WisdomAddict

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Find the root cause of depression
Most of the time it's outer factor or environment or genetics or diet and other health issues like vitaminc and minerals deficiency
In my case all of the above and pills made it worse and possible neurodamage and caused more problems like panic attacks and hairloss (balding in my 20s)
I found Psilocybin mushrooms very helping
I tried several type of them
 

Xenophon

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My doctor sister swears by them. Probably because the insurance companies like them better than other therapies. I knew a lot of Stateside folks who used them; few that said much good about them. Very much the choice between two evils. And, as Wisdom Addict above hints, the choice is not necessarily A or B alone.
 

pixel_fortune

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They work well for some people, not at all for others, and have bad side effects for some

The issue with RCTs is they test them across a huge number of people who are chosen randomly, and I understand why, but "on average, they're not that good" covers for the fact that for people who respond well, they can be a gamechanger. Population-level data is good for population-level policy, not for individual decision-making, although it should be a guide ofc

OP, you're falling into that trap a bit when you say "they didn't work for me - so I think they might be fake." But something not working for you doesn't mean it doesn't work for anyone else. Even the most evidence based medicine in the world doesn't work for everyone, so you can never use yourn own reaction as a guide for whether the medication is fake.

(And on the flipside, people get really evangelical about their own medication or yoga practice or whatever because they think "if it worked for me, it MUST work for everyone else" - it's hard for them to believe that people really are physiologically different)

People also criticise them because often a good diet and exercise would be a better treatment that drugs - that's true, but very very hard for depressed people to just do. Drugs can be the circuit-breaker that lifts someone's mood enough that they can start going for daily walks, which then lifts their mood further such that they're inspired to clean their house, etc etc. It can trigger a virtuous circle.
 

Promise

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One of the factors that affects how well any medication works is placebo. If someone takes a medication expecting, or at least being open to it working, statistically makes it is more likely to work. Now that is my interpretation of an aspect of placebo, which I don't know how much experimentation has been done to prove it out. My idea is if an inert pill of some sort can trigger a healing response in itself, in very roughly 20-30% of patients, combining an actual medication with placebo effect is likely to increase the positive effect of the medication.

A quick Google turned this up:
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Cherry picking a few interesting quotes from it:

"Telling patients that they were being treated by an active medication doubled its effectiveness on a continuous measure of anxiety and tripled the response rate."

and, "Many depressed patients report substantial improvement after taking antidepressant medication, as do psychiatrists when describing their outcomes. How are we to reconcile this with the consistent finding that the differences between the response to antidepressants and placebos are vanishingly small? The answer is the placebo response. Although drug–placebo differences in outcome are equivalent to no difference at all, both drug and placebo responses can be substantial."

and, “a clinical response following treatment (drug response) is not synonymous with an effect which can be attributed to the treatment (drug effect)."

"Thus, the placebo effect was 50% of the drug response—double the drug effect and also double the response found in the no-treatment controls. It was a genuine placebo effect."

"Now placebos can also generate side effects, a phenomenon known as the nocebo effect, but they do so to a much lesser degree than active medications. "

"...placebos have been found effective to the condition being treated, that it has been found to involve Pavlovian conditioning, and that it might therefore be effective in treating the person’s condition."

"The long-term advantage of psychotherapy over medication has been shown in a number of studies [reviewed in Ref. (
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
)]. Whereas short-term outcomes were equivalent between the two treatments, long-term outcomes were significantly better for patients who had received psychotherapy than for those who had received medication. " --- So, if you do take anti-depressants, also get therapy!

So, OP's reference in the post title as whether they are bullshit led me to considering placebo. Placebo, according to this meta-study, looks to be a significant factor in response to anti-depressant treatment.

It's good to see that researchers are looking at how is it possible to maximize placebo response.

For individuals, if you take anti-depressant meds, be open to the meds working, yet avoid the "Lust For Results" that every magician is only too familiar with, as I suppose it likely has a negative impact here as well.

Promise.
 

HoldAll

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One of the factors that affects how well any medication works is placebo. If someone takes a medication expecting, or at least being open to it working, statistically makes it is more likely to work. Now that is my interpretation of an aspect of placebo, which I don't know how much experimentation has been done to prove it out. My idea is if an inert pill of some sort can trigger a healing response in itself, in very roughly 20-30% of patients, combining an actual medication with placebo effect is likely to increase the positive effect of the medication.

A quick Google turned this up:
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Cherry picking a few interesting quotes from it:

"Telling patients that they were being treated by an active medication doubled its effectiveness on a continuous measure of anxiety and tripled the response rate."

and, "Many depressed patients report substantial improvement after taking antidepressant medication, as do psychiatrists when describing their outcomes. How are we to reconcile this with the consistent finding that the differences between the response to antidepressants and placebos are vanishingly small? The answer is the placebo response. Although drug–placebo differences in outcome are equivalent to no difference at all, both drug and placebo responses can be substantial."

and, “a clinical response following treatment (drug response) is not synonymous with an effect which can be attributed to the treatment (drug effect)."

"Thus, the placebo effect was 50% of the drug response—double the drug effect and also double the response found in the no-treatment controls. It was a genuine placebo effect."

"Now placebos can also generate side effects, a phenomenon known as the nocebo effect, but they do so to a much lesser degree than active medications. "

"...placebos have been found effective to the condition being treated, that it has been found to involve Pavlovian conditioning, and that it might therefore be effective in treating the person’s condition."

"The long-term advantage of psychotherapy over medication has been shown in a number of studies [reviewed in Ref. (
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
)]. Whereas short-term outcomes were equivalent between the two treatments, long-term outcomes were significantly better for patients who had received psychotherapy than for those who had received medication. " --- So, if you do take anti-depressants, also get therapy!

