I think part of the issues facing modern day society is the reluctance to acknowledge the darker aspects of the psyche.

[Wildchildx11]

I've received a lot of therapy, I'm very self-aware. I've been in therapy since I was 7, in and out of hospitals, DBT, CBT, EMDR, I've had it all, I guess it's a weird thing to be grateful for, but having to learn this insight from an early childhood give me a lot of benefit in Magickal workings.


I think that a lot of conflicts in modern day society, are as a result of a reluctance to acknowledge the darker aspects of the psyche, I do have some pretty weird and uncomfortable delusions which as a conflict of this psyche, a lot of them involve thinking or feeling that I'm going to end up causing some kind of cataclysmic event against my own will, when I don't really want to destroy. This battle between good and evil, or order and chaos represent some pretty deep meaning on a primordial level of the consciousness.

One thing I've noticed in therapy and among therapists especially, is that there is a tendency to ignore, or be dismissive of the darker aspects of the psyche, I try to mention and process some of these delusions and there is this uncomfortably, or tendency to dismiss it. I know I'm not the Beast in the book of Revelations, I know I'm not Hitler, or some other genocidal dictator, I know I'm not going to be responsible for causing or influencing a genocide, but I have some pretty vivid delusions and fears over repressing these aspects of the psyche. I want to get down to the nitty gritty, the ugliness of myself. Working on myself isn't all love and light, peace and happiness.


It's kind of like how society views death, I think a lot of modern day social problems are due to this tendency to completely neglect these aspects of the psyche. Crime, murder, genocide, war, anger, rage, depression, hopelessness. They are the shadow coming out unconsciously because we neglect it instead of being aware of it.

On to the primary discussion topic, I've thought about including this in Left Hand Path, but it probably fits better here. Does there need to be a change in our cultural understanding in terms of how we view and understand these topics, especially among practitioners of therapy, health clinicians, etc? Instead of ignoring the shadow and neglecting it, should we view it as not fighting against it and opposing it, but learning to work with it and alongside it?

The topic when mentioning some of my unconscious fears usually goes something like this:


"I have delusions that I'm going to be responsible for a genocide in this life"
Therapist gets noticibly uncomfortable "Oh, let's work on and practice mindfulness"

Mindfulness isn't what I need, it's just pushing them aside, I need to learn to understand and comprehend my fears.

 

[Yazata]

I've received a lot of therapy, I'm very self-aware. I've been in therapy since I was 7, in and out of hospitals, DBT, CBT, EMDR, I've had it all, I guess it's a weird thing to be grateful for, but having to learn this insight from an early childhood give me a lot of benefit in Magickal workings.


I think that a lot of conflicts in modern day society, are as a result of a reluctance to acknowledge the darker aspects of the psyche, I do have some pretty weird and uncomfortable delusions which as a conflict of this psyche, a lot of them involve thinking or feeling that I'm going to end up causing some kind of cataclysmic event against my own will, when I don't really want to destroy. This battle between good and evil, or order and chaos represent some pretty deep meaning on a primordial level of the consciousness.

One thing I've noticed in therapy and among therapists especially, is that there is a tendency to ignore, or be dismissive of the darker aspects of the psyche, I try to mention and process some of these delusions and there is this uncomfortably, or tendency to dismiss it. I know I'm not the Beast in the book of Revelations, I know I'm not Hitler, or some other genocidal dictator, I know I'm not going to be responsible for causing or influencing a genocide, but I have some pretty vivid delusions and fears over repressing these aspects of the psyche. I want to get down to the nitty gritty, the ugliness of myself. Working on myself isn't all love and light, peace and happiness.


It's kind of like how society views death, I think a lot of modern day social problems are due to this tendency to completely neglect these aspects of the psyche. Crime, murder, genocide, war, anger, rage, depression, hopelessness. They are the shadow coming out unconsciously because we neglect it instead of being aware of it.

