[Help] Discovery vs Creation

[Leviathan]

As the title says, are we discovering existing wells of magic through our research, studies, and experiments, or have we created it through the will of our shared consciousness? Is it even possible to determine one from the other?

 

[Robert Ramsay]

As the title says, are we discovering existing wells of magic through our research, studies, and experiments, or have we created it through the will of our shared consciousness? Is it even possible to determine one from the other?

Thirty years of research have showed me that magic is an edge condition of normal human consciousness. A bit like an exploit in a video game (although I am definitely NOT suggesting the universe is a video game). The ability was there all along, but it's not the way we normally use consciousness.

 

[Leviathan]

Thirty years of research have showed me that magic is an edge condition of normal human consciousness. A bit like an exploit in a video game (although I am definitely NOT suggesting the universe is a video game). The ability was there all along, but it's not the way we normally use consciousness.

Thank you for sharing your experiences, with this edge condition, does it feel to you more like a raw ability to be shaped, or that there were always existing guidelines to be discovered and worked within or around?

 

[Robert Ramsay]

Thank you for sharing your experiences, with this edge condition, does it feel to you more like a raw ability to be shaped, or that there were always existing guidelines to be discovered and worked within or around?

There are certainly boundaries. They're normally referred to as 'the laws of physics' This includes limits on what you are likely to be able to achieve. Winning the lottery is a chance of millions to one, and using magic, it's still like trying to land a Jumbo Jet on a coin.

Within those limits though, the only thing that can stop you are any limitations you impose on yourself.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: [Help] Discovery vs Creation
SUBTOPIC: Responses
※→ Leviathan, Robert Ramsay, et al,

(ABYSS)

EXTERNAL SOURCES

• The Consciousness Research Laboratory of Palo Alto (CRL-PA)
• The Society for Psychical Research (SPR)

Is there a general theory of "Consciousness" (scientific or spiritual) that is accepted in large portions by the scientific and theological communities? The intangible characteristic of "Consciousness" is such that any attempt to define it will fall prey to criticisms by large segments of the scientific, technical, and theological communities. It then becomes necessary to associate a temporary assignment:

no•et•ic sci•ences: A multidisciplinary field that brings objective scientific tools and techniques together with subjective inner knowing to study the full range of human experience. In other words, there are several ways we can know the world around us.
SOURCE:

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Posted May 10, 2011 | Reviewed by Ekua Hagan

As the title says, are we discovering existing wells of magic through our research, studies, and experiments, or have we created it through the will of our shared consciousness? Is it even possible to determine one from the other?

(COMMENT)

Anyone who reads this contribution has to have "Consciousness" which includes some measure of "Sentience."

There is no evidence or craft-specific detectable components that can be assembled in such a way as to observe a "well," "reservoir," or a "stream" of a flow of energy that can be labeled as magic.

Thirty years of research have showed me that magic is an edge condition of normal human consciousness. A bit like an exploit in a video game (although I am definitely NOT suggesting the universe is a video game). The ability was there all along, but it's not the way we normally use consciousness.

(COMMENT)

Again, what is "normal human consciousness? " Who has established the parameters and characteristics for "normal human consciousness?"

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Leviathan]

RE: [Help] Discovery vs Creation
SUBTOPIC: Responses
※→ Leviathan, Robert Ramsay, et al,

(ABYSS)

EXTERNAL SOURCES

• The Consciousness Research Laboratory of Palo Alto (CRL-PA)
• The Society for Psychical Research (SPR)

Is there a general theory of "Consciousness" (scientific or spiritual) that is accepted in large portions by the scientific and theological communities? The intangible characteristic of "Consciousness" is such that any attempt to define it will fall prey to criticisms by large segments of the scientific, technical, and theological communities. It then becomes necessary to associate a temporary assignment:




(COMMENT)

Anyone who reads this contribution has to have "Consciousness" which includes some measure of "Sentience."

There is no evidence or craft-specific detectable components that can be assembled in such a way as to observe a "well," "reservoir," or a "stream" of a flow of energy that can be labeled as magic.



(COMMENT)

Again, what is "normal human consciousness? " Who has established the parameters and characteristics for "normal human consciousness?"

Most Respectfully,
R

Thank you for your reply and sources! I use the term "well" as a term for a base source, as something cannot come from nothing, at least as far as my understanding goes. As for consciousness in this particular question, I think something along the lines of "will or intention put towards a similar or shared goal" as my meaning, although clearly what exactly the human consciousness is is a subject that we still have much to learn on.

 

[Robert Ramsay]

RE: [Help] Discovery vs Creation
SUBTOPIC: Responses
※→ Leviathan, Robert Ramsay, et al,

(ABYSS)

EXTERNAL SOURCES

• The Consciousness Research Laboratory of Palo Alto (CRL-PA)
• The Society for Psychical Research (SPR)

Is there a general theory of "Consciousness" (scientific or spiritual) that is accepted in large portions by the scientific and theological communities?

Don't know about the theological communities, but no, there are some interesting models of consciousness, but if anyone had a working general theory, I'm sure I would have read about it in New Scientist

There is no evidence or craft-specific detectable components that can be assembled in such a way as to observe a "well," "reservoir," or a "stream" of a flow of energy that can be labeled as magic.

That's because that's not what magic is. You can go a long way in magic by having that as your model, but all magical systems are models. Including mine The only difference is that mine is compatible with our most successful scientific theories.

Again, what is "normal human consciousness? " Who has established the parameters and characteristics for "normal human consciousness?"

I mean what people experience as they go about their daily lives. I suppose I only say 'normal' to differentiate from the kind of experiences that magic induces. It's like St. Augustine talking about time: "What then is time? If no one asks me, I know what it is. If I wish to explain it to him who asks, I do not know."