How to distinguish True Will from other things?

[JGVDRG]

I know it's a very broad and maybe vague question, but I'm making it anyway. I understand that the concept of Will is essential to any craft and to all arts.

If True Will must be liberated from the conscious ties, how does one discover it, if the individual is constantly under the oppression of consciousness?
There are known methods of discovering True Will: meditation, self discovery/exploration, magic itself.

But how do you know? What if, even in practice, everything seems bland and more or less the same? How does one distinguish it from obsessions, random desires, temporary things and thoughts?

 

[Xenophon]

I've been taught that there's no neat, easily available criterion. A good deal of the matter is experience over time, especially non-magickal experience. Do difficult, unpleasant, out-of-character things and get some firm idea of who and what you are. The point is to be doing something highly needful, preferably while tired and stressed, and not reflecting about it.

Paired with magickal work, you eventually start getting a sense of that Will. Some people call this a voice in their head, some a strong impulse, others call it other things. As stated, though, this is hardly the kind of thing that comes after a weekend retreat. It will probably take years---though, yes, some people are lucky enough to get their demi-apotheosis suddenly.

Of course, there doubtless are other traditions than the one I hint at. Some of these might be quicker...

 

[Shade]

I think you may be overcomplicating the term “True Will”, it’s being true to yourself, if you are always guiding yourself to be better then you are already following your true Will. Wether it be through your obsessions, random desires (learn from mistakes) and do your best to control what you can and don’t let things you can’t control disturb your inner peace, it’s always easier said than done but that’s a part of growth. Love is the law, it is only placed under Will because we should strive to be the best version of ourselves but also not be too hasty in disregarding our Will for the convenience of others nor should we neglect the needs of others by looking down on them. Our True Will is simply to be better than we were the day before. Whatever that means to you.
Balance selfish acts with love. Your true will is a reflection of what you desire, if you know what you desire you may be able to figure out your true will from there. Good thoughts, deeds and words sounds charitable but my true will is to be in control of myself so I can overcome any obstacle. balancing true Will with the law.
That’s my two cents anyways.

Post automatically merged: Aug 3, 2024

I may have worded that poorly, but it’s a balancing act, if you follow “do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law, love is the law, Love under Will”
Do as you Will as long as you don’t look down on others otherwise it makes it harder to learn what your true Will is. Your’re Will should align with your inner desires i.e. Discipline, growth, and improvement is what we should all strive for as occultists imo. How you go about that is in accordance to your Will just in pursuit of that don’t forget love is the law.

 

[TheMouse]

thats an interesting question and something ive struggled with . . . for a long time i would desire things and make sigils and stuff and they would never come to pass . . . and i finally realized (am in the process of realizing) . . after Years of shadow work . . that i really did not want what i thought i wanted . . . and thank All the angels I did not get those things i thought i wanted (phew!) . . . i was actually simply trying to repeat past patterns or trying to reclaim some thing or some feeling that no longer suited me. . . or maybe having some idea of a desire i picked up from someone else's enthusiasm . . . . i dont know what i was doing, frankly . . . . .

i really like this . . . .

Our True Will is simply to be better than we were the day before. Whatever that means to you.

that resonates . . . . there are times, like right now maybe, when i dont really Know what it is i want . . . but im sure getting an idea of what i dont want . . . . . sometimes my only True Will on any given day is that i just want to feel better . . in my head! . . . . so i go with that . . . . . . the better i feel . . and the more i clear out the old patterns and scripts and expectations and all that past noise . . . . the more i sense my own True Will . . . . . it's a process . . . and a relationship . . . . . me and my Will . . . . . . . . .

 

[Shade]

thats an interesting question and something ive struggled with . . . for a long time i would desire things and make sigils and stuff and they would never come to pass . . . and i finally realized (am in the process of realizing) . . after Years of shadow work . . that i really did not want what i thought i wanted . . . and thank All the angels I did not get those things i thought i wanted (phew!) . . . i was actually simply trying to repeat past patterns or trying to reclaim some thing or some feeling that no longer suited me. . . or maybe having some idea of a desire i picked up from someone else's enthusiasm . . . . i dont know what i was doing, frankly . . . . .

i really like this . . . .

that resonates . . . . there are times, like right now maybe, when i dont really Know what it is i want . . . but im sure getting an idea of what i dont want . . . . . sometimes my only True Will on any given day is that i just want to feel better . . in my head! . . . . so i go with that . . . . . . the better i feel . . and the more i clear out the old patterns and scripts and expectations and all that past noise . . . . the more i sense my own True Will . . . . . it's a process . . . and a relationship . . . . . me and my Will . . . . . . . . .