On to the primary discussion topic, I've thought about including this in Left Hand Path, but it probably fits better here. Does there need to be a change in our cultural understanding in terms of how we view and understand these topics, especially among practitioners of therapy, health clinicians, etc? Instead of ignoring the shadow and neglecting it, should we view it as not fighting against it and opposing it, but learning to work with it and alongside it?

The topic when mentioning some of my unconscious fears usually goes something like this:


"I have delusions that I'm going to be responsible for a genocide in this life"
Therapist gets noticibly uncomfortable "Oh, let's work on and practice mindfulness"

Mindfulness isn't what I need, it's just pushing them aside, I need to learn to understand and comprehend my fears.

What I really see way more in the world is the glorification if everything that is slightly "dark" and people are very keen to show just how big their shadow is.

 

[Wildchildx11]

What I really see way more in the world is the glorification if everything that is slightly "dark" and people are very keen to show just how big their shadow is.

Is this glorification because we repress these aspects of us, and they represent meaning on a deeper level?

Like, I'm not dark or edgy at all. I'm the farthest thing. I strive to help others in need. I go out of my way to help the homeless, or just talk to them and treat them like a person.

 

[Xenophon]

What I really see way more in the world is the glorification if everything that is slightly "dark" and people are very keen to show just how big their shadow is.

Yes, there is a definite chic to angsty oscura. To hear a number of LHP fellow travellers, you'd swear we still lived in the middle of the Victorian era. A Victorian era policed by some never-ever-existed version of the Inquisition.

Post automatically merged: May 8, 2024

Is this glorification because we repress these aspects of us, and they represent meaning on a deeper level?

Like, I'm not dark or edgy at all. I'm the farthest thing. I strive to help others in need. I go out of my way to help the homeless, or just talk to them and treat them like a person.

Mostly I think it's just because, having despaired of meaning, there are a lot of self-drama junkies out there. Everybody is acting in (and out) his own reality TV show that's airing betwixt his ears.

 

[Yazata]

Is this glorification because we repress these aspects of us, and they represent meaning on a deeper level?

Like, I'm not dark or edgy at all. I'm the farthest thing. I strive to help others in need. I go out of my way to help the homeless, or just talk to them and treat them like a person.

Is there any repression in the West today? I don't want to judge you personally or anybody else for that matter, but as a total, in our societies what I see really is the opposite of it.
And then everybody has to "one up" it.

 

[Wildchildx11]

Is there any repression in the West today? I don't want to judge you personally or anybody else for that matter, but as a total, in our societies what I see really is the opposite of it.
And then everybody has to "one up" it.

I think it comes out unconsciously because there is a lack of balance in spiritual meaning.

I take that back, people go towards the extreme, but I'm not sure they are consciously aware they are doing it.

 

[DiLoco_DelEted]

Yes ... There is repression in the West. Big time. In all areas of life. And a large part of why is because the shadow self is largely ignored by the repressed.

 

[KjEno186]

I know I'm not Hitler, or some other genocidal dictator

Just a suggestion, I think you can make your points without constantly 'going there'. A lot of death and disease in just modern times was caused by the unintended consequences of good intentions. In keeping with that, you'll probably never know the names of the individuals who indirectly killed thousands by manufacturing products which seemed useful & were in great demand, made some people rich, and were at the time assumed to be safe. This isn't the thread to compare who were the biggest murderers in history, however.