So, OP's reference in the post title as whether they are bullshit led me to considering placebo. Placebo, according to this meta-study, looks to be a significant factor in response to anti-depressant treatment.

It's good to see that researchers are looking at how is it possible to maximize placebo response.

For individuals, if you take anti-depressant meds, be open to the meds working, yet avoid the "Lust For Results" that every magician is only too familiar with, as I suppose it likely has a negative impact here as well.
Psychotherapy in tandem with antidepressants is Best Practice. I've also met people for whom cognitive behavioral therapy (which usually gets top marks in such studies) was enough to drag themselves out of the black hole of depression. However, I was one of the cases that needed meds in order to be able to begin psychotherapy in the first place (and progress beyond "yes" "no" style conversations). There usually wasn't much to talk about in terms of the past (I had a happy childhood in an average middle-class family, no trauma there whatsoever), it was more about behavioral and mental patterns in my adult life, and I didn't profit much from it - yes, I had insights but they didn't lead to any improvements in actual practical life.

Regarding such studies, I always wonder if there ever was a second stage where they give people who didn't respond to the placebo the actual drug in question instead - how would they fare? Modern physicians have a bad rep because of their tendency of prescribing pills instead of recommending more 'natural cures' but I've found that they are pretty pessimistic about people's ability to make lasting lifestyle changes. High blood pressure? Just quit smoking, lay off the booze, eat less meat, avoid stress and exercise regularly. Excellent advice but just how many people would be able to stick to such a regimen or even make the attempt? So doctors prescribe pills instead of relying on their patients' initiative.

Avoiding lust for results is a tall order when you're under psychological strain. You just want the suffering to end, period. I remember one Saturday afternoon when I was in a really bad shape and decided to try elaxation exercises coupled with affirmations; after four hours I was still shaking like a leaf. 'Soft' methods like these have their place but rely too much on patients' initiative (which can be fickle). It's a tough call for doctors to make.
 
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I have dealt with lots of depression in the past and when I used anti depressants that were prescribed to me they either did nothing or made it worse. Are there any that actually work or are they all just horribly concocted medications that don't work?
There are different types of antidepressants, you need to find the one that works for you. I personally don't respond to SSRIs and will be looking for other type of antidepressants in autumn, because my depression tend to get worse in winter, and I'm thinking MAOIs could work. Psychiatrist will decide that though, of course.
Also, as @HoldAll said, you need to combine pills with psychotherapy. Looking for the core of depression also might help, I found mine which turned out to be ADHD and working on that, and meds for that actually help me.
 

Djnenas

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I have dealt with lots of depression in the past and when I used anti depressants that were prescribed to me they either did nothing or made it worse. Are there any that actually work or are they all just horribly concocted medications that don't work?
Well, i have quite a few psychiatric diagnoses... one of them being Dysthymic Disorder...basically being depressed is normalcy to me, anything else becomes awkward. Ive been on multiple cocktails (12 to 15 pills daily at maximum dosage for each for YEARS!!!) and quite frankly they did nothing for me but keep me Zoombied-out all day and make me gain water weight that started affecting my joints since i am petite naturally so 130lbs when my normal weight should be 90 - 100lbs did quite a number. I believe im better off without anything. The most important thing to understand is that it is ok not to be "normal" by book standards. Once you understand that you are who you are for a reason and make the conscious desicion to embrace it no matter what, you'll be on your way to a happier existence. Vitamins are crucial in any health endeavor. Sometimes that's all it is about. It is normal to be depressed in winter because there is not much sun light. So vitamin D3 with k2 is an option. Hope this helps and wish you the best on your journey
 

Accipeveldare

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Well, i have quite a few psychiatric diagnoses... one of them being Dysthymic Disorder...basically being depressed is normalcy to me, anything else becomes awkward. Ive been on multiple cocktails (12 to 15 pills daily at maximum dosage for each for YEARS!!!) and quite frankly they did nothing for me but keep me Zoombied-out all day and make me gain water weight that started affecting my joints since i am petite naturally so 130lbs when my normal weight should be 90 - 100lbs did quite a number. I believe im better off without anything. The most important thing to understand is that it is ok not to be "normal" by book standards. Once you understand that you are who you are for a reason and make the conscious desicion to embrace it no matter what, you'll be on your way to a happier existence. Vitamins are crucial in any health endeavor. Sometimes that's all it is about. It is normal to be depressed in winter because there is not much sun light. So vitamin D3 with k2 is an option. Hope this helps and wish you the best on your journey
Thank you. This actually helped a lot. I'll take your advice and try switching to just vitamins for a bit and see how it works
 

Faaram

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I have dealt with lots of depression in the past and when I used anti depressants that were prescribed to me they either did nothing or made it worse. Are there any that actually work or are they all just horribly concocted medications that don't work?
This is a complex subject. Anti-depressants are tools to be used to help in the treatment, as any other medication they will help if used scientifically and based in evidence, if not they will do nothing at best and cause harm at worse. Many medications have collateral effects. Did you talk to your psychiatrist about this? He should switch medications to a more suitable and effective. Keep in mind that these medicines take some time, like 2 weeks to beging making effect, that if you follow the prescription correctly. I'd support the other comments recomendating vitamins. Unless you are diagnosticated with a disease or personality disorder, much change can be done through changing lifestyle habits such as food and getting more time in the open.

They are drugs, though, and might be just causing harm, it's just hard to tell you which case is without further information. Some people will just experience the colateral effects, sadly, without much benefit. Other than the lifestyle and diet changes folks mentioned here, there isn't much we'll be able to help, specially without more information.
 
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