It’s ok to not know what you want, not everyone has their life figured out, it helps to have small goals to work on to improve yourself, your discipline and your thoughts and actions. Once those small achievements accumulate the bigger picture has a better chance to be revealed.

 

[JGVDRG]

Do difficult, unpleasant, out-of-character things and get some firm idea of who and what you are. The point is to be doing something highly needful, preferably while tired and stressed, and not reflecting about it.

I'm doing this for years, but just became a bit desensitized about day-to-day BS and kind of shifted to the "no will" process. Fortunately, some inspiration have came forth yesterday at night, hours after I made this thread. There's much to be considered.

I think you may be overcomplicating the term “True Will”, it’s being true to yourself, if you are always guiding yourself to be better then you are already following your true Will

Yeah, my 450 personas won't help me a lot on that. But I get what you're saying. All in all, your two cents were indeed valuable to me, thanks.

thats an interesting question and something ive struggled with . . . for a long time i would desire things and make sigils and stuff and they would never come to pass . . . and i finally realized (am in the process of realizing) . . after Years of shadow work . . that i really did not want what i thought i wanted . . . and thank All the angels I did not get those things i thought i wanted (phew!) . . . i was actually simply trying to repeat past patterns or trying to reclaim some thing or some feeling that no longer suited me. . . or maybe having some idea of a desire i picked up from someone else's enthusiasm . . . . i dont know what i was doing, frankly . . . .

I related hard to your history, amigo.

 

[pixel_fortune]

Every now and again, I make a decision that feels like it entered my brain as a calm, already settled certainty.

Eg after years of trying to exercise regularly and always having to fight myself to go to the gym, one day I woke up and my brain was just like... "We do this now" and it was still like... inconvenient, but it was no longer a battle. It became a habit overnight.

I've had similar things with cutting someone out of my life. Ordinarily there's a lot of internal moral wrestling with what's the best course of action, but a couple of times it's like something deeper than my usual consciousness decided for me, and it's already settled

I've come to believe that those moments are True Will. A distinguishing feature is the calmness, and the sense that I'm not making a decision, but rather discovering that the decision has already been made for me

Anecdotally, I've heard people escaping life or death situations describe something similar. Eg even though the situation is urgent and frantic - in one example, a woman was in a car with someone who had just smashed her head into the window twice - but they don't FEEL frantic, they feel a calm, unhurried certainty about what the next right action is to get them out of there.

 

[Xenophon]

Every now and again, I make a decision that feels like it entered my brain as a calm, already settled certainty.

Eg after years of trying to exercise regularly and always having to fight myself to go to the gym, one day I woke up and my brain was just like... "We do this now" and it was still like... inconvenient, but it was no longer a battle. It became a habit overnight.

I've had similar things with cutting someone out of my life. Ordinarily there's a lot of internal moral wrestling with what's the best course of action, but a couple of times it's like something deeper than my usual consciousness decided for me, and it's already settled

I've come to believe that those moments are True Will. A distinguishing feature is the calmness, and the sense that I'm not making a decision, but rather discovering that the decision has already been made for me

Anecdotally, I've heard people escaping life or death situations describe something similar. Eg even though the situation is urgent and frantic - in one example, a woman was in a car with someone who had just smashed her head into the window twice - but they don't FEEL frantic, they feel a calm, unhurried certainty about what the next right action is to get them out of there.

In (I think) "That Hideous Strength" C.S. Lewis writes about something similar. The character does not "decide" to go do a painful interview. He rather recognizes that, "By this time tomorrow, you will have done X."

 

[pixel_fortune]

In (I think) "That Hideous Strength" C.S. Lewis writes about something similar. The character does not "decide" to go do a painful interview. He rather recognizes that, "By this time tomorrow, you will have done X."

Interesting!

 

[Xenophon]

Personally, I tend to notice that what I take as prompts from my daimon seem to come from one area in the body. What I identify as impulses come from another area, or from no area in particular. Has anyone else had a similar series of experiences?