The goose has gotten fat​

On caviar in fancy bars​

And subprime loans​

And broken homes​

Is this the life, the holy grail?​

It's not enough that we succeed​

We still need others to fail​

​

Fear, fear drives the mills of modern man​

Fear keeps us all in line​

Fear of all those foreigners​

Fear of all their crimes​

Is this the life we really want? (want, want, want, want)​

It surely must be so​

For this is a democracy and what we all say goes​

​

And every time a student is run over by a tank​

And every time a pirate's dog is forced to walk the plank​

Every time a Russian bride is advertised for sale​

And every time a journalist is left to rot in jail​

Every time a young girl's life is casually spent​

And every time a nincompoop becomes the president​

Every time somebody dies reaching for their keys​

And every time that Greenland falls in the fucking sea is because​

All of us, the blacks and whites​

Chicanos, Asians, every type of ethnic group​

Even folks from Guadeloupe, the old, the young​

Toothless hags, super models, actors, fags, bleeding hearts​

Football stars, men in bars, washerwomen, tailors, tarts​

Grandmas, grandpas, uncles, aunts​

Friends, relations, homeless tramps​

Clerics, truckers, cleaning ladies​

Ants, maybe not ants​

Why not ants?​

Well because it's true​

The ants don't have enough IQ to differentiate between​

The pain that other people feel​

And well, for instance, cutting leaves​

Or crawling across windowsills in search of open treacle tins​

So, like the ants, are we just dumb?​

Is that why we don't feel or see?​

Or are we all just numbed out on reality TV?​

​

So, every time the curtain falls​

Every time the curtain falls on some forgotten life​

It is because we all stood by, silent and indifferent​

It's normal ... - "Is This the Life We Really Want?", lyrics by Roger Waters​

 

[Wildchildx11]

Just a suggestion, I think you can make your points without constantly 'going there'. A lot of death and disease in just modern times was caused by the unintended consequences of good intentions. In keeping with that, you'll probably never know the names of the individuals who indirectly killed thousands by manufacturing products which seemed useful & were in great demand, made some people rich, and were at the time assumed to be safe. This isn't the thread to compare who were the biggest murderers in history, however.

The goose has gotten fat​

On caviar in fancy bars​

And subprime loans​

And broken homes​

Is this the life, the holy grail?​

It's not enough that we succeed​

We still need others to fail​

​

Fear, fear drives the mills of modern man​

Fear keeps us all in line​

Fear of all those foreigners​

Fear of all their crimes​

Is this the life we really want? (want, want, want, want)​

It surely must be so​

For this is a democracy and what we all say goes​

​

And every time a student is run over by a tank​

And every time a pirate's dog is forced to walk the plank​

Every time a Russian bride is advertised for sale​

And every time a journalist is left to rot in jail​

Every time a young girl's life is casually spent​

And every time a nincompoop becomes the president​

Every time somebody dies reaching for their keys​

And every time that Greenland falls in the fucking sea is because​

All of us, the blacks and whites​

Chicanos, Asians, every type of ethnic group​

Even folks from Guadeloupe, the old, the young​

Toothless hags, super models, actors, fags, bleeding hearts​

Football stars, men in bars, washerwomen, tailors, tarts​

Grandmas, grandpas, uncles, aunts​

Friends, relations, homeless tramps​

Clerics, truckers, cleaning ladies​

Ants, maybe not ants​

Why not ants?​

Well because it's true​

The ants don't have enough IQ to differentiate between​

The pain that other people feel​

And well, for instance, cutting leaves​

Or crawling across windowsills in search of open treacle tins​

So, like the ants, are we just dumb?​

Is that why we don't feel or see?​

Or are we all just numbed out on reality TV?​

​

So, every time the curtain falls​

Every time the curtain falls on some forgotten life​

It is because we all stood by, silent and indifferent​

It's normal ... - "Is This the Life We Really Want?", lyrics by Roger Waters​

I know I can make my points without going there, but I don't really have delusions of being any other dictator in a past life. I think it may tie into Jungism in the collective consciousness of the Germans.

I don't think that any other dictator is mythologicalized or deiefied to the extent of Hitler where due to the atrocities of the holocaust, and I'm not defending them, he's become much like a psychological voldemort where you can't even acknowledge that he does represent an aspect of the psyche which causes people to be capable of evil.

I think I'm really trying to understand this aspect of my psyche because I'm trying to develop a firm backing in universal salvation and Hitler is usually brought up when people think of evil people throughout history.

Post automatically merged: May 8, 2024

All I'm saying is that it would be a lot less complicated if Vlad Dracula was my shadow, and I'm not sure if I should integrate it, or seek to understand it and resist it, but It feels like it would be lying to myself to bring up another figure as my shadow self.

