Did u believe any sorcerer in the bible really exist ?

[codol]

Hi guys

I don't know if someone already ask ? But I will ask do you guys in terms of magicians believe Jesus, salomon, moise was real ? Me personally I really have a doubt right now ? Because when I advance in knowledge of magic, I don't know if what they do was real, for me I guess it's only two ways, I guess they was real but the story got exaggeration, or physically they don't exist but represents the shadow or the archetype of the highest level a magician can attain
Let me know what's you thoughts and experiences you have

 

[Mannimarco]

No.
I spent decades intensively studying the Bible, and the last decade studying and practicing a whole lot of other things. I no longer believe a single word of the Bible. Even in cases where something similar might have actually happened, like a large scale flood, I think the bibles version is carefully curated to be as deceitful as possible.
F#%$ that book.

 

[jkeller293]

No.
I spent decades intensively studying the Bible, and the last decade studying and practicing a whole lot of other things. I no longer believe a single word of the Bible. Even in cases where something similar might have actually happened, like a large scale flood, I think the bibles version is carefully curated to be as deceitful as possible.
F#%$ that book.

Since you said you studied it extensively, would you say its mostly allegory or people just making up interpertations attempting to relate it to something else like for example the ark of the covenant with the kabbalistic tree of life?

Post automatically merged: Apr 15, 2025

Hi guys

I don't know if someone already ask ? But I will ask do you guys in terms of magicians believe Jesus, salomon, moise was real ? Me personally I really have a doubt right now ? Because when I advance in knowledge of magic, I don't know if what they do was real, for me I guess it's only two ways, I guess they was real but the story got exaggeration, or physically they don't exist but represents the shadow or the archetype of the highest level a magician can attain
Let me know what's you thoughts and experiences you have

Hi guys

I don't know if someone already ask ? But I will ask do you guys in terms of magicians believe Jesus, salomon, moise was real ? Me personally I really have a doubt right now ? Because when I advance in knowledge of magic, I don't know if what they do was real, for me I guess it's only two ways, I guess they was real but the story got exaggeration, or physically they don't exist but represents the shadow or the archetype of the highest level a magician can attain
Let me know what's you thoughts and experiences you have

I would say no as well, unless you want to view Jesus or Yeshua (or as some satanists call him the pale Nazarene) as a magician. I cannot fully discredit the text nor can i fully discredit any other texts. I treat all ancient texts and grimoires as hearsay — and well i have no way to confirm since im not from that time.

Post automatically merged: Apr 15, 2025

Also there was another thread were i was questioning something from a book of curses were the male witch was mentioning the use of the book of psalms for cursing. The conversation led to speaking about king solomon's association with the queen of sheba who is definitely of that culture. So its a possibility Solomon was a magician in that regard — that is, if hes even a real person to begin with.

Post automatically merged: Apr 15, 2025

Then you have Melchezdeck which certaintly may sound like a magician but to me he sounds like someone just leading a mystery rite — kind of a vague description of him in the bible.

 

[Mannimarco]

Since you said you studied it extensively, would you say its mostly allegory or people just making up interpertations attempting to relate it to something else like for example the ark of the covenant with the kabbalistic tree of life?

Neither, I'd say it's reskinned Sumerian stories, that have been designed to portray the storm/war god of a small local tribe as the creator of the universe. Who just happened to "choose" that tribe above everyone else. How fortuitous for them, and certainly not a conflict of interest.

 

[frater_pan]

Neither, I'd say it's reskinned Sumerian stories, that have been designed to portray the storm/war god of a small local tribe as the creator of the universe. Who just happened to "choose" that tribe above everyone else. How fortuitous for them, and certainly not a conflict of interest.

Wouldn't disagree - at least that your explanation is the underlying dynamic - but that would seem to only provide the basis so mostly Genesis. From Exodus 2 forward it is my personal view that Moses (an archetype to be sure - there may have been many Moses characters in different legend streams) and Aaron basically existed (their stories have some fidelity) as well as Solomon and practically all of the prophets as well as most of the stories there are embedded in. So some details may not match historically and some may be more archetypes but there appear to be one of more people upon whom these stories were laid and who form the basis of the biblical accounts.

This included Jesus who was likely a singular magician / Jewish wonder worker of what we now call ~10BC - 40AD. There is a tradition of Jewish (as well as other ethnicity) wonder workers:

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(hope this link doesn't violate a rule - I'll list them is this is an issue).

 

[Mannimarco]

Wouldn't disagree - at least that your explanation is the underlying dynamic - but that would seem to only provide the basis so mostly Genesis.

Fair, but without that underlying dynamic, the relevance of the whole story disappears, becoming the self important delusions of a tribe/family. Sure the people may have existed, but that has no actual relevance to the rest of the world. Yahweh needs to actually be the creator of the universe for the bible to mean anything to anyone not from that tribe.

Maybe jesus existed, and maybe he didn't, but I know a guy named josh too, and after he dies i could write a book claiming he was the only begotten son of god and worked miracles. (and that people had to listen to me and give me money lol)

 

[jkeller293]

and that people had to listen to me and give me money lol)

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[HoldAll]

While the Exodus most probably never happened, thus raising doubts about the very existence of Moses, and the sorcerous deeds of King Solomon aren't even in the Bible as far as I know (the oldest source for the story is the so-called "Testament of Solomon", I believe; could have been the Talmud though),

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. However, from the standpoint of religion their genuineness as historical figures doesn't matter one bit.