 

[Khoren_]

Personally, I tend to notice that what I take as prompts from my daimon seem to come from one area in the body. What I identify as impulses come from another area, or from no area in particular. Has anyone else had a similar series of experiences?

ackshually

I have this thing where the different side of the brain "tingle" depending on which "course" is going to be taken. I've come to understand the actions which are "right" are the actions which make my left hemisphere "tingle" and the actions which are "wrong" are the actions that make my right hemisphere "tingle". Now, I'm using "right" and "left" very loosely here, as sometimes I'll make certain "wrong" actions to effect a change or to follow a different path than what I would normally take.

I also suggest OP read the thread on Wu Wei and look into Ziran, as these are similar thoughts to the "Higher Self", "True Will", "Daimon"

 

[RoccoR]

RE: How to distinguish True Will from other things?
SUBTOPIC: The interpretation of "True" and "Will"
※→ Amour-Propre, et al,

I think you may be overcomplicating the term “True Will”, it’s being true to yourself, if you are always guiding yourself to be better then you are already following your true Will.

(QUESTION)

Is there a practical difference between "Free Will" • and • "True Will?" (The Denial of Free Will and the Understanding of True Will?). Is it possible to distinguish "True Will" in any other way than [COLOR=rgb(247, 218, 100)]Amour-Propre[/COLOR] has presented?

(COMMENT)

Many scholars contend that the individual (one's self), reasoning ability, consciousness, and morality are all argumentatively connected in concept.

When we talk about "Will" • are we talking on the Metaphysical level or the Supernatural level? This level presupposes the existence (faith-based) of an intelligence on the cosmic order ("First Cause," the "Creator," the "Ultimate Intelligent Power of the Universe," or the "Supreme Being.").

2 Corinthians 9:6-7. ​

This passage refers again to the special offering that Paul was collecting for the believers​

at Jerusalem. We see that such offerings are free-will, meaning that each believer makes​

his own decision about how much to give (2 Co. 9:7). Paul promises that God will bless​

their giving.​

SOURCE: The Way of Life Encyclopedia of the Bible & Christianity Sixth edition,​

March 2016 By David W. Cloud Copyright 1993, 1997, 2000, 2002, 2008 • p639​

This Metaphysical Level of "True" (or truth) assumes a cosmic intelligence.

"The definition of True should be ‘formally correct’. This means that it should be a sentence of the form

For all x, True(x) if and only if ¥(x).​

where True never occurs in ¥; or failing this, that the definition should be provably equivalent to a sentence of this form. The equivalence must be provable using axioms of the metalanguage that don’t contain True. Definitions of the kind displayed above are usually called explicit, though Tarski in 1933 called them normal."
SOURCE: Tarski’s Truth Definitions

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•• From: Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy First published Sat Nov 10, 2001; substantive revision Wed Sep 21, 2022
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Most Respectfully,
R

 

[loady]

Imo the notion of true will can only exist if someone believes or accepts the notion of a higher self , in that situation the higher self will assimilate (paradoxically) or usurp your own will to suit its own narrative and its own will .

A parasite in other words .

Initiates are highly influenced by the higher self .

 

[Shade]

RE: How to distinguish True Will from other things?
SUBTOPIC: The interpretation of "True" and "Will"
※→ Amour-Propre, et al,

(QUESTION)

Is there a practical difference between "Free Will" • and • "True Will?" (The Denial of Free Will and the Understanding of True Will?). Is it possible to distinguish "True Will" in any other way than [COLOR=rgb(247, 218, 100)]Amour-Propre[/COLOR] has presented?

(COMMENT)

Many scholars contend that the individual (one's self), reasoning ability, consciousness, and morality are all argumentatively connected in concept.

When we talk about "Will" • are we talking on the Metaphysical level or the Supernatural level? This level presupposes the existence (faith-based) of an intelligence on the cosmic order ("First Cause," the "Creator," the "Ultimate Intelligent Power of the Universe," or the "Supreme Being.").