Just saying that I had delusions based on being Hitler in a past life, which I acknowledge are delusions or that Hitler represents my shadow when doing shadow work, making people uncomfortable represents the power he as a symbol has among the collective psyche.

 

[HoldAll]

I know I can make my points without going there, but I don't really have delusions of being any other dictator in a past life. I think it may tie into Jungism in the collective consciousness of the Germans.

I don't think that any other dictator is mythologicalized or deiefied to the extent of Hitler where due to the atrocities of the holocaust, and I'm not defending them, he's become much like a psychological voldemort where you can't even acknowledge that he does represent an aspect of the psyche which causes people to be capable of evil.

I think I'm really trying to understand this aspect of my psyche because I'm trying to develop a firm backing in universal salvation and Hitler is usually brought up when people think of evil people throughout history.

Post automatically merged: May 8, 2024

All I'm saying is that it would be a lot less complicated if Vlad Dracula was my shadow, and I'm not sure if I should integrate it, or seek to understand it and resist it, but It feels like it would be lying to myself to bring up another figure as my shadow self.

Just saying that I had delusions based on being Hitler in a past life, which I acknowledge are delusions or that Hitler represents my shadow when doing shadow work, making people uncomfortable represents the power he as a symbol has among the collective psyche.

I notice that you originally started this thread with a thought about society's general inability to acknowledge its darker side but now you're back to discussing your own Shadow and your particular private demons again. Wouldn't it be an ideal opportunity to get away from your own personal problems for a while and return to the original idea behind your thread, don't you think?

 

[Taudefindi]

What I really see way more in the world is the glorification if everything that is slightly "dark"

Just like the allure of the freedom and wildness of the werewolf(a symbol of the animal side taking control over the "civilized human"), what is considered prohibited or dangerous always attracts the interest of people.

You can even see such thing from True Crime fans, their adoration for all the darkness from criminals.Or the internet love for gothics, despite the prejudice they suffered(and still do).

Is this glorification because we repress these aspects of us, and they represent meaning on a deeper level?

Despite the conscious and rational side telling people to obey the laws and be good citizens, I don't doubt that many of them truly want to be able to let out their darkest sides.But they don't know how to do so safely, so they keep repressing.

I think people just want to express all their sides, but society says "no"(with reason because some sides may be cruel or dangerous to others).

 

[pixel_fortune]

Certainly with magicians and witches - Hekate and Hel, other death and underworld god/desses, have become incredibly popular.

Of course, "shadow" doesn't mean darkness and death. It means whatever part of yourself you're not facing. For a lot of women who have struggled to be taken seriously, when they were young, they suppressed any interests that were frivolous and girly. If they cared about celebrity gossip they never, ever showed it, because they didn't want to be pigeon-holed. So a lot of women of my age, their shadow is hyperfemme, girly stuff. (That's part of why the Barbie movie was so popular - it was cathartic, finally women of a certain era having an outlet to say, I actually love pink and fashion and silliness).

These things are cyclical and generational - what a previous generation embraced becomes cringy (making it potentially shadow material, if you don't want to admit liking something cringey).

Since someone's shadow is, by definition, suppressed, it's pretty hard to tell what someone else's shadow is. The more heterogenous a society is, the more varied its shadow will be. It's a lot easier to gauge whether someone's suppressing a shadow in a monoculture, because there's so much overlap in what should be suppressed.

I think a lot of the people who appear to be embracing their shadow (with the goth-type interests) are actually just badly mistaken about what part of themselves they are embarrassed of

 

[Taudefindi]

making it potentially shadow material, if you don't want to admit liking something cringey

The cringe is in the eyes of others, and if you let yourself be guided by their opinions you'll be miserable.

Since someone's shadow is, by definition, suppressed, it's pretty hard to tell what someone else's shadow is.

I think this is why I liked psychology books when I was a teen.Because those books made me start dealing with my own shadow, even if superficially.

It's a lot easier to gauge whether someone's suppressing a shadow in a monoculture, because there's so much overlap in what should be suppressed.

