Idiocentric Ritual Circle

[theil]

In the early 2000s, I studied ceremonial magick focusing on casting circles under a native american shaman (i live in the southwest). He taught a general approach with East/Air, South/Fire, West/Water, North/Earth. Part of this training was contacting spirit allies for the cardinal directions with a casting as the final.

It's been years since I've needed to call on the directions and cast a circle. Invocation work hasn't been my focus.

I checked back in last week with my allies, and they're still there, willing to work with me, even the black snake i've had with me since a teenager. To the East is a rainbow serpent that shifts between translucent human and snake resting in clouds. The South is a dragon but now a "noble" dragon of flame. The West, a hooded ferryman in a boat, still offers a red rose. And in the West is a now a matured minotaur with the same golden plow resting at his side in a flat verdure field. Between them and me is a black snake circled around me.

Does anyone here work with directional allies?

 

[DiLoco_DelEted]

Cant say Im aware of any allies, I dont have sight like that.

 

[theil]

Cant say Im aware of any allies, I dont have sight like that.

I'm thinking mine might be a hinderance with divine entities...but we'll see.

 

[pixel_fortune]

I don't, but I know the Quareia system has you meeting "inner contacts" (allies) at the directional temples fairly early on in the course, if you were interested in reading about that (the coursework is freely available at quareia.com, directional contacts after in the Apprentice section but I can't remember which lesson)

Post automatically merged: Feb 10, 2024

(what do you mean by idiocentric btw? Or it's an autocorrect typo of idiosyncratic?)

 

[theil]

I don't, but I know the Quareia system has you meeting "inner contacts" (allies) at the directional temples fairly early on in the course, if you were interested in reading about that (the coursework is freely available at quareia.com, directional contacts after in the Apprentice section but I can't remember which lesson)

Post automatically merged: Feb 10, 2024

(what do you mean by idiocentric btw? Or it's an autocorrect typo of idiosyncratic?)

Oh, Thank you for a lead to follow. I'll check into it.
I meant idiocentric as a person's own way of doing something, doing something that's personalized, etc. Probably not the best word to use.

 

[DiLoco_DelEted]

I guess the LRP Evocation of the Archangels comes closest.

 

[theil]

I guess the LRP Evocation of the Archangels comes closest.

I thought there was something about that in ceremonial magick. Watchtowers?

 

[DiLoco_DelEted]

Opening and Closing by Watchtower. Can be done with or without involvement of Enochian.

 

[TheHummingbirdWizard]

In the early 2000s, I studied ceremonial magick focusing on casting circles under a native american shaman (i live in the southwest). He taught a general approach with East/Air, South/Fire, West/Water, North/Earth. Part of this training was contacting spirit allies for the cardinal directions with a casting as the final.

It's been years since I've needed to call on the directions and cast a circle. Invocation work hasn't been my focus.

I checked back in last week with my allies, and they're still there, willing to work with me, even the black snake i've had with me since a teenager. To the East is a rainbow serpent that shifts between translucent human and snake resting in clouds. The South is a dragon but now a "noble" dragon of flame. The West, a hooded ferryman in a boat, still offers a red rose. And in the West is a now a matured minotaur with the same golden plow resting at his side in a flat verdure field. Between them and me is a black snake circled around me.

Does anyone here work with directional allies?

We have to address a couple of things before I answer.

I. Shaman is not a NA term, it is of Tungus/Siberian and Northern Mongolian peoples.

II. No NA tradition uses the Greek elemental system. We don't use Fire, Earth, Air and Water like that. Now that is not to say they hadn't adapted that system to their own use or were teaching you a system that was appropriate for you to learn. However at face value these two things are major red flags.

To answer your question, yes, there are always spiritual allies at my quarters and who they are depends on where I wish to operate.

Post automatically merged: Feb 10, 2024

Opening and Closing by Watchtower. Can be done with or without involvement of Enochian.

The watchtower is the Enochian tablet so, no, it really can't. You can't very well open by the watchtower if you aren't working with the watchtower. However, yes, you can use a striped down version without the Enochian to open and dedicate your space but it won't be by watchtower. I suppose you could call to the Watchtower s however, as in Wicca, without having a representation thereof or calling to the specific names therein.

 

[pixel_fortune]

I meant idiocentric as a person's own way of doing something, doing something that's personalized, etc. Probably not the best word to use.

Oh yep! No that's the right word, it's just spelled differently - "idiosyncratic"

"Idiocentric" means individualistic in a sort of "doesn't care about other people" way - and it seemed kind of a harsh way to describe your own practice!