2 Corinthians 9:6-7. ​

This passage refers again to the special offering that Paul was collecting for the believers​

at Jerusalem. We see that such offerings are free-will, meaning that each believer makes​

his own decision about how much to give (2 Co. 9:7). Paul promises that God will bless​

their giving.​

SOURCE: The Way of Life Encyclopedia of the Bible & Christianity Sixth edition,​

March 2016 By David W. Cloud Copyright 1993, 1997, 2000, 2002, 2008 • p639​

This Metaphysical Level of "True" (or truth) assumes a cosmic intelligence.

"The definition of True should be ‘formally correct’. This means that it should be a sentence of the form

For all x, True(x) if and only if ¥(x).​

where True never occurs in ¥; or failing this, that the definition should be provably equivalent to a sentence of this form. The equivalence must be provable using axioms of the metalanguage that don’t contain True. Definitions of the kind displayed above are usually called explicit, though Tarski in 1933 called them normal."
SOURCE: Tarski’s Truth Definitions

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•• From: Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy First published Sat Nov 10, 2001; substantive revision Wed Sep 21, 2022
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Most Respectfully,
R

That is a very, detailed, thought out post with many sources provided. I appreciate that. I don’t have anything to disagree with, I think your comment “Many scholars contend that the individual (one's self), reasoning ability, consciousness, and morality are all argumentatively connected in concept” is a very valid and true point in breaking down the essence of what one’s “Will” is.

When I think of “Will” I think of it as more of a metaphysical aspect of human existence, That is to say… all conscious beings have a Will, it’s to fundamental to life.

l’d also say that… Ones honest thoughts, words and deeds are a physical manifestation of your Will. When in alignment with one’s reasoning ability, consciousness and morality. That is the persons “True Will”. If “True Will” is described in a sentence I believe that would be a good way to put it. Then again, that could also just describe a persons “Nature”. So you definitely gave me something to contemplate on,

 

[pixel_fortune]

RE: How to distinguish True Will from other things?
SUBTOPIC: The interpretation of "True" and "Will"
※→ Amour-Propre, et al,

(QUESTION)

Is there a practical difference between "Free Will" • and • "True Will?" (The Denial of Free Will and the Understanding of True Will?). Is it possible to distinguish "True Will" in any other way than [COLOR=rgb(247, 218, 100)]Amour-Propre[/COLOR] has presented?

(COMMENT)

Many scholars contend that the individual (one's self), reasoning ability, consciousness, and morality are all argumentatively connected in concept.

When we talk about "Will" • are we talking on the Metaphysical level or the Supernatural level? This level presupposes the existence (faith-based) of an intelligence on the cosmic order ("First Cause," the "Creator," the "Ultimate Intelligent Power of the Universe," or the "Supreme Being.").

2 Corinthians 9:6-7. ​

This passage refers again to the special offering that Paul was collecting for the believers​

at Jerusalem. We see that such offerings are free-will, meaning that each believer makes​

his own decision about how much to give (2 Co. 9:7). Paul promises that God will bless​

their giving.​

SOURCE: The Way of Life Encyclopedia of the Bible & Christianity Sixth edition,​

March 2016 By David W. Cloud Copyright 1993, 1997, 2000, 2002, 2008 • p639​

This Metaphysical Level of "True" (or truth) assumes a cosmic intelligence.

"The definition of True should be ‘formally correct’. This means that it should be a sentence of the form

For all x, True(x) if and only if ¥(x).​

where True never occurs in ¥; or failing this, that the definition should be provably equivalent to a sentence of this form. The equivalence must be provable using axioms of the metalanguage that don’t contain True. Definitions of the kind displayed above are usually called explicit, though Tarski in 1933 called them normal."
SOURCE: Tarski’s Truth Definitions

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•• From: Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy First published Sat Nov 10, 2001; substantive revision Wed Sep 21, 2022
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at the Center for the Study of Language and Information (CSLI) at Stanford University.

Most Respectfully,
R

So in this case "true will" is a term of art - that is, technical jargon - and so splitting it up into its component words and analysing them i think is not super relevant

It would be like trying to analyse what the BBC's "World Service" is by looking at the philosophical definitions of "world" and "service" - you would end up with something very different and probably more spiritual than "it's a radio station". Yes, it is a service, for the world, so it's not UNconnected, but it would still be not a good way of figuring out what it actually is

Similarly True Will is not UNconnected from the ideas of truth and will (free or otherwise), but it's fundamentally a technical term, not the sum of its component words

 

[JGVDRG]

I'm very glad to see that this thread got so fruitful. Reading the replies alone opened the doors for many insights of my own, so I appreciate it a lot.
May the cosmic and chaotic forces conspire in favor of you all.