Like many Asian countries that have a homogeneous society, they repress the individual, the different, so it's easier to figure out what would be the "dark sides/shadow" of such people.

 

[Xenophon]

The cringe is in the eyes of others, and if you let yourself be guided by their opinions you'll be miserable.



I think this is why I liked psychology books when I was a teen.Because those books made me start dealing with my own shadow, even if superficially.



Like many Asian countries that have a homogeneous society, they repress the individual, the different, so it's easier to figure out what would be the "dark sides/shadow" of such people.

Yeah, I've spent a third of my rather long life in one of them repressive societies. Gods forbid there be a functional culture and Volk left on Earth. Places with damned little crime, mental illness, or everyday lunacy. Saving the West from "repression" you killed your own culture and peoples and now, witness Biden's remarks on Japan, you ghouls have what's left of man's kinds in your sights. Do the planet a favor: just die of the poison you ingested; don't peddle it abroad.

 

[Lil_h0miie]

I've received a lot of therapy, I'm very self-aware. I've been in therapy since I was 7, in and out of hospitals, DBT, CBT, EMDR, I've had it all, I guess it's a weird thing to be grateful for, but having to learn this insight from an early childhood give me a lot of benefit in Magickal workings.


I think that a lot of conflicts in modern day society, are as a result of a reluctance to acknowledge the darker aspects of the psyche, I do have some pretty weird and uncomfortable delusions which as a conflict of this psyche, a lot of them involve thinking or feeling that I'm going to end up causing some kind of cataclysmic event against my own will, when I don't really want to destroy. This battle between good and evil, or order and chaos represent some pretty deep meaning on a primordial level of the consciousness.

One thing I've noticed in therapy and among therapists especially, is that there is a tendency to ignore, or be dismissive of the darker aspects of the psyche, I try to mention and process some of these delusions and there is this uncomfortably, or tendency to dismiss it. I know I'm not the Beast in the book of Revelations, I know I'm not Hitler, or some other genocidal dictator, I know I'm not going to be responsible for causing or influencing a genocide, but I have some pretty vivid delusions and fears over repressing these aspects of the psyche. I want to get down to the nitty gritty, the ugliness of myself. Working on myself isn't all love and light, peace and happiness.


It's kind of like how society views death, I think a lot of modern day social problems are due to this tendency to completely neglect these aspects of the psyche. Crime, murder, genocide, war, anger, rage, depression, hopelessness. They are the shadow coming out unconsciously because we neglect it instead of being aware of it.

On to the primary discussion topic, I've thought about including this in Left Hand Path, but it probably fits better here. Does there need to be a change in our cultural understanding in terms of how we view and understand these topics, especially among practitioners of therapy, health clinicians, etc? Instead of ignoring the shadow and neglecting it, should we view it as not fighting against it and opposing it, but learning to work with it and alongside it?

The topic when mentioning some of my unconscious fears usually goes something like this:


"I have delusions that I'm going to be responsible for a genocide in this life"
Therapist gets noticibly uncomfortable "Oh, let's work on and practice mindfulness

Mindfulness isn't what I need, it's just pushing them aside, I need to learn to understand and comprehend my fears.

i dont understand a whole lot on shadow work or magical workings, but i can agree that suppressing desires or fears can lead to very disturbing sad, and/or unnatural situations that could have been avoided, if given proper medical treatment or care. But a lot of therapists, governments, etc. only see such cases of people needing mental help as a way to make money, and manipulate situations so they can make the most money and if mentally ill people can't get help or have people that care about them and become unable to take care of themselves they become homeless and hooked on drugs. maybe you have such unconscious fears of mass genocide because you have possibly been taken advantage of by these greedy corporations that fuel this cycle?