But idiosyncratic makes complete sense

(I don't care about something being misspelled , I only was confused because the misspelling is also a real word that means a different thing. But I understand now, thank you!)

Post automatically merged: Feb 10, 2024

I know Jason Miller uses Hekatean directional guardians (they're underworld-y and have animal heads) - that's in a rite in his Protection and Reversal Magic. But I don't think he really interacts with them besides calling them to the quarters

Similarly the Greek Magical Papyri has directional creatures but they are really different aspects of the PGM Helios, not separate entities. I use them sometimes. They are:
East: ERBĒTH. A winged dragon with a crown of clouds rising above the horizon.
North: SESENGENBARPHARANGĒS. An infant child sitting atop a blossoming lotus.
West: ABLANATHANALBA. A crocodile with the tail of a snake arising from the waters.
South: LERTHEXANAX. A falcon with its wings stretching out to their full wingspan.
(But go counterclockwise and switch North and South if you're in the Southern Hemisphere)

Digital Ambler gives a version of Liber Resh with these:

The sunrise invocation of Erbēth:

ΙO ERBĒTH, you who are Helios who rise now from the realm of DAMNAMENEUS [the Depths] into the realm of AKRAMMAKHAMAREI [the Heights], who whose form is a winged dragon with a crown of clouds, take your place in the East as you move from the North, quelling all discord as you bring bright force to dark space!
For I am MALPARTALKHŌ [something like Luminous One?] standing before you, calling upon you who are ERBĒTH!

The noon invocation of Lertheksanaks:

ΙO LERTHEXANAX, you who are Helios who surmount now onto the highest heights of the realm of AKRAMMAKHAMAREI, you whose form is a royal falcon ringed in golden fire, take your place in the South as you move from the East, sending upon us radiant fire and life-giving heat!
For I am MALPARTALKHŌ standing before you, calling upon you who are LERTHEXANAX!

The sunset invocation of Ablanathanalba:

ΙO ABLANATHANALBA, you who are Helios who sink now from the realm of AKRAMMAKHAMAREI into the realm of DAMNAMENEUS, you whose form is a snake-tailed crocodile peering above the waves, take your place in the West as you move from the South, shedding cold water as you cleanse hot day with cool night!
For I am MALPARTALKHŌ standing before you, calling upon you who are ABLANATHANALBA!

The midnight invocation of Sesengenbarpharangēs:

ΙO SESENGENBARPHARANGĒS, you who are Helios who settle now into the darkest depths of the realm of DAMNAMENEUS, you whose form is the holy infant upon the lotus seat, take your place in the North as you move from the West, reborn as king from the virgin womb of the world!
For I am MALPARTALKHŌ standing before you, calling upon you who are SESENGENBARPHARANGĒS!

 

[theil]

We have to address a couple of things before I answer.

I. Shaman is not a NA term, it is of Tungus/Siberian and Northern Mongolian peoples.

II. No NA tradition uses the Greek elemental system. We don't use Fire, Earth, Air and Water like that. Now that is not to say they hadn't adapted that system to their own use or were teaching you a system that was appropriate for you to learn. However at face value these two things are major red flags.

To answer your question, yes, there are always spiritual allies at my quarters and who they are depends on where I wish to operate.

Post automatically merged: Feb 10, 2024

The watchtower is the Enochian tablet so, no, it really can't. You can't very well open by the watchtower if you aren't working with the watchtower. However, yes, you can use a striped down version without the Enochian to open and dedicate your space but it won't be by watchtower. I suppose you could call to the Watchtower s however, as in Wicca, without having a representation thereof or calling to the specific names therein.

Thank you. That helps answers some of my questions.

This person of the Cherokee nation, for whatever reason, identified more as a shamanic witch than a medicine man. He was of mixed heritage. He did keep the tradition of tobacco smoke as a part of his ritual practice during new and/or full moon gatherings.

I remember (this is some 20 yrs ago) him saying something about watchtowers but that was outside the scope of the class and no one felt called to use them. You mentioning wicca, I'm not surprised he mentioned them now.

Post automatically merged: Feb 10, 2024

ΙO ERBĒTH, you who are Helios who rise now from the realm of DAMNAMENEUS [the Depths] into the realm of AKRAMMAKHAMAREI [the Heights], who whose form is a winged dragon with a crown of clouds, take your place in the East as you move from the North, quelling all discord as you bring bright force to dark space!
For I am MALPARTALKHŌ [something like Luminous One?] standing before you, calling upon you who are ERBĒTH!