 

[loady]

Imo the notion of true will can only exist if someone believes or accepts the notion of a higher self , in that situation the higher self will assimilate (paradoxically) or usurp your own will to suit its own narrative and its own will .

A parasite in other words .

Initiates are highly influenced by the higher self .

Furthermore you can view it as adhering to the allotment of predeterminism trough destiny , the powers that be wants to prevent you from deviating from maat or dharma , their version of what they seem is apprioate action for every lesser cog wheels inside a big timemachine that is ruled trough a timegod - that timegod has a direct relationship with metatron or little Jehovah / higher self and the timegod himself bends to the forces of the underworld or the reptilians of the underworld at will - its both a lineage tree and a food chain - they want to keep you subservient to their matrix so you keep feeding their creators with your energy.

 

[loady]

Furthermore you can view it as adhering to the allotment of predeterminism trough destiny , the powers that be wants to prevent you from deviating from maat or dharma , their version of what they seem is apprioate action for every lesser cog wheels inside a big timemachine that is ruled trough a timegod - that timegod has a direct relationship with metatron or little Jehovah / higher self and the timegod himself bends to the forces of the underworld or the reptilians of the underworld at will - its both a lineage tree and a food chain - they want to keep you subservient to their matrix so you keep feeding their creators with your energy.

I know it's a very broad and maybe vague question, but I'm making it anyway. I understand that the concept of Will is essential to any craft and to all arts.

If True Will must be liberated from the conscious ties, how does one discover it, if the individual is constantly under the oppression of consciousness?
There are known methods of discovering True Will: meditation, self discovery/exploration, magic itself.

But how do you know? What if, even in practice, everything seems bland and more or less the same? How does one distinguish it from obsessions, random desires, temporary things and thoughts?

I wrote the following on my fb a long time ago , maybe it could shed some further light into the issue
astrology folks...a helpless breed indeed.

i want to emphasize that planets symbolise gods and not the other way around. secondly planets were only one aspect of many diffrent archetyphical energy aspects of the "gods"

these planets and thier influence appear as imprisoning energies for the normal bloke but they could be altered and even destroyed by one of the higher microcosmic bodies of god "which are connected to mystery rites" for alchemical purposes. these iconic mystery bodies of god that is put in use in mystery schools are all a programmed insertions within the collective consiousness of mankind - for normal folks they lie latent as inactive - but for the one who has activated one of the many "higher ranked" mystical bodies of gods - they are used to rule over time. and the god use these as he pleases to exert influence in accordance to a prefixed timewheel that is ever cyclical.

its also important to realise that we are dealing with an "superego" or the reptilian spirit that expresses itself in forms of multitude trough the iconic and codified god dresses of the world.so we have a world dictatorship instead of a free world.

you could say that these planets are lesser gods that functions as cog wheels inside a massive time machine which fate lies in the hands of the clock turner.

being subservient to astrology and planets are no diffrent than being subservient to religion - becuse both feed the clock turner just the same.

As mentioned in the post that preceded this one , for the initiated the connection to the time his is trough their higher self

 

[loady]

I'm very glad to see that this thread got so fruitful. Reading the replies alone opened the doors for many insights of my own, so I appreciate it a lot.
May the cosmic and chaotic forces conspire in favor of you all.

Following up to my prior two posts on the matter

Imo we can sum it up by mentioning

That true will has nothing to do with ones individual true self or for that matter any objective truth , nor does it have any connection to many moralism of right and wrong , essentially
true will can be replaced with the concept of "maat" or universal balance/order out of chaos

Chaos = serpent controlling the unconsiousness of the collective subconsiousness of the human race

Order = serpents fashioning whatever reality simulation they want from the unconsiousness of the collective subconsiousness

They want to keep you imprisoned as a slave under the sun god and his creators from the underworld

 

[Ziran]

If True Will must be liberated from the conscious ties, how does one discover it, if the individual is constantly under the oppression of consciousness?

Listen to your heart. It reacts before the intellect in most cases. Cultivate a sensitivity to your feelings. It sounds very "obi-wan-kenobi", but, it works. If you need a more detailed answer, perhaps with examples, let me know.