Crowley a Satanist?

[Gregorius]

I have sen this multiple times now that somewhat informed christians call crowley a satanist and equate thelema to satanisim
didint crowley attempt the Holy Guardian Angel ritual and take a lot of inspiration from the golden dawn
is this just another one of those "all occultisim is satanic things" or is there legitamate reason to believe that he was satanic (whatever that means)

 

[Robert Ramsay]

Crowley liked to make people think he was a Satanist

He loved attention even more than he loved other people's wives, money etc.

 

[Xenophon]

Crowley liked to make people think he was a Satanist

He loved attention even more than he loved other people's wives, money etc.

Nailed it!

Post automatically merged: Jul 14, 2024

I have sen this multiple times now that somewhat informed christians call crowley a satanist and equate thelema to satanisim
didint crowley attempt the Holy Guardian Angel ritual and take a lot of inspiration from the golden dawn
is this just another one of those "all occultisim is satanic things" or is there legitamate reason to believe that he was satanic (whatever that means)

Crowley coined his own religion, Thelema. (Or, yeah, it was "revealed" to him by Aiwass.) Satan plays no role in Thelema. People who call Crowley a Satanist are a good bit like SNL's "the Church Lady," rearranging the letters of Santa (Claus) to "discover" they also spell "Satan."

 

[TheHummingbirdWizard]

I have sen this multiple times now that somewhat informed christians call crowley a satanist and equate thelema to satanisim
didint crowley attempt the Holy Guardian Angel ritual and take a lot of inspiration from the golden dawn
is this just another one of those "all occultisim is satanic things" or is there legitamate reason to believe that he was satanic (whatever that means)

Crowley predates Satanism, which started in the 1960s. However, LaVey was highly inspired by Crowley, and adopted things from him such as using a Naked Women as/on the Altar. Crowley was also called the Beast 666 by his mother, and embraced that throughout his life.

So not a Satanist..but there may not have been Satanism without Crowley or it would have been very different.

 

[Xenophon]

Crowley predates Satanism, which started in the 1960s. However, LaVey was highly inspired by Crowley, and adopted things from him such as using a Naked Women as/on the Altar. Crowley was also called the Beast 666 by his mother, and embraced that throughout his life.

So not a Satanist..but there may not have been Satanism without Crowley or it would have been very different.

Read Huysmans "La Bas." (Down There) It is based on his experiences in a Satanist group in Paris c. 1890. Also Stanislaw Przybszewski's group "Satan's Children" in the same "decadent" era. LaVey was a magpie, collecting scraps from a good many sources. He was a popularizer par excellence, and quite an organizer but he scarcely founded Satanism itself. You might say he codified it. The Satanist St. Paul, if you will. Before him Satanists were fewer by far and a lot quieter.

 

[TheHummingbirdWizard]

Read Huysmans "La Bas." (Down There) It is based on his experiences in a Satanist group in Paris c. 1890. Also Stanislaw Przybszewski's group "Satan's Children" in the same "decadent" era. LaVey was a magpie, collecting scraps from a good many sources. He was a popularizer par excellence, and quite an organizer but he scarcely founded Satanism itself. You might say he codified it. The Satanist St. Paul, if you will. Before him Satanists were fewer by far and a lot quieter.

Well I'm not saying he was the first to play with the theme of Satan, but it is my understanding that he coined the term Satanism. Do we see these groups refered to as Satanism pre-Lavey or are they called this retroactively?

At the same time the Church of Satan sees groups that actually worship Satan to be devil worshipers and not Satanists, seeing that LaVey coined it to refer to his philosophy.

Regardless, thank you for the lead, I'll be looking into this.

 

[Ziran]

I have sen this multiple times now that somewhat informed christians call crowley a satanist and equate thelema to satanisim
didint crowley attempt the Holy Guardian Angel ritual and take a lot of inspiration from the golden dawn
is this just another one of those "all occultisim is satanic things" or is there legitamate reason to believe that he was satanic (whatever that means)

Nice avatar. You're a fan?

Anyways. Satanism is a misunderstood religion. Whatever. Good luck putting the immortal seeker in a box for anyone. Seems a little foolish.

However, after typing that, perhaps Uncle Al would encourage it. Who knows? Who. knows.

 

[Xenophon]

Well I'm not saying he was the first to play with the theme of Satan, but it is my understanding that he coined the term Satanism. Do we see these groups refered to as Satanism pre-Lavey or are they called this retroactively?

At the same time the Church of Satan sees groups that actually worship Satan to be devil worshipers and not Satanists, seeing that LaVey coined it to refer to his philosophy.

Regardless, thank you for the lead, I'll be looking into this.

The word itself goes back to the 1560's, though it was used mainly as an epithet for individuals. In Le Bas at any rate, I think they refer to themselves as devil-worshippers. Przybyszewski 's followers styled themselves "Satan's Children c. 1900," but they were fairly few. Gregor Gregorius of the Fraternitas Saturni wrote Satanische Magie. BUT, you are right. Howie Levey, the ex-carnie, reinvented as Anton LaVey was the real catalyst. He could have probably copyrighted the name, had he bothered.

