[Opinion] Arthur C. Clarke was wrong...

[KjEno186]

Famed science fiction writer Arthur C. Clarke once said that any sufficiently advanced technology would appear to be magick to those with lesser technologies. This statement is false because it assumes a definition for magick which is not possible, that magick is the same as creating objects using materials and methods found in the physical world.

Magick is the art of causing change in consciousness to occur in conformity with will. Magickal manifestation occurs in the physical plane by synchronicity without apparent cause. Furthermore, one cannot assume that all cultures would look at physical technology in the same way. That would be psychological projection. Clarke was projecting his own beliefs upon other cultures in a blanket fashion.

Is there any actual proof that 'primitive' tribal people finally exposed to modern technology believe that it is magick? What are your thoughts?

 

[Ancient]

This is an interesting one

If the statement read “some sufficiently advanced technologies” rather than “any sufficiently advanced” I would agree wholeheartedly. But of course such a statement is far less exciting, and authors have a way of creating polarizing topics for publicity’s sake. Discussion is good for the career.

I disagree with you on one point for sure, and that is your impossible definition of magick. I exist in the physical plane, and I have done magick using only methods and materials found here. The more I have learned about magick, the more mundane it has seemed to become. It exists here, already, whether our culture(s) by and large acknowledge the existence or not. The definition of magick as something otherworldly seems to be a byproduct of our mainstream materialist philosophy. Once the shock and awe fades a little, once you can recreate a magickal act…does it seem the same as when you were first learning and straining to achieve it?

Proof of such a concept is difficult to obtain without time travel. You would require a clear and specific method of communication with a primitive tribe, but have such little previous exposure with them that they had not become accustomed to your technology in any meaningful way. Then you would have to account for their belief system and way of life; this is such a large variable that you may get drastically different results from societies that appear nearly identical from a distance.

 

[Roma]

Arthur C. Clarke once said that any sufficiently advanced technology would appear to be magick to those with lesser technologies. This statement is false because it assumes a definition for magick which is not possible, that magick is the same as creating objects using materials and methods found in the physical world.

Magick is the art of causing change in consciousness to occur in conformity with will.

I doubt that Clarke wrote about magick. I expect that he wrote about magic - using the term to refer to mysterious powers.

 

[KjEno186]

It exists here, already, whether our culture(s) by and large acknowledge the existence or not.

Which makes me wonder if the supposedly 'primitive' tribe suddenly exposed to modern technology wasn't already well ahead of modern rationalists like Clarke, for example, knowing how to work with spirits and other aspects of what we call the occult more profoundly than rationalist moderns. I cannot prove it, but that's one hypothesis. Did Clarke really understand magic, or was he changing the definition to suit his ignorance, projecting that ignorance on 'primitive' people who lacked technology. Clarke seems to be saying, "My internal combustion engine and telephone use advanced technology, but you silly primitives think it's magic." We've seen that rather patronizing attitude expressed by conquering nations of the recent past as has been well documented in the history books. But it's no secret that advanced technology alone cannot fill voids of purpose and spirituality.

 

[Vandheer]

I interpreted that as primitives would think that would be magick, as well.

 

[stalkinghyena]

I used to wrestle with that one, going one way or the other if I consider "magic" as synonymous with "miracle". I thought Clarke's Childhood's End (I saw the movie) was his attempt to grapple with the subject of spirituality (+"magic") and science with twists - which struck me that he might be creatively confused but determined to work something out. But his little quip regarding the rustic mind is catchy, as has been noted, so the hard nosed like to run with it. So be it. It does not affect the initiated occultist except maybe to lure him or her the threshing of "fantasy vs. reality", but I think that working that problem and making use of it is part of what occult practice is all about.

In terms of our history, primitives may be fascinated by technologies from the advanced explorers/conquerers at first, but it is just a matter of time before they hear the eternal words of Ahhnold echoing through time: "If it bleeds, we can kill it."

In our world today, if modern "sufficiently advanced technology", even if it looked like magic, the culture would probably assume it was aliens, so Clarke kind of killed his own idea by expressing it. Still, a brand is a brand.