This gave me chills. Beautiful invocations as a whole. Another lead to follow. Thank you

I know Jason Miller uses Hekatean directional guardians (they're underworld-y and have animal heads) - that's in a rite in his Protection and Reversal Magic. But I don't think he really interacts with them besides calling them to the quarters

I'm a pinch familiar with Jason Miller and knew he works with Hecate. I'll see what i can find regarding Hekatean dir. guardians. Sounds fascinating.

The androgynous hood boat ferrier giving me an invitation of the rose to the west, I've always had a strong connection to them than the others other than my snake familiar (guess i need to acknowledge to myself it is). I did some necromancy spirit work with them but at the time seemed too morbid. I'd rather do other things at the time calling my attention than working with the dead. Now looking towards the twilight of my own life (5 fold probably of morbidly in 10 yrs max) necromantic work seems less morbid but more like clearly the terrain before settling in and building a home.

Hecate might be a entity i need to seriously research and those dealing with the underworld. I love a good direction in research.

 

[TheHummingbirdWizard]

Thank you. That helps answers some of my questions.

This person of the Cherokee nation, for whatever reason, identified more as a shamanic witch than a medicine man. He was of mixed heritage. He did keep the tradition of tobacco smoke as a part of his ritual practice during new and/or full moon gatherings.

I remember (this is some 20 yrs ago) him saying something about watchtowers but that was outside the scope of the class and no one felt called to use them. You mentioning wicca, I'm not surprised he mentioned them now.

Post automatically merged: Feb 10, 2024

This gave me chills. Beautiful invocations as a whole. Another lead to follow. Thank you

I'm a pinch familiar with Jason Miller and knew he works with Hecate. I'll see what i can find regarding Hekatean dir. guardians. Sounds fascinating.

The androgynous hood boat ferrier giving me an invitation of the rose to the west, I've always had a strong connection to them than the others other than my snake familiar (guess i need to acknowledge to myself it is). I did some necromancy spirit work with them but at the time seemed too morbid. I'd rather do other things at the time calling my attention than working with the dead. Now looking towards the twilight of my own life (5 fold probably of morbidly in 10 yrs max) necromantic work seems less morbid but more like clearly the terrain before settling in and building a home.

Hecate might be a entity i need to seriously research and those dealing with the underworld. I love a good direction in research.

Fraud,
We don't have witches or shamans. If they are practicing witchcraft in the side that's fine but they should not be presented as one and the same. It isn't uncommon for those of mixed heritage to practices the folk traditions of multiple sides of their family, however again proper representation is important and you wouldn't catch us referring to our native practices as either witchcraft or shamanism.

It is more than possible that they are trying to reclaim their ancestral practices and do not know any better. The few legitimate books that are out there regarding Cherokee practices, often suffer from anthropological trespasses and publishing deception. For instance there is one book that while otherwise excellent, dies mistakenly use the word witchcraft. To that point the word Atsisgili or Sgili was mistakenly translated as witch do to their similar hallmarks, and as such the term witch was partially adopted early on fir lack of better communication but it wasn't long before this oversight was correct. Once we learned the history and what they were actually saying of our practices, we stopped using the term. See it had been thought originally that it was just English for our connection of Sgili.

The other red flag is that we do not have full moon gatherings, they are held on the new moon. The individual may indeed have Cherokee heritage, I can't say, but it sounds like they are using neopaganism as a model and just adding what they think is a Cherokee flavor.

 

[theil]

Fraud,
We don't have witches or shamans. If they are practicing witchcraft in the side that's fine but they should not be presented as one and the same. It isn't uncommon for those of mixed heritage to practices the folk traditions of multiple sides of their family, however again proper representation is important and you wouldn't catch us referring to our native practices as either witchcraft or shamanism.

It is more than possible that they are trying to reclaim their ancestral practices and do not know any better. The few legitimate books that are out there regarding Cherokee practices, often suffer from anthropological trespasses and publishing deception. For instance there is one book that while otherwise excellent, dies mistakenly use the word witchcraft. To that point the word Atsisgili or Sgili was mistakenly translated as witch do to their similar hallmarks, and as such the term witch was partially adopted early on fir lack of better communication but it wasn't long before this oversight was correct. Once we learned the history and what they were actually saying of our practices, we stopped using the term. See it had been thought originally that it was just English for our connection of Sgili.

The other red flag is that we do not have full moon gatherings, they are held on the new moon. The individual may indeed have Cherokee heritage, I can't say, but it sounds like they are using neopaganism as a model and just adding what they think is a Cherokee flavor.

This kind of hostility is something I expect from occult forums. Please get off your high horse. These are recollections from years ago and beside the point.

