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At what point are you ready for evocation?

motzfeldt

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This is of course a big goal for many occultists but as to the "when" seems to be a matter of contention. I started working with Bardon´s "Initiation Into Hermetics" a few months ago and according to him you should not attempt any evocation until all 10 steps of his book are complete, which if you´re not following his course, implies a total mastery over low magic. Completing all 10 steps of his course to a good standard will no doubt take years. On the other hand, there are people who seem to jump into evocation straight away! So I´m confused. Is Bardon being hyperbolic? I´m not even talking about cracking up an Ars Goetia and summoning a demon or Satan himself or whatever, but you know, even just Venusian or Solar spirits or what have you. At what point is one "ready"? After balancing their elements?

What do you think?
 

Lemongrass00

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This is of course a big goal for many occultists but as to the "when" seems to be a matter of contention. I started working with Bardon´s "Initiation Into Hermetics" a few months ago and according to him you should not attempt any evocation until all 10 steps of his book are complete, which if you´re not following his course, implies a total mastery over low magic. Completing all 10 steps of his course to a good standard will no doubt take years. On the other hand, there are people who seem to jump into evocation straight away! So I´m confused. Is Bardon being hyperbolic? I´m not even talking about cracking up an Ars Goetia and summoning a demon or Satan himself or whatever, but you know, even just Venusian or Solar spirits or what have you. At what point is one "ready"? After balancing their elements?

What do you think?
Balancing the elements is a good marker, it will allow you to become strong enough internally to handle it.

Also, angels can be evoked pretty much anytime.
 

Omee

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Arbatel's spirits are amenable to humanity, I don't think that there's a specific point where you have to get to say okay I will evoke entities now. You're already working with entities implicitly all the times one way or another even with elemental breathing and accumulation. The Genii loci, elementals, local and nature spirits would try to get in touch with you.


Best idea from my side is to try the Arbatel's method Aphorism 14, 21, 21(license to depart). It is simple and you can cycle through the olympic spirits trying to get to know them. Work with the Gods, Angels, and spirits as you train, that will accelerate the work/training, remember the Trident of Paracelsus, It's like one big Shin letter of action combining YHVH within it's part.
 

heavysm

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As a professional occultist...you might just be slightly over thinking the evocation part of ritual magick.

I have worked with people who were either reserved or just very hesitant to begin with actual ritual sorcery, and I must say that it was always better than they had imagined. It might have taken a lot of practice and work to get it fully going, but that is a simple aspect and piece of the magick process.

As soon as you are done with your ritual sorcery book, and know roughly what you want to target with your ritual, that is when I believe you are most ready to get into spirit evocation, and proper ritual magick. This is not a complex process at all, and I firmly believe with the right process, and guidance you will not have any problems...whatsoever. Maybe even shoot me a question or two, and I might give you a bit of guidance and help if you wish. I always see it as a good thing when other occultists reach out for genuine occult and sorcery help.
 
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Being able to do something to some extent and being someone else’s opinion of ready isn’t the same thing.

That being said Barton isn’t wrong, you’ll be better prepared if you work up to it in stages while laying a strong foundation as you go.

Then again the old fuck around and find out method can be effective too.

-Eld
 

Vandheer

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Bardon is overcautious and keeping it safe when he tells you you could only start evoking when you finish step eight. Not sure where step 10 thing came from.


complete, which if you´re not following his course, implies a total mastery over low magic.
Which would mean you don't neccesarily need to evoke beings, if you think about it.


On the other hand, there are people who seem to jump into evocation straight away!
Well you wouldn't find such instructions in manuals from his time, this is a more recent thing.

If you are gonna go through Bardons route, go through it word by word if you ask me.
 

Al-Zalaam

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This is of course a big goal for many occultists but as to the "when" seems to be a matter of contention. I started working with Bardon´s "Initiation Into Hermetics" a few months ago and according to him you should not attempt any evocation until all 10 steps of his book are complete, which if you´re not following his course, implies a total mastery over low magic. Completing all 10 steps of his course to a good standard will no doubt take years. On the other hand, there are people who seem to jump into evocation straight away! So I´m confused. Is Bardon being hyperbolic? I´m not even talking about cracking up an Ars Goetia and summoning a demon or Satan himself or whatever, but you know, even just Venusian or Solar spirits or what have you. At what point is one "ready"? After balancing their elements?

What do you think?

My recollection of Bardon's PME is a little rusty, but there are far too many reasons why it is a good idea to follow his instructions.

However, it should be mentioned that there's a bit of a discrepancy of understanding in this situation between Bardon's instruction and the common perception of the occult community.
Bardon's instruction is precisely concerning the legitimate, 100% literal definition of Evocation, while many occultists today are muppets who don't understand the difference between Evocation, Invocation, and more general spirit-work.
The term Evocation gets thrown around very loosely these days and many who are supposedly engaging in such a thing are in fact not.

