Disrespect?

[Xenophon]

I was warned in another forum today that the phrase, "With all due respect..." is itself "disrespectful and judgmental." Odd, given that not 24 hours ago I heard it used in a Zoom meeting and no one cringed, broke into tears, or showed other signs of trauma. I am a native speaker of English---albeit one 20 years resident in East Asia. What is youse guys take on the phrase? Does it convey simple disagreement, or am I a neo-Nazi hate-speechifier?

 

[Xenophon]

Is the phrase "With all due respect..." itself "judgmental and disrespectful?" So I was warned in another forum. Heck, I heard it used not 24 hours ago in a Zoom meeting and no one cringed, broke into tears, or showed other signs of emotional trauma. I am a native English speaker (albeit 20+ years resident in Asia.) Is the locution a way to voice simple disagreement, or am I a neo-Nazi hate-speechifier?

Post automatically merged: Aug 17, 2023

Sorry---double post

 

[HoldAll]

I think you can overdo sensitivity in verbal communication; overly sensitive souls should not particate in an argument. Nevertheless,. "With all due respect" may come on as a bit condescending. Then again, it may be also be a good way to calm the waters when a debate becomes overheated. It all depends on the context. Maybe that phrase was a pet peeve for the other person - or a ploy to gain the moral high ground in the discussion, that's another possibility. Personally, I don't find it offensive but will lose my marbles if someone addresses me as "my friend" because that's MY rhetorical pet peeve.

 

[8Lou1]

often people take it like this: if you have to mention it, youre doing it wrong. so you might think you were giving respect were it was due, but in essence it were just empty words. why did noone get offended in a zoom meeting. well thats simple, there we know its just a saying, we can hear it in your voice. and since most of the time the phrase is used without giving it the proper meaning, it has become disrespectful.

its like this: with all due respect im now going to rat on an other forum about a discussion and im already stating i know the language and they are dumb for not understanding cause in a zoom meeting i didnt notice the same reaction and those people know stuff cause they can zoom.

see how that reads a little nasty?

 

[stalkinghyena]

With regards to the phrase "With all due respect" as being essentially a claymore mine, I can add that in my experience in the military it only ever had the exact opposite effect of what was intended. Maybe this has bled over, but I think some people feel it is preparation for an uncomfortable remark. I think this had a lot to do with it's use in dramatic military movie depictions usurping actual "customs and courtesies" as defined and accepted by our training and conduct.

Case in point: I was travelling on a bus of Marines, listening to a Private First Class toward the back talking and joking about life with a couple of Corporals. One of the Cpls had made a friendly teasing remark to the PFC that brought general laughter, through which he responded, humorously, "With all due respect, Cpl, shut the hell up.!"
The sudden snap and turn of his superiors was typical - laughter immediately switched to barking disciplinary shouts in which other superiors joined in and cut the PFC down to the momentary status of recruit. He protested that he meant no disrespect, hence his phrase, but was informed harshly that the phrase had no meaning in the real military and that he was NEVER to use it again.

Incidentally, another dramatically abused phrase in this context, "Permission to speak freely" also is a damned expression of reverse value. However, the stern answer would typically be, "No you may not. There is no such thing as 'speaking freely'."

 

[Xenophon]

I think you can overdo sensitivity in verbal communication; overly sensitive souls should not particate in an argument. Nevertheless,. "With all due respect" may come on as a bit condescending. Then again, it may be also be a good way to calm the waters when a debate becomes overheated. It all depends on the context. Maybe that phrase was a pet peeve for the other person - or a ploy to gain the moral high ground in the discussion, that's another possibility. Personally, I don't find it offensive but will lose my marbles if someone addresses me as "my friend" because that's MY rhetorical pet peeve.

"My friend"---at least in English---does come off as a bit presumptuous.