Post automatically merged: Jul 14, 2024

Well I'm not saying he was the first to play with the theme of Satan, but it is my understanding that he coined the term Satanism. Do we see these groups refered to as Satanism pre-Lavey or are they called this retroactively?

At the same time the Church of Satan sees groups that actually worship Satan to be devil worshipers and not Satanists, seeing that LaVey coined it to refer to his philosophy.

Regardless, thank you for the lead, I'll be looking into this.

Who has the right to use the name Satanist is a pastime for the various groups. Lavey's spawn say they were on the turf first, the Temple of Set (whatever they call themselves now...Xeper?) say yes but we have a revelation and a book dictated by Satan, JoS claims Satan talks to their leadership on a first name basis, and O9A says the rest are all a lot of wussy wannabees. Still and all, yes. LaVey was the real brand-maker. Before him Satanism scarcely existed in the sense---the senses--- it has taken on now.

Post automatically merged: Jul 14, 2024

Maybe we should be asking if someone called Crowley a Satanist would he call the accuser an idiot?

 

[Gregorius]

The word itself goes back to the 1560's, though it was used mainly as an epithet for individuals. In Le Bas at any rate, I think they refer to themselves as devil-worshippers. Przybyszewski 's followers styled themselves "Satan's Children c. 1900," but they were fairly few. Gregor Gregorius of the Fraternitas Saturni wrote Satanische Magie. BUT, you are right. Howie Levey, the ex-carnie, reinvented as Anton LaVey was the real catalyst. He could have probably copyrighted the name, had he bothered.

Post automatically merged: Jul 14, 2024

Who has the right to use the name Satanist is a pastime for the various groups. Lavey's spawn say they were on the turf first, the Temple of Set (whatever they call themselves now...Xeper?) say yes but we have a revelation and a book dictated by Satan, JoS claims Satan talks to their leadership on a first name basis, and O9A says the rest are all a lot of wussy wannabees. Still and all, yes. LaVey was the real brand-maker. Before him Satanism scarcely existed in the sense---the senses--- it has taken on now.

Post automatically merged: Jul 14, 2024

Maybe we should be asking if someone called Crowley a Satanist would he call the accuser an idiot?

in my case yes becaue it was some anti woke bs wich compared Do what thou wilt to "woke ideologies" then i did some more research if people actually think of crowley as a satanist and yes its all just trad christians who would also call all of us satanists

 

[Xenophon]

in my case yes becaue it was some anti woke bs wich compared Do what thou wilt to "woke ideologies" then i did some more research if people actually think of crowley as a satanist and yes its all just trad christians who would also call all of us satanists

I always understood "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law," as being undergirded by the old Spanish proverb, "Take what you please, senor. But remember: you must pay for everything." That being said, the anti-woke interlocutor did spot the great flaw with Thelema: it attracts wankers who see the "Law" there as license for self-indulgence. Ideally, they should be disabused of the fact by the discipline that magick requires. Whether they actually are or not is another question.

Personally, I find such a law rather childishly callow.

 

[neilwilkes]

I always understood "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law," as being undergirded by the old Spanish proverb, "Take what you please, senor. But remember: you must pay for everything." That being said, the anti-woke interlocutor did spot the great flaw with Thelema: it attracts wankers who see the "Law" there as license for self-indulgence. Ideally, they should be disabused of the fact by the discipline that magick requires. Whether they actually are or not is another question.

Personally, I find such a law rather childishly callow.

But there's a paradox here - don't tell me you can't see it!
'Do What Thou Wilt' was never meant to be taken as 'Do Whatever You Want' - it was meant to be saying that if you do your True Purpose then you are in the right at all times (because every man & every woman is a star) - the problem was always one of determining what your 'true purpose' actually is (and thereby separating it from your base desires)

 

[Xenophon]

But there's a paradox here - don't tell me you can't see it!
'Do What Thou Wilt' was never meant to be taken as 'Do Whatever You Want' - it was meant to be saying that if you do your True Purpose then you are in the right at all times (because every man & every woman is a star) - the problem was always one of determining what your 'true purpose' actually is (and thereby separating it from your base desires)

You are absolutely correct. But Crowley strikes me as very much the advertising huckster pandering his bait and switch. The "Law" is put forward in such a way as to appeal to the lowest types of humanoid. Maybe Crowley thought that such were educable ("Every man/woman is a star.") A critic might say he was out to attract sheep for financial/sexual fleecing. Like I say in another thread, the Law should maybe have been taught as the culmination to mastering the system, not its hook for getting folks in the door. But then those to whom "revelations" are divulged find it hard to contain themselves. Anton Long has some articles where he argues that receiving "revelations" and subsequent fervor are marks of magickal immaturity, not arrival.

 

[neilwilkes]

It's not the law that is the problem - it's those who deliberately mis-interpret it for their own ends who are the problem.