the reason you might find therapist's becoming uncomfortable when you say certain things, is a reflection of humans need for safety and understanding and when they cant understand something they become afraid and its viewed as dangerous or potentially life threatening. from an evolutionary perspective, this was a survival instinct that our ancestors used to avoid life threatening situations, avoiding whats unknown was usually far safer. The amygdala can actually activate without receiving complete information, meaning something even remotely resembling a threat is enough to activate the amygdala and get the rest of your body working towards survival. its natural to fear things that we are unsure of will cause us harm or not. Therapists usually follow what they have been taught to follow and their practices are often formulaic, so when someone says something they are unfamiliar with they become afraid. in my opinion and personal experiences its actually better to connect with like minded individuals who can better understand where you're coming from. therapist often misdiagnosis, over diagnose medication, dont provide proper treatment at all. And honestly some people cant and will never fit into society and be able to function normal or have a normal life and family no matter how much help they recieve and try to better themselves and there should be a proper place for them ( serial killers, pedophiles, etc.) but most people won't even come out to say anything because of fear of how they'll be punished and shunned from society.

 

[Accipeveldare]

I've received a lot of therapy, I'm very self-aware. I've been in therapy since I was 7, in and out of hospitals, DBT, CBT, EMDR, I've had it all, I guess it's a weird thing to be grateful for, but having to learn this insight from an early childhood give me a lot of benefit in Magickal workings.


I think that a lot of conflicts in modern day society, are as a result of a reluctance to acknowledge the darker aspects of the psyche, I do have some pretty weird and uncomfortable delusions which as a conflict of this psyche, a lot of them involve thinking or feeling that I'm going to end up causing some kind of cataclysmic event against my own will, when I don't really want to destroy. This battle between good and evil, or order and chaos represent some pretty deep meaning on a primordial level of the consciousness.

One thing I've noticed in therapy and among therapists especially, is that there is a tendency to ignore, or be dismissive of the darker aspects of the psyche, I try to mention and process some of these delusions and there is this uncomfortably, or tendency to dismiss it. I know I'm not the Beast in the book of Revelations, I know I'm not Hitler, or some other genocidal dictator, I know I'm not going to be responsible for causing or influencing a genocide, but I have some pretty vivid delusions and fears over repressing these aspects of the psyche. I want to get down to the nitty gritty, the ugliness of myself. Working on myself isn't all love and light, peace and happiness.


It's kind of like how society views death, I think a lot of modern day social problems are due to this tendency to completely neglect these aspects of the psyche. Crime, murder, genocide, war, anger, rage, depression, hopelessness. They are the shadow coming out unconsciously because we neglect it instead of being aware of it.

On to the primary discussion topic, I've thought about including this in Left Hand Path, but it probably fits better here. Does there need to be a change in our cultural understanding in terms of how we view and understand these topics, especially among practitioners of therapy, health clinicians, etc? Instead of ignoring the shadow and neglecting it, should we view it as not fighting against it and opposing it, but learning to work with it and alongside it?

The topic when mentioning some of my unconscious fears usually goes something like this:


"I have delusions that I'm going to be responsible for a genocide in this life"
Therapist gets noticibly uncomfortable "Oh, let's work on and practice mindfulness"

Mindfulness isn't what I need, it's just pushing them aside, I need to learn to understand and comprehend my fears.

I have got to agree with this. I have a history of depression and anxiety throughout my life due to past trauma during childhood and therapists have always told me to try to forget these things. That isn't going to help. I must confront my past fears and my new ones in order to help myself. Not take stupid pills that make me feel emotionally numb or go to a psych ward on "suicide watch"

 

[OberonFromTheHills]

Of course, "shadow" doesn't mean darkness and death. It means whatever part of yourself you're not facing. For a lot of women who have struggled to be taken seriously, when they were young, they suppressed any interests that were frivolous and girly. If they cared about celebrity gossip they never, ever showed it, because they didn't want to be pigeon-holed. So a lot of women of my age, their shadow is hyperfemme, girly stuff. (That's part of why the Barbie movie was so popular - it was cathartic, finally women of a certain era having an outlet to say, I actually love pink and fashion and silliness).

Thank you so much.

As you mention shadow from a jungian paradigm has been mixed with occultism to create ideas that are messed up.

Kindness can be a shadow if you are ashamed of it.
Angry can be a light if you are happy about it.