Post automatically merged: Aug 19, 2023

often people take it like this: if you have to mention it, youre doing it wrong. so you might think you were giving respect were it was due, but in essence it were just empty words. why did noone get offended in a zoom meeting. well thats simple, there we know its just a saying, we can hear it in your voice. and since most of the time the phrase is used without giving it the proper meaning, it has become disrespectful.

its like this: with all due respect im now going to rat on an other forum about a discussion and im already stating i know the language and they are dumb for not understanding cause in a zoom meeting i didnt notice the same reaction and those people know stuff cause they can zoom.

see how that reads a little nasty?

Well yeah, but that's because of the shift in tone from "With all due respect" to "rat," "dumb" etc. You leap from civil to snarky. Your rejoinder here is very much on the order of a straw man.

Post automatically merged: Aug 19, 2023

With regards to the phrase "With all due respect" as being essentially a claymore mine, I can add that in my experience in the military it only ever had the exact opposite effect of what was intended. Maybe this has bled over, but I think some people feel it is preparation for an uncomfortable remark. I think this had a lot to do with it's use in dramatic military movie depictions usurping actual "customs and courtesies" as defined and accepted by our training and conduct.

Case in point: I was travelling on a bus of Marines, listening to a Private First Class toward the back talking and joking about life with a couple of Corporals. One of the Cpls had made a friendly teasing remark to the PFC that brought general laughter, through which he responded, humorously, "With all due respect, Cpl, shut the hell up.!"
The sudden snap and turn of his superiors was typical - laughter immediately switched to barking disciplinary shouts in which other superiors joined in and cut the PFC down to the momentary status of recruit. He protested that he meant no disrespect, hence his phrase, but was informed harshly that the phrase had no meaning in the real military and that he was NEVER to use it again.

Incidentally, another dramatically abused phrase in this context, "Permission to speak freely" also is a damned expression of reverse value. However, the stern answer would typically be, "No you may not. There is no such thing as 'speaking freely'."

So...8Lou1 above was a PFC in the Marines?

 

[stalkinghyena]

So...8Lou1 above was a PFC in the Marines?

That bad, huh?

 

[8Lou1]

yeah i was and then some. you know i like this topic cause noone declared what is respect and where and how is a lot or too little.
anyways, a rat is an animal and i dont see the disrespect i found it qute the respect to get help from usa military. others didnt even respond or reach out.

so speaking truth has been one form of respect that makes scrambled eggs and if you know a pfc, you better not be one. anyways, spiritual warfare should have its own zone, instead of trying to kill this forum over and over again.

so again with all do respect: is a pfc worth more then the housewife he/she/it is supposed to protect? is it that bad in the usa? here we just throw with everything and everybody, noone cares. just yah average dutch respect for nothing but business.

so mr. this is respect in a zoom meeting, now you also know this is respect while talking on a wizardforum. as you can see its a bit different, but sadly the eu didnt have time to go over to usa to create the right iso certificate for this thing called doing the nasty and reading between the lines.

cool topic btw see if i can get offended somewhere i like it. no disrespect. pretty cool idea.

 

[Xenophon]

yeah i was and then some. you know i like this topic cause noone declared what is respect and where and how is a lot or too little.
anyways, a rat is an animal and i dont see the disrespect i found it qute the respect to get help from usa military. others didnt even respond or reach out.

so speaking truth has been one form of respect that makes scrambled eggs and if you know a pfc, you better not be one. anyways, spiritual warfare should have its own zone, instead of trying to kill this forum over and over again.

so again with all do respect: is a pfc worth more then the housewife he/she/it is supposed to protect? is it that bad in the usa? here we just throw with everything and everybody, noone cares. just yah average dutch respect for nothing but business.

so mr. this is respect in a zoom meeting, now you also know this is respect while talking on a wizardforum. as you can see its a bit different, but sadly the eu didnt have time to go over to usa to create the right iso certificate for this thing called doing the nasty and reading between the lines.

cool topic btw see if i can get offended somewhere i like it. no disrespect. pretty cool idea.