The other day I was reading Gershom Scholems book on Sabbatai Sevi, together with Jesus the most prominent of a

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, who both objectively failed - Jesus was executed like a common criminal as a fairly young man while Sabbatai Sevi apostatized and became a Muslim. According to Scholem, these failures necessitated a fairly complicated theology including a few glaring paradoxes to turn those defeats into victory. So Jesus was killed by the Romans at the prompting of a blood-thirsty Jewish mob (although he could have easily avoided that fate, being divine), therefore the authors of the New Testimant had to rationalize this debacle somehow and came up with the idea that Jesus died for our sins - as if he hadn't had the power of annulling them himself if he was so disposed. In Sabbatai Sevi's case, his apostasy was explained as being part of divine mystical plan as well; he had intentionally descended into the world of kliphoth to gather up the lost divine sparks there or some such thing, and Nathan of Gaza, his chief prophet and propagandist, added a few out-of-context Torah, Psalm and Talmud quotes for good measure so the whole embarrassing affair could be explained the result of divine providence.

People believe whatever they want to believe, no matter how far-fetched. If they want to believe that some failed Middle Easter preacher was their saviour, they'll find a rationale for it; if they want to believe that a bipolar apostatized rabbi from Smyrna was their messiah, they'll find sufficient justification in their 'holy books' too.

 

[MidnightProphet]

Since you said you studied it extensively, would you say its mostly allegory or people just making up interpertations attempting to relate it to something else like for example the ark of the covenant with the kabbalistic tree of life?

Post automatically merged: Apr 15, 2025

I would say no as well, unless you want to view Jesus or Yeshua (or as some satanists call him the pale Nazarene) as a magician. I cannot fully discredit the text nor can i fully discredit any other texts. I treat all ancient texts and grimoires as hearsay — and well i have no way to confirm since im not from that time.

Post automatically merged: Apr 15, 2025

Also there was another thread were i was questioning something from a book of curses were the male witch was mentioning the use of the book of psalms for cursing. The conversation led to speaking about king solomon's association with the queen of sheba who is definitely of that culture. So its a possibility Solomon was a magician in that regard — that is, if hes even a real person to begin with.

Post automatically merged: Apr 15, 2025

Then you have Melchezdeck which certaintly may sound like a magician but to me he sounds like someone just leading a mystery rite — kind of a vague description of him in the bible.

Ah, yes. Melchizedek. What is interesting about this figure is that he was a priest-king. He was delivered tribute by other priests of the nation, which would have placed his priesthood even above that of Aaron (Levitical). Tributes were one tenth of the spoils of conquest for every other leader in the nation, which was more than was required by the Levite priesthood. It is also possible that Melchizedek was blessing tribes before war and perhaps even funding them. Lots of fun speculation here.

Post automatically merged: Wednesday at 6:09 PM

My interpretation of the Bible is that those that have a fundamental belief in it fundamentally misunderstand its meaning. To be absolutely clear, on the words of the kabbalists, the Torah is not a historic account of anything. While it does describe some real events (and some not real events), it is a language of branches that has roots in an upper reality. It is not meant to be interpreted literally. Another point is that it is not written in chronological order. It is compiled into three main sections, those being the books of Moses (Chumash,) the writings of the Prophets (Neviim,) and the wisdom and ethical teachings of the "The Writings," (Kesuvim.) The books in these sections also are not in any chronological order from beginning to end, though some books do create a timeline. The main problems with the Bible are that:

1. The prophecies contained within it are drawn from earlier prophecies of many and varied origin within the middle east and the orient.
2. The writings are not in chronological order.
3. The writings are not literal.
4. The "New Testament" describes the Torah in a new language using chronology from the passing of one age of devotion to another, adding another layer of arrogance and misunderstanding.
5. The Bible as a whole attempts to validate itself by only pointing to proving things that happened within the Bible, without respect to anything outside of the Bible. And yes, there was an entire world outside of Egypt and "Israel" at the time. Also, the Judeans and the Israelites are two very different people.

In short, my opinion on this work is that it is one of the most abused, fundamentally misunderstood (and therefore dangerous) books ever written. It has the power to make a person be what they already are, for better or for worse, sending them either into enlightenment if they understand, or total oblivion of the soul if they do not.

 

[Flandre]

I tend to read the Bible in a rather symbolic way. I don't know whether Moses was ever an incarnate person; what matters to me is what I get out of that story, just like the overt parables of the New Testament. I kept hearing about inaccuracies and things getting lost in translation within the Bible so much that I am currently learning Hebrew (and after that Aramaic. slow as it may be) to be able to read those texts with hopefully a bit more accuracy.

Now, I do believe Jesus was likely a real person, one of the greatest incarnate magicians. However, even if one day it was somehow proven that He did not exist as an incarnate human, the archetype behind the role He played would not diminish - that one is pretty universal and present in other mysteries too, be it Egyptian, Greek...