Giving Up Ego?

[Xenophon]

I guess if Self Deification is an LHP thread, this should go in RHP?

Anyhow, is giving up the ego really such a desideratum? Creeds of humility/ humanitarian service seem nearly as checkered in their works as egotistical ones. Christianity is an enabling mechanism for overpopulous mediocracy, Marxism (one Judeo-Christian shadow-successor) was bloodier than Moloch, humanism breeds up teeming masses ungovernable by weight of their egalitarian impertinence. The best that can be said for Buddhism is that it tries to be harmless. To complete this over-generalization, compassion seems as likely to fall prey to unintended consequences as sheer Ragnarork Redbeard Realpolitik. Worse, the former suffers from a snootily self-righteous mindset. So maybe go slow checking your ego there at the door.

 

[Lazarus]

Giving up the ego isn’t the point. The point is total reabsorption with the source. Losing the ego is a by-product of that process. I’m speaking of course about the full circuit of involution and evolution, which transcends Malkuthian paradigms.

The purpose of giving up the ego here on earth while incarnate is to perfect the conduit. “Thy will be done” and all that jazz.

 

[IllusiveOwl]

What makes the ego? Your skin color? The line of people born before you? The location you were born into? The culture and norms of the place? The fascinations, revulsions, phobias and fetishes you've accumulated over your lifetime while operating with this pre-ordained identity?

None of these things are chosen by us, they're like an iron cast we're born into that shapes us, but none of the things listed above have anything to actually do with who you are, yet they drive your decisions, views, reactions, etc.

I see ego-disillusion as removing everything from you that is not you so that you may recreate yourself in full sober awareness. Most terrible desires and impulses are rooted in egoic desire and craving too, so when the ego is transcended, the liberated soul is naturally more graceful.

I see it as throwing off the chains of pre-determinism and fate to become who you truly are, not who you were born as.

 

[Wintruz]

Giving up the ego isn’t the point. The point is total reabsorption with the source. Losing the ego is a by-product of that process. I’m speaking of course about the full circuit of involution and evolution, which transcends Malkuthian paradigms.

The purpose of giving up the ego here on earth while incarnate is to perfect the conduit. “Thy will be done” and all that jazz.

What I find interesting about this is the mysticisation of the central tenet of Original Sin; that there is something about the "natural" state of the human which must be transcended before the human can be what they ideally should be, which, actually, is to not be at all. Equally, it could be argued that Augustine took insights from late Neoplatonism and "earthed" them so that they'd be easier to understand by the, generally, illiterate followers of early Christianity. Still, the persistence of the basic idea is interesting as is the associated idea of "reabsorption with the source".

I'd have thought a kinder way to attain this (and "the source" is all about kindness I'm told) would be to help oneself to a big spoon of cyanide rather than willing oneself to not exist, daily, across the span of an entire lifetime.

It ain't for me. I do not take the unrefined human as s/he is. There are always inherited dispositions and socially transmitted diseases which need undoing, but that undoing occurs precisely so that the person can truly be themselves. In other words, the Work is the alignment of ego (in the sense of rationally apprehended "I") with the Essence (the hidden and eternal part of the Self) in a harmonious, independent whole. If the source doesn't like that, if non-existence is preferred to fully realised existence, we're not going to get along.

 

[Roma]

Using "ego" to refer to a personality-level energy (rather than Neshama) it is useful to recall Don Juan's comment in the writings of Castaneda that the mind is a "foreign installation".

This foreign installation manifests in the human as personal will - more commonly called: ego

The ego manages the human to protect the ego's highest asset: self-esteem.

The ego hates to be wrong and will often discard physical health and emotional relationships rather than admit that it has been mistaken in its beliefs for decades.

The ego runs the defense mechanisms of the human - fending off efforts to reduce the independence of the host human.

The ego progressively trains the physical, emotional and lower mental parts of the human to act in a coordinated manner. Thus the human gets its act together.

Eventually the integrated human makes contact with trans-personal energy and may choose to align with higher purpose.

To reach first stage enlightenment , the human must learn to control the ego. As a result the role of the ego moves from defense to creativity.

Thus the ego has two functions.

It may be that all parts of the human structure have at least two functions. A one-eyed view of the human is not advised.

 

[Lazarus]

@Wintruz

I don’t buy into original sin in the Christian sense. No one needs “saving”.

One could take cyanide, but it won’t solve anything. You’ll just have to deal with the same issues in another incarnation. Might as well get it over with now. ¯\(ツ)/¯

Your last paragraph argues the opposing view. The opposite of reabsorption and becoming independent of the source (the Lucifer story).

I don’t think one view is better than the other.