Everyone claims to want respect, but no one defines it---you got that right. It's a whole lot more sadistic fun to keep the rules of respect secret, then ambush those ignorant of the law they just trod upon. I think what a fairly wide stratum of people want it to take offense, not receive respect. "It's sweet to take offense," as (I think) one of the Karmazov brothers sneered.

 

[8Lou1]

of course they dont define it, to bring it out is to lie. but we have sayings of remembrance and pathworkings to show and teach.
when i first came on this site sante muerte was quite active and we had several conversations. and since she is a good friend of mine i showed her how to do it on islam and she helped me with the passing away of my forebearers. i gave her the spot of frau holda and served her dinner.

 

[Xenophon]

My point with "define" would have been better served had I said that, without shared and tacit ground rules of what is and is not seemly, offenses are bound to come. Most folks learn to make allowances. (I have lived in China for 20+years. I have learned that a lot of Chinese who speak English use "must" where "should" is more fitting. It were infantile to bristle back with, "Don't tell me what to do!") On the other hand, it is a popular...what to call it? A "language game" in our culture? It is a popular verbal sport of late to take offense at others for not---in effect---reading one's mind. There's no way to know what will set someone off without some living cheek by jowl.

 

[8Lou1]

Ah, so you are looking for the border of linguistical fun. im warned twice so it seems i do not really know or care. but in essence im looking for the same thing. where is something normal to me suddenly 'bad' and or offensive. i know some things by now. for example coming on wf asking for love and lust spells cause i need chicks is a no go. i often still reply cause these people just need a nudge and calm down. im not easily offended, but this is a website so there needs to be readable stuff.

other things to consider is, does your 'country' mind if you are interested in magick. if so, one might write quite different. or not at all. i got friends who dont speak english, so they ask me. and since i have clearly stated who i am online, i also get spirits or people who like to scramble. some take offense others hate my guts and make it look like im crazy or simply the holy spirit runs tru my vains. people dont like reading in such a manner. but its fun to do. and since im ordered to learn to have fun in life im doing that in the lounge. here on wf we are kind enough to redirect when they get to know you. its also important because theres a difference between an internet troll and esoteric trolldom.

i think reading sarcasm in texts is mostly human pain and in the readers eyes. i for myself rather have that then people hiding behind studies and miles of texts, but everyone is different.

i think denying someones truth is really disrespectful. forcing someone to follow a certain a pradigm for fun (often a nasty vampire trait) is not cool and can ruin lives, so thats more then disrespectful. but those are all my versions, not wizardforums versions.

maybe we can do a 'karen' run in the lounge and have some fun testing what is respect and where is the game. i like broader borders...

 

[Xenophon]

The "Karen run" sounds intriguing, but how to do that?

Having one's truth denied can be painful, too. I thought I was a badass when I was 18 and freshly in uniform. A brother from Newark showed me how widely some "truths" can diverge from reality. A highly ad hoc guru, he.

 

[8Lou1]

life is easy when you have brothers and colleagues and then one day the captain of the ship dies and youre left with a mess. mutiny all over the place and no real leader popping up. yeah well 1 dude, but his ideas need the destruction and reordering of humanity. i didnt agree, they left me one place: no. as i already knew and did. so in essence god and then gods are to blame. i got so angry i left this universe and went to the anticosmic gods and asked what the fuck they were doing on earth, cause the one is the one to everyone. i ordered them to come have a look at what their followers are doing and they decided i need new spirits and people.

for a karen run you need lots of ougry eyes, they are similar to the evil eye, but with the twist that they make people become karens and nags. its a form of jealousy that finds little pains to tickle a joy. doing a karen run is done best in public. the easiest way here is still having loud fun, and with loud i dont mean yelling, but normal fun and joy with loved ones that make them feel its loud.

so do such a thing and notice how the energy changes and karens rise and pull, then if you kept the good flow without having sudden changes in mood towards your loved ones, you won the karen run. otherwise recentre cause smudging doesnt help you with this, knowing who you are and dealing with nasty emotions is whats next.

thats how you do a karen run.