When I was a kid and I became enthralled with the miracle of syndication, Star Trek inspired me that it is not a closed issue, and that "bad poetry" is in the Eye (or pointed ears in this case) of the Beholder:

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[Tovan Zero]

Famed science fiction writer Arthur C. Clarke once said that any sufficiently advanced technology would appear to be magick to those with lesser technologies. This statement is false because it assumes a definition for magick which is not possible, that magick is the same as creating objects using materials and methods found in the physical world.

Magick is the art of causing change in consciousness to occur in conformity with will. Magickal manifestation occurs in the physical plane by synchronicity without apparent cause. Furthermore, one cannot assume that all cultures would look at physical technology in the same way. That would be psychological projection. Clarke was projecting his own beliefs upon other cultures in a blanket fashion.

Is there any actual proof that 'primitive' tribal people finally exposed to modern technology believe that it is magick? What are your thoughts?

I always thought that quote was in reference to the cargo cults that sprang up after WWII. The tribes worshipping effigies of the planes dropping off cargo in an attempt to summon them back, praying to divinities they named "Tom Navy". Hell, some of the cults are still going today apparently.

 

[RoccoR]

Forums • The Order • General Occult Discussion •

[Opinion] Arthur C. Clarke was wrong...​

※→ KjEno et al,

"Magic" (some sort of supernatural power) can not really be defined. It is some demonstration or event that is far beyond the frontier of the known hard sciences. It is a Metaphysical issue.
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Clarke was projecting his own beliefs upon other cultures in a blanket fashion.

(COMMENT)
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If there is a weakness in AC Clark's opinion, it is the various ways the human mind might perceive such an event.

There are many mental conjurings that humans have, that are so strong they have not been broken for 5000 years (at least). One such belief is in the Supreme Being.

Several religious rituals involve the Turning of Bread into the Body of a Supernatural being, in a collaborative process to come close to the deity as a means of communication. This is actually a form of "Alchemy."

The idea that a deity may extend a blessing is actually a ritual called "spell casting."

If you go to church on Sunday to pray to a Deity, then you are actually involved in a magical ritual that witches and warlocks perform.

Is there any actual proof that 'primitive' tribal people finally exposed to modern technology believe that it is magick? What are your thoughts?

(COMMENT)
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Is there such an example? → Yes!

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​

Hamish Kilburn​

Published 18:15, 29 October 2016 BST
| Last updated 11:01, 20 March 2018 GMT​

Most Respectfully,
R

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[KjEno186]

Is there such an example? → Yes!

Thanks for the reply. I found another article explaining the recent history of Cargo Cults here:

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Of interest to the discussion are the social and political facts surrounding the phenomenon. This wasn't simply seeing airplanes and making up a religion. As pointed out in the article I linked,

"The term cargo cult originated in the 19th century as a derogatory expression characterizing indigenous practices in the Melanesia subregion of the southwestern Pacific. The principle behind the idea of cargo cults is the ritualized building of infrastructure and subsequent acquisition of European colonial trade goods as a way to accumulate wealth.​

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"For instance, a remote village on an island might build an airplane runway in order for European colonists to arrive with cargo, or gifts from Western civilization. A small community with no electricity or running water might build a mock airplane out of straw and sticks, in a form of sympathetic magic, as an attempt to bring more airplanes to their area, bringing cargo."​

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Instead of viewing them as proof of Arthur C. Clark's assertion that technology appears magical to any primitive, it would inform the conversation more clearly to see Cargo Cults as part of a unique phenomenon involving the evolution of religious beliefs of indigenous people when confronted by a highly materialistic, complex, and exploitative Western culture.

Now, the interesting question is, does the "sympathetic magic" as noted in the linked article work? The answer ventures into the subjective, since I cannot say for certain what the intent happens to be when they perform the ritual of constructing mock airstrips, for example. My guess is that the intent is to increase material wealth, which would be no different than any number of rituals performed by sorcerers in the West. Note the popularity of "money magic" books! My additional guess is that they're not conflating airplanes and cell phones - i. e. sufficiently advanced technology - with "magic" as Arthur C. Clark would have had us believe to be the case. And who are we to say that their magic isn't working for them in the way that they intend it to? It would not surprise me to see these indigenous folk using cell phones to record selfies as they take leaps from their homemade bungee jump towers.