Given that the entire universe will eventually collapse back onto itself, I kind of see that as being the reabsorption event. So how any of feel about it one or the other really doesn’t matter.

 

[Xenophon]

@Wintruz

I don’t buy into original sin in the Christian sense. No one needs “saving”.

One could take cyanide, but it won’t solve anything. You’ll just have to deal with the same issues in another incarnation. Might as well get it over with now. ¯\(ツ)/¯

Your last paragraph argues the opposing view. The opposite of reabsorption and becoming independent of the source (the Lucifer story).

I don’t think one view is better than the other.

Given that the entire universe will eventually collapse back onto itself, I kind of see that as being the reabsorption event. So how any of feel about it one or the other really doesn’t matter.

Maybe I'm a short-term kind of guy, but I've never been able to draw any guidance one way or the other from such a far off (and entirely hypothetical) event like the alleged end of the universe?

Post automatically merged: May 14, 2024

What makes the ego? Your skin color? The line of people born before you? The location you were born into? The culture and norms of the place? The fascinations, revulsions, phobias and fetishes you've accumulated over your lifetime while operating with this pre-ordained identity?

None of these things are chosen by us, they're like an iron cast we're born into that shapes us, but none of the things listed above have anything to actually do with who you are, yet they drive your decisions, views, reactions, etc.

I see ego-disillusion as removing everything from you that is not you so that you may recreate yourself in full sober awareness. Most terrible desires and impulses are rooted in egoic desire and craving too, so when the ego is transcended, the liberated soul is naturally more graceful.

I see it as throwing off the chains of pre-determinism and fate to become who you truly are, not who you were born as.

Why should choice matter? It's like a poker game: the true artist with cards creates a winner from the random shite he's dealt. Indeed, the less his initial choice, the greater his genius in crafting it into aught memorable.

Post automatically merged: May 14, 2024

Giving up the ego isn’t the point. The point is total reabsorption with the source. Losing the ego is a by-product of that process. I’m speaking of course about the full circuit of involution and evolution, which transcends Malkuthian paradigms.

The purpose of giving up the ego here on earth while incarnate is to perfect the conduit. “Thy will be done” and all that jazz.

Ah, sort of turning cosmic catamite.

 

[Promise]

My take is ego is not a singular construct, but rather the aspects of self identity which are capable of causing negative emotional reactions. In some way - a variety of possibilities here - these should be dealt with so that the magician can exert power in the face of one or more of these being threatened.

A simplified way to identify these ego aspects is fill in the blanks below, with as large a list as you can come up with. Then deal with them in some way.

I am ...
I am not ...

 

[8Lou1]

xeno you ask a question and then start to ramble around it so we cant see the question anymore. you had 1 question: what to do with ego?
answer is simple you destroy it and then start building a newer better version.

now i ramble the rest for you: so first you go left hand path and totally go godhead until you reach the tower of babylon and you get destruction, misunderstanding and loss of faith. you go down and out. God is death. you feel like a lost soul and you go searching for a new way to create and thats on your right.

you are not a youngster so youre time in the middle of the crossroad/ middle pillar (the place you seem to like here on wf) is longer then with youngsters who you can see flying around understanding all that shit and they look so knowledgeable. let me tell you they dont know shit. they havent lived as long as you, they dont have the life experience you do, you are Da Master and you have your own tricks. i once shared chinese knitting online, you prob have something so wise and unique in your line you can share as well. ill be your little shinchan..

usui also invented reiki, at least thats how the story goes...

 

[Xenophon]

xeno you ask a question and then start to ramble around it so we cant see the question anymore. you had 1 question: what to do with ego?
answer is simple you destroy it and then start building a newer better version.

now i ramble the rest for you: so first you go left hand path and totally go godhead until you reach the tower of babylon and you get destruction, misunderstanding and loss of faith. you go down and out. God is death. you feel like a lost soul and you go searching for a new way to create and thats on your right.

you are not a youngster so youre time in the middle of the crossroad/ middle pillar (the place you seem to like here on wf) is longer then with youngsters who you can see flying around understanding all that shit and they look so knowledgeable. let me tell you they dont know shit. they havent lived as long as you, they dont have the life experience you do, you are Da Master and you have your own tricks. i once shared chinese knitting online, you prob have something so wise and unique in your line you can share as well. ill be your little shinchan..

usui also invented reiki, at least thats how the story goes...

Actually, I was dropping hints that I do not think ego destruction is the panacea it's made out to be. Like Herman Melville wrote, "The angel is simply the shark self-governed." Scratch an individual trying to rid itself of ego and you'll pop a pustule of self-loathing.