[Opinion] Giles de Rais and his demonologist

[Koldo]

Good evening:

Today we are cracking open a really cold serial murder case. How cold you ask? Medieval France cold, which is frigid.

So, Giles de Rais had the help of a magician/demonologist called Francois Prelati in his escapades, who supposedly could contact a demon called Barron. Given that the internet is full of information related to Giles de Rais and Barron is such a common name I have been unable to find much farther information on Barron.

So the questions to answer are the following.

1) Do you believe that Francois Prelati was a real conjurer with access to a real working grimoire (think medieval Stephen Skinner with serial killer vibes) or a charlatan?

2)Related to the above, do you think the demon Barron was real, or just a convenient lie by Francois to take more money from a deranged nobleman? If so, elaborate.

 

[Yazata]

I remember seeing (long ago somewhere) a drawing from an old grimoire of the demon Barron, so I know that there definitely is an old book of / with him. Only remember it because the name at that time was relevant to me and it was a fun synchronicity. I'm trying to find the grimoire but have no idea what it was (thinking about Faust but that wasn't it). Through summoning the Angel of search-results I was able to locate this:

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[silencewaits]

"Moreover, the said Gilles said and confessed that a year and a half ago the said Milord Eustache Blanchet brought to the said Gilles, the accused, from Florence, in Lombardy, the said Master Francois Prelati, with the intention of practicing the Invocation of demons; and that the said Francois told him that in the country he came from he had found the means by which to conjure a spirit who promised this same Francois that he himself could conjure a certain demon who called himself Barron as many times as the same Francois wanted."
...
"Item, the said Gilles, the accused, stated and confessed that in order to perform the said invocations they traced signs in the form of a circle or of a cross, and of characters in the earth; and that the said Francois possessed a book that he had brought from Italy, so he said, in which there were the names of many demons and words to conjure and invoke them by, which names and which words he does not remember; which book the said Francois held and read for nearly two hours during the said conjurations and invocations; and that he, the accused, during none of these Invocations saw or perceived any devil to speak to, which greatly irritated and disappointed him."
...
"Item, the same Gilles de Rais, the accused, stated and confessed that at one of the three invocations he attended, the said Francois related to the said accused how he himself had seen the demon named Barron, who had shown him a large quantity of gold, and among other things a gold Ingot; but the said accused declared that he did not see the devil or the ingot but only a sort of foil in the form of a sheet or sheets of gold, which he did not touch."

There is a lot of information in the report of his confession to the ecclesiastical court. I do believe the information is accurate, because Gilles de Rais was a coward and there are corroborating witness statements. He held back on giving up his 'immortal soul' during his magical escapades, and when faced with excommunication from the Church he relented on his assertion that he would rather die than accept the truth of the accusations. He made a private confession in order to be reinstated and was subsequently turned over to the secular court. The confession was used in his secular trial. They, sadly, only hanged him. He deserved a much more inspired fate. He did not only employ Prelati for conjurations, and his depredations were not a result of his attempt to contact this 'Barron', or for magical purposes at all. He was simply a vile man who deserves no pity or recourse. One theory a contemporary had as to why his conjurations failed, was that, "if Gilles de Rais did not turn his soul away from the Church and his chapel, he would never accomplish what he desired".

 

[Koldo]

I remember seeing (long ago somewhere) a drawing from an old grimoire of the demon Barron, so I know that there definitely is an old book of / with him. Only remember it because the name at that time was relevant to me and it was a fun synchronicity. I'm trying to find the grimoire but have no idea what it was (thinking about Faust but that wasn't it). Through summoning the Angel of search-results I was able to locate this:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

That does seem like compelling evidence that the grimoire he used was real, or at least that it had taken from a real one, so I guess that answers the question of wether Francois Prelati was an actual conjurer. He at least had a real grimoire (though it could be missing a lot of useful information, which would explain why his evocations would fail later on).

Post automatically merged: Apr 6, 2025

"Moreover, the said Gilles said and confessed that a year and a half ago the said Milord Eustache Blanchet brought to the said Gilles, the accused, from Florence, in Lombardy, the said Master Francois Prelati, with the intention of practicing the Invocation of demons; and that the said Francois told him that in the country he came from he had found the means by which to conjure a spirit who promised this same Francois that he himself could conjure a certain demon who called himself Barron as many times as the same Francois wanted."
...
"Item, the said Gilles, the accused, stated and confessed that in order to perform the said invocations they traced signs in the form of a circle or of a cross, and of characters in the earth; and that the said Francois possessed a book that he had brought from Italy, so he said, in which there were the names of many demons and words to conjure and invoke them by, which names and which words he does not remember; which book the said Francois held and read for nearly two hours during the said conjurations and invocations; and that he, the accused, during none of these Invocations saw or perceived any devil to speak to, which greatly irritated and disappointed him."
...
"Item, the same Gilles de Rais, the accused, stated and confessed that at one of the three invocations he attended, the said Francois related to the said accused how he himself had seen the demon named Barron, who had shown him a large quantity of gold, and among other things a gold Ingot; but the said accused declared that he did not see the devil or the ingot but only a sort of foil in the form of a sheet or sheets of gold, which he did not touch."

There is a lot of information in the report of his confession to the ecclesiastical court. I do believe the information is accurate, because Gilles de Rais was a coward and there are corroborating witness statements. He held back on giving up his 'immortal soul' during his magical escapades, and when faced with excommunication from the Church he relented on his assertion that he would rather die than accept the truth of the accusations. He made a private confession in order to be reinstated and was subsequently turned over to the secular court. The confession was used in his secular trial. They, sadly, only hanged him. He deserved a much more inspired fate. He did not only employ Prelati for conjurations, and his depredations were not a result of his attempt to contact this 'Barron', or for magical purposes at all. He was simply a vile man who deserves no pity or recourse. One theory a contemporary had as to why his conjurations failed, was that, "if Gilles de Rais did not turn his soul away from the Church and his chapel, he would never accomplish what he desired".

So he acquired said grimoire from Italy then. I don't believe neccesarily that Giles de Rais was unabke to make a conjuration work because he did not offer his soul, I don't know of any serious grimoire where this is a requirement to evoke a spirit. It probably had more to do with the vrimoire being incomplete, as in lacking information about the proper day and hour to do a conjuration, or a bad translation regarding incense or such. Seems more plausible to me.

As for Giles de Rais being an absolute monster, yes, I agree, that man must be burning in hell now. Reading about what he did to children does ruin your day.

 

[silencewaits]

So he acquired said grimoire from Italy then. I don't believe neccesarily that Giles de Rais was unabke to make a conjuration work because he did not offer his soul, I don't know of any serious grimoire where this is a requirement to evoke a spirit. It probably had more to do with the vrimoire being incomplete, as in lacking information about the proper day and hour to do a conjuration, or a bad translation regarding incense or such. Seems more plausible to me.

Prelati is unreliable. There's evidence to suggest he's a charlatan. But the woman who told him he wasn't getting what he wanted because he couldn't turn away hit the nail on the head.

"Item, the said Gilles de Rais, the accused, stated and confessed that he sent the said Gilles de Sillé into a region farther north, to find conjurors of demons or evil spirits. Which Gilles de Sillé, having returned, told him that he had found a woman who busied herself with like invocations: which woman had said to Sillé that if Gilles de Rais did not turn his soul away from the Church and his chapel, he would never accomplish what he desired; and that Sillé had met In the same region another woman who told him that if the said accused did not abandon a work begun by him or that he intended to pursue, or have it stopped, nothing good would ever come to him."