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Mental Weakness

IllusiveOwl

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There's a lot of charge around the word "weakness", especially with guys. Some people say it isn't a choice, others say it's laziness or apathy, maybe ignorance. Given that a lot of us on this forum practice elaborate and demanding disciplines, I thought some conversation around the idea of mundane psychological weakness would be interesting.

The Seven deadly sins are a snappy, easy-to-remember list of weaknesses. A person feels the pang to eat often, and they give in to the point of 400 pounds (yes, I know some people are obese by no fault of their own), a person feels the pang of rage and they hit a kid, a person desires wealth and pushes their elderly parent down the stairs for inheritance. It's worth noting there are a lot of fat, angry, and violent people in America.

What makes people give in? Is it weakness? Is it their fault, can they be blamed? What makes a person strong? Does morality equate to strength? Does strength create the space for morality to come in, or is strength impossible without morality?
 

tomi

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hey IllusiveOwl

this is a great heavy gravitas topic !
I'm positive there are smarter individuals than myself on this forum here which can weigh in more insight to this

when you mentioned the term seven deadly sins it reminded me of the david fincher movie se7en quote from morgan freeman
BTW awesome movie!

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I didn't say I was different or better. I'm not. Hell, I sympathize; I sympathize completely. Apathy is the solution. I mean, it's easier to lose yourself in drugs than it is to cope with life. It's easier to steal what you want than it is to earn it. It's easier to beat a child than it is to raise it. Hell, love costs: it takes effort and work.

I live in the western hemisphere of the world so my experience is narrow minded If i was to give a quick reply it would be currently for the majority of people digital and mechanical technology fields have a far more importance of attention to advance and interact with than the considerations of balancing it with " personal growth " " to know thy self " to be a useful healthy strong smart individual who are integrated in harmony with the bio diverse world/universe which we are all sharing together.

there was a saying i heard not long ago which i liked and ponder over . nature can go on existing without humanity yet humanity cant go on without it.

maybe the hindu idea of there are cycles of change and currently on this planet humanity is experiencing kali yuga maybe theyre right ?
i dont know yet an interesting proposition to explain away the current state of affairs on the planet

perhaps if advancements in spiritual matters were given the same attention as the advancements of machinary and digital technologies
would create a world of having more understand of empathy for others a more harmonious intergration with the bio diverse universe
all are sharing together.

i might be completely wrong about what i wrote yet look forward to more of your ideas IllusiveOwl and others and have my world views expanded . very cool topic !!

all the best !
 

SkullTraill

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