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People have alotta diverse opinions about them. There true nature is not agreed upon. Some people say its about growing up and being forced to get serious about life. Other people say it's just flat out malefic that if not dignified or well placed can have devastating effects. I personally don't see why it can't be both though that doesn't really say much as far explaining how they work. I've heard everything from a time immense spiritual transformation, lives just completely falling apart, to people straight up dying around them! What is clear too me though is that Western Astrology is straight up gaslighting itself about negative positions within astrology as well the people in proports to want to help. The experiences of people with certain positions or common transits like this are straight up ignored by astrologers if they don't conform to that astrologers narrow view of how they interpret it rather than it being what is described. That never fails to amaze as astrology was originally conceived to help people not preach to them. Anyway I guess I just would like to better understand this transit if there are any other astrology fans in the forum who have studied it along with just hearing everyone's general opinions.
I am no astrologer. But. When you look for example at what Agrippa writes about the square (and powers) of Saturn, it's clear that with enough imagination / creativity every planet can be used in one way or another to do anything that the other planets rule.
Although it is said of Saturn that he spoils everything when in conjunction, Jupiter can overturn it. Venus will soften him, and the Sun rules over all. Astrology can be useful but as with everything, it's a topic to create hype
Oh yeah it's very polarizing. It's so bad I can't have objective conversations about it in western astrological forums without people falling back on psychological isms like, there are no bad positions or transits, or it's all about perspective. Yet people commit more murders on full moons, which is pretty well known, and I've noticed people get into more car accidents during mercury retrogrades along with other stuff going haywire. It just baffles my mind tbh.
Agrippa was very old school about alotta things lol being one of the old school. He didn't know it I think, but alot of what he was writing about when it came to rituals, were the broken down remnants of ancient roman religion. Joseph Peterson further proved that in his book The Secrets of Solomon: A Witch's Handbook in which he found evidence of Orphic Practices that had found there way into the venetian republic shortly before or after the fall of Constantinople. Most people in Astrological Forums do not read his books as they aren't strictly Astrological but what he was saying pretty much lines up with Ptolemy millennia earlier.
Now I'm inclined to agree with both vs most of what is written today, but in the 20the century, people decided it was not positive or productive to view traditional negative house positions or transits as negative. This view permeates everything today and prevents any kind of deeper debate on what actually happens happens to people. Astrologers say one thing, the books another, the person with the actual position/transit gives their actual lived experience... and no mutually agreed conclusion is reached. Just more confusion.
Modern opinions about saturn returns are modern. To begin with I don't know any traditional astrologer that dealt with "saturn returns" as a technique on their own - it doesn't make sense to divide lives into periods that long.
However, we do have testimonies of Saturn returning to the place he was in one's natal chart, to be considered with other predictive techniques, and they're far less bad as nowadays people pretend it to be. For example, this is from book III of Christian Astrology, by William Lilly:
"If Saturn in a Revolution returne to his owne place of the Radix and be well affected, he portends dignity unto the Native; it shall be the greater, if he be in the mid-heaven; he shall also attaine store of Substance, and happily some Inheritance."
Not gloomy in the slightest, right?
Obviously this is just too generic. It would be best to judge each case by itself. If that Saturn was promising something good in one's natal chart - it can happen by the time Saturn returns to that place, considering there's enough arguments everywhere else to augur that.
I have been contemplating how this all works for quite a long time. In the past few years I began to experiment a bit, especially with Saturn. First, really drill down into how Saturn works in your chart. Look up as many sources as you can if you're not experienced. Look at sign placement of course, but also aspects, and ruler. All of those things will give you more ideas. But you must choose the meanings that you actually experience because they will not all fit. Then, take that information into your ritual space. Use the solomonic pentacles if that is applicable. Do petitions. The negative effects of Saturn can be worked upon. I work with the planetary archangels and I do my version of planetary prayers for each day of the week. So, to get back to your Saturn return, this is the perfect time to understand it at a much deeper level and utilize it in your practice.
However, we do have testimonies of Saturn returning to the place he was in one's natal chart, to be considered with other predictive techniques, and they're far less bad as nowadays people pretend it to be. For example, this is from book III of Christian Astrology, by William Lilly:
"If Saturn in a Revolution returne to his owne place of the Radix and be well affected, he portends dignity unto the Native; it shall be the greater, if he be in the mid-heaven; he shall also attaine store of Substance, and happily some Inheritance."
Not gloomy in the slightest, right?
Obviously this is just too generic. It would be best to judge each case by itself. If that Saturn was promising something good in one's natal chart - it can happen by the time Saturn returns to that place, considering there's enough arguments everywhere else to augur that.
That's a big if though. Most of the people have their Saturn in signs or houses that are not so favorable. That could be explained though by the people who experience negative experience speaking up more, whereas someone who has a comparatively more benefic chart, might not report at all because their life just always runs smoothly. Like a person so wealthy the only thing they can say is...
So yeah the reporting might be a bit biased. However if you look at astrology in all it's forms less like a system to analyze life and predict likely circumstance vs say more like a medical system where the people coming forward most are in suffering due to some malady suddenly all the naysaying will make sense. A healthy person is not gonna come forward to complain, because their systems are already in balance, a diseased person is more likely to complain on the other hand because they are suffering from a distinct lack of balance. So any negative feedback imo is better viewed with intense observation rather than outright dismissed, because it might just be a sign, like a canary in the Cole Mine. Unless modern astrologers (that's who my gripe is with not traditional systems) look at it like a cancer diagnosis where it's terminal so there isn't any point in trying to help at all.
I have been contemplating how this all works for quite a long time. In the past few years I began to experiment a bit, especially with Saturn. First, really drill down into how Saturn works in your chart. Look up as many sources as you can if you're not experienced. Look at sign placement of course, but also aspects, and ruler. All of those things will give you more ideas. But you must choose the meanings that you actually experience because they will not all fit. Then, take that information into your ritual space. Use the solomonic pentacles if that is applicable. Do petitions. The negative effects of Saturn can be worked upon. I work with the planetary archangels and I do my version of planetary prayers for each day of the week. So, to get back to your Saturn return, this is the perfect time to understand it at a much deeper level and utilize it in your practice.
That's basically the same approach Vedic or even Chinese Astrology takes. Using things mantras, crystals, devotional practices, religious pilgrimages, Feng shui, acupuncture, Chinese Traditional Medicine, or Ayurvedic Medicine to combat the effects of badly placed charts that cause various issues in the persons life or bodies.
The Greeks were doing something similar for example with Hippocrates "Humorism" and with such texts of his such as The Book of Hippocrates. There is some evidence that they may have gotten this from the Egyptians and Babylonians who in turn probably got it from the Sumerians who were all in contact with various Asian Civilizations since the Bronze Age.
It's not clear where the theory's originated from first, but what is clear, is that the remedies for such problems were more or less agreed that a spiritual approach was best (as above so below kinda thing). I'm not sure why it's taken Modern Western Astrology so long to finally realize... "maybe they were on to something"... You think? Because everyone back in the day was as dumb as a box of rocks.. it has to be the case right?
Because everyone back in the day was as dumb as a box of rocks.. it has to be the case right? 