First you got morons who seem to think any ritual work vaguely involving spirits is Evocation when all they're doing is some kind of spirit-sorcery, then you have those who are incidentally engaging with Invocation but don't quite grasp the difference between the two, and then finally, yes, there is a number of practitioners who are actually attempting to engage with actual Evocation.
A good portion of that last group fail and usually end up flaking from occultism period, while the majority of the other portion either fall prey to delusions and their own over-active imaginations, or actually end up managing to at least catch the attention of their target and may be gifted some interesting experiences or w/e by the generosity of said spirit.

Finally, there is that teeny-tiny portion who actually do manage to succeed with legitimate Evocation, but that is rarer than an honest politician.

But, notice that the vast majority of spirit-workers or "evokers" on occult forums usually allude to uncanny coincidences, dreams, successful spells or "blessings", and many other questionable anecdotes as evidence of success for their "Evocation" work?
Well that's not really what genuine Evocation is or what it's about, historically speaking. That's not true success in Evocation, it's failure in Evocation with side effects of success elsewhere (excluding just the delusional morons succeeding in theatre).

This state of things within the modern occult community is nothing at all what Bardon is presenting you with.
His intended course of instruction regarding Evocation is meant to put you in a position to effectively and reliably operate the 100% literal and historical practice of Evocation.
That means literally summoning the full manifested presence of a demon into the earth-zone right before your eyes and smelling that sulfur stench assaulting your nostrils, or summoning a planetary intelligence and feeling their overwhelming aura enveloping the room and vibrating every fiber of your mental, astral, and physical being - or summoning whatever other spirit you have in mind. The point is, it's very, very literal.
The things that can be gained from a spirit in such an interaction is equally fantastical.

But, it's not uncommon for even the most respected spirit-workers in any given occult community to have never had an experience with genuine Evocation, and they often doubt such a thing is even possible in the first place.
That's just how rare it is.

But that's what Bardon's instructions are situated for, and why they seem so demanding. Ridiculous magic requires ridiculous development.
Now there's plenty of lower-level spirit work that you can engage with that don't have such requirements, but just don't confuse other kinds of spirit-work with genuine Evocation as found in Bardon's PME.

Vandheer is correct, Bardon states that the practitioner may engage with the true practice of Evocation when the student has reached at least Step 8 of the IIH.
I didn't get to go over some of the practical details of why the course of development in the IIH is vital to the later operation of Evocation like I wanted to, but I only have so much time and that's an essay of its own that I'm too tired to write. 😂

I´m not even talking about cracking up an Ars Goetia and summoning a demon or Satan himself or whatever, but you know, even just Venusian or Solar spirits or what have you.

Just for the record, in regards to genuine Evocation, the Planetary Intelligences are far greater existential threats than most of the common demons you find in these kinds of grimoires. The Solar intelligences in particular are arguably the most dangerous spirits in the entire Cosmos alongside the Martian and Saturnian Intelligences.
Simply evoking the wrong Solar intelligence can result in your immediate and very literal obliteration.
The Planetary Intelligences are not to be taken lightly whatsoever when Evocation is involved, as they're probably close to the oldest and biggest spirits that exist, if not exactly that.
 

Tryp

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Besides how fitting it may be for you to follow literally protocol X, Y or Z, like beardedeldrige pointed out above, I would calmly question why is evocation a goal for you. I would consider what do you think it will bring that cannot be achieved through other means. Not that I say this to discourage you, maybe you are already perfectly aware of your reasons. But since you mention how some people "jump to evocation straight away", I think it's worth thinking a bit about why that is so.

Some people may decide it is the most powerful kind of magical working (which could be argued). Others may be mostly influenced by popular culture and myths. And many (been there) are driven by empirical motives, or by the importance we give to sensorial experiences, or by the desire to bring the Other to our personal frame of reality. Perhaps this is something you have already figured out, but if not, I'd give it some thought. Sometimes progress in magical practice takes time not just because developing techniques and tools takes time, but because knowing yourself and what you really want takes time.

Just for the record, in regards to genuine Evocation, the Planetary Intelligences are far greater existential threats than most of the common demons you find in these kinds of grimoires.

Hell to the yes.

To gauge the risk of engaging with different spirits you could start with the basic assumption that, the more alien they are (and that may have little to do with the picture we got of them from abrahamic traditions in our culture), the more challenging a direct contact with them can be. Spirits more closely related to human experience may or may not align with our interests, but there's a bigger chance of finding common grounds and to communicate. And IMO this has little to do with good or evil. Even in familiar cosmologies like the Greek classical pantheon there's a difference between working with gods (bound to human aspects of experience) or with titans (bound to forces that go beyond it).
 

SixtySkills

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At a minimum you should have access to your own Akasha (i.e. Void energy) and non-dual light. Akasha shreds subtle bodies and can send entities packing. Non-dual light makes sure you track along the lines of your higher purpose.

Without those, it is a game of willpower. And since these things never sleep...you eventually lose that game.
 
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