Post automatically merged: Feb 11, 2024

Using fraud right out the gate made the rest of your remarks invisible to me. How can you say fraud about someone based on someone else's recollection of a tradition they/I didn't care much about other than learning basic ritual? I was studying it in the context of incorporating ritual in my sigil chaos magick practice.

Cooling down now, I can understand how this might be a topic that triggers you, but I doubt I'd read anything else you have to say.

 

[TheHummingbirdWizard]

This kind of hostility is something I expect from occult forums. Please get off your high horse. These are recollections from years ago and beside the point.

Post automatically merged: Feb 11, 2024

Using fraud right out the gate made the rest of your remarks invisible to me. How can you say fraud about someone based on someone else's recollection of a tradition they/I didn't care much about other than learning basic ritual? I was studying it in the context of incorporating ritual in my sigil chaos magick practice.

Cooling down now, I can understand how this might be a topic that triggers you, but I doubt I'd read anything else you have to say.

Get off your privileged horse. I have absolutely no interest in you trying to play the victim card or making me out to be the "angry Indian". You have not begun to see hostility. Our cultures, as native people, are constantly appropriated, misrepresented and regurgitated as new age bullshit.

Just last night/this morning I came across a YouTube video where new-age hippies were taking Cherokee words out of context as well as talking about Kachinas (which is not even the right tribe) and sure enough they went off into star seed territory.

Newagers have twisted Hopi stories and prophecies, coming up with star seeds and now people are starting to know that's bastardized but are saying star seeds are Hopi...no star seed is what the bastardized concept is called.

Me being firm and defending traditions we consider sacred from charlatans is not being "triggered". You don't give a damn because it doesn't affect you. God forbid you were so agitated by someone saying something you didn't want to hear because it was such an inconvenience to you to think about something unpleasant. How spoiled as to think when a response doesn't go as invisioned, the other person must clearly be hostile for correcting the aftermath of pasts wrongs. I even gave counter arguments in their favor after saying they sounded like a fraud; and perhaps the fault is with you and your recollection but frankly I don't care being you are acting like a fucking asshole.

Post automatically merged: Feb 13, 2024

Way to enable cultural erase much be attacking me and trying to ascribe a tone to what I e said Instead of actually addressing what I said. You don't like that your experience might have been at your, and my, expenses and instead of having a civil discussion about it you go right to invalidating my voice as a native person, attempting to undermine my character while bolstering yourself as if you had high ground talking about a "high horse".

That is weak... I'm sorry this forum wasn't the privileged and entitled safe space you are looking for. You know what, if you think I'm a right bastard I wouldn't recommend calling up any spirits.

 

[Vandheer]

This kind of hostility is something I expect from occult forums

Should this one become an echo chamber where everyone is saying yes? I am not getting your point here.

Cooling down now, I can understand how this might be a topic that triggers you, but I doubt I'd read anything else you have to say.

Do you not see the irony here?

 

[theil]

I won't be replying to this thread here on out.

Post automatically merged: Feb 14, 2024

"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblins of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines. With consistency a great soul has simply nothing to do." R.W. Emerson, essay: Self-Reliance.

With that said, I might as well actually continue this thread. Initially, I wanted this thread to be about sharing or exploring how others work with directional allies, but got derailed. I will get back on topic, but I'll address a couple of points.
1.) It's important how we talk to someone. Please don't begin a dialog with a word that's loaded with negativity and derision, especially for folks in esoteric pursuits historically. Begin by asking questions, then keep asking more to steer the conversation towards your inquiry, while correcting the person in the same manner you would appreciate being corrected or guided for a clearer understanding. Don't assume the person giving information from 20 years ago will get details right. Example: Did they really perform ceremonies during both new and full moons? Etc. When a stranger calls their teacher a fraudster, imagine how that'll go down when the stranger leads with "FRAUD".
2.) Irony is life.

Now, back on topic. I posted on my profile, which I'll post here as well, not quite but close visual representation of my directional allies. I found by using AI generative imaging to help visualize my allies sharped how I really see them. AI can't get it 100 or 90% right but it can get in the ballpark and the differences are noticeable.

https://imgur.com/PF288O2

If anyone hasn't tried, it's interesting to see what comes up with prompts for your allies.

 

[Xenophon]

Oh, Thank you for a lead to follow. I'll check into it.
I meant idiocentric as a person's own way of doing something, doing something that's personalized, etc. Probably not the best word to use.

"Idiocentric" might be a coinage, but anyone with a bit of education should have no trouble sussing it out. Keep using it, it's a useful term.