Goetic Spirits and direction

[William66]

Salam alaikum

For people who have or do evocation, do you consider the direction of the spirit when evoking?

Let’s say a spirit is from West or South West and you are facing East, would that effect your operation in a negative way since you are not facing the right direction? As of negative way i mean in no results.

Many know the importance of the planetary day/hour for evoking, is it the same weight as direction?

I know that some spirits comes from a certain direction, but what about the goetic spirits? Can they come from East yet they are West/SW?

I did not think of this when i did my evocations and i had success, but ofcourse i want to improve.
Thoughts on this matter?

Thanks for your time and answer

 

[Yazata]

What I did for a while was look at where the Zodiac sign was at the moment of calling.
Example: Bael is (said to) correspond with the first degrees of Aries, this sign currently is the North, so I would then turn to the North etc.

 

[MorganBlack]

I use them when they are available, mostly to mindful of the big patterns of what I tend to think of as 'The Archetypal Magician's Ritual', and sync up with our "current" (as I think of it) more, and as we discover more of it

In the Grimorium Verum - my main grim for over 25 years - is structured a bit mythically differently than the Keys, and the directions are not used so much. Aside from the Four Kings, who are also additions from syncing with the rest of Goetia.

I have had them show up from different directions, but I am also not super heavy handed on that front. But I think they are worth considering. JSK tried to map the GV hierarchy with the other infernal grims and made some notes about directions.

 

[FireBorn]

I once had Vepar tell me I was facing the wrong direction, didn’t follow the proper timing, wasn’t wearing the "appropriate" thread-count robes, my candles weren’t expensive enough, and apparently my dog needed a bath.

Of course, I’m joking. But here’s the thing: If we start worrying that direction is the make or break for evocation, where does that line of thinking end? What about the thread count of your robes? Or your house, do you think it’s clean enough to host a Duke or a King?

For me, direction just hasn’t been a concern. My success rate with evocations and invocations is extremely high, and none of that had to do with facing the “right” way. The truth is, the direction doesn’t matter to the spirit as much as it matters to you, the practitioner. It’s about how much weight you put into it.

If facing a particular direction helps you feel more in tune, or authentic, with the ritual, then by all means, face East or whatever your grimoire suggests. If it adds a certain energy or oomph to the work, then that’s your answer. But at the end of the day, it’s about what resonates with you.

Now, if a spirit explicitly tells you to face a certain way, that’s different, and you should follow their guidance, even if it goes against the traditional "rules" of your texts. Hope that helps a little.

 

[William66]

I once had Vepar tell me I was facing the wrong direction, didn’t follow the proper timing, wasn’t wearing the "appropriate" thread-count robes, my candles weren’t expensive enough, and apparently my dog needed a bath.

Of course, I’m joking. But here’s the thing: If we start worrying that direction is the make or break for evocation, where does that line of thinking end? What about the thread count of your robes? Or your house, do you think it’s clean enough to host a Duke or a King?

For me, direction just hasn’t been a concern. My success rate with evocations and invocations is extremely high, and none of that had to do with facing the “right” way. The truth is, the direction doesn’t matter to the spirit as much as it matters to you, the practitioner. It’s about how much weight you put into it.

If facing a particular direction helps you feel more in tune, or authentic, with the ritual, then by all means, face East or whatever your grimoire suggests. If it adds a certain energy or oomph to the work, then that’s your answer. But at the end of the day, it’s about what resonates with you.

Now, if a spirit explicitly tells you to face a certain way, that’s different, and you should follow their guidance, even if it goes against the traditional "rules" of your texts. Hope that helps a little.

Thanks for your answer.

Yes it can add tune, oomph to the work, but it will also make the spirit aware that you are aware of the direction if that makes sense?

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 2:14 PM

What I did for a while was look at where the Zodiac sign was at the moment of calling.
Example: Bael is (said to) correspond with the first degrees of Aries, this sign currently is the North, so I would then turn to the North etc.

Ahh i see, intresting, what i do, i look at the spirits king, and i go from there, but when working in a limited space, it can be tricky.

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 2:23 PM

I use them when they are available, mostly to mindful of the big patterns of what I tend to think of as 'The Archetypal Magician's Ritual', and sync up with our "current" (as I think of it) more, and as we discover more of it

In the Grimorium Verum - my main grim for over 25 years - is structured a bit mythically differently than the Keys, and the directions are not used so much. Aside from the Four Kings, who are also additions from syncing with the rest of Goetia.

I have had them show up from different directions, but I am also not super heavy handed on that front. But I think they are worth considering. JSK tried to map the GV hierarchy with the other infernal grims and made some notes about directions.

Thanks for your answer, yes i do think it is worth considering the direction.

May i ask what do you think about the Heptameron? Since you have GV as main grim for 25+ years?

What is your take on the names given in the Elucidation of necromancy such as names of seasons, angels, hour, heaven etc… Considering them could also increase a positive result.

Abit off topic NP<3

 

[stalkinghyena]

For people who have or do evocation, do you consider the direction of the spirit when evoking?

Generally, I face one direction for such rituals due to the constraints of space, though I do consider the location in terms of Zodiacal reference, especially the Decans and their magical images. These are actually part of the dialogue of discussion, and the general answer is that "That's my house but its not where I work."

As of negative way i mean in no results.

I view these things in terms of process as opposed to a 1:1 ratio of ask-receive. So things develop and "unwritten rites" appear as to more specific workings, though I consider this still within the bounds of the Solomonic tech. These may actually involve directional considerations of a more immediate moment.

Many know the importance of the planetary day/hour for evoking, is it the same weight as direction?

I used to try to conform to this, but I it led to many delays that seemed pointless. Our clocks are not medieval, and are far more ruthless in terms of their efficient cause of kicking our buts into motion.
I have come to think not so much in terms of timing to charts and tables, but tuning in to frequencies or tones. These can have symbolic values that don't fit well into existing charts of times in a literal surface sense. In the figurative sense, there are levels of interpretation that may present themselves.

I know that some spirits comes from a certain direction, but what about the goetic spirits? Can they come from East yet they are West/SW?

Recently, after reading Trithemius, I have taken an interest in Theurgia Goetia, which is part of the complete Lemegeton. It seems to have had a huge influence on the Steganographia as well as on many other later sources. Apparently, some of the names in the TG also have connection to the GV, relations I think worth exploring in a future project in expanding on knowledge of the 72.

One thing of important note is that in presenting its directional wheel with its names, the TG says some spirits (Kings) are fixed while others are moveable, and that it doesn't matter which way you face. I make no assertions on a snapshot here, but I think its a lead into a deeper mode of working, however one can slice it.

 

[Faria]

For people who have or do evocation, do you consider the direction of the spirit when evoking?

Does not matter. Spirit hails from wherever it wants, and what direction you face will not impact the outcome or whether it answers.

Imagine Solomon in Jerusalem, surrounded by numerous pagan nations. The 72 demons of the Goetia are all the gods of those nations. Spirits of Egypt and Arabia are in the south, those of Britain and France are in the west. The north has Scandinavia and Russia, the east has Babylon, India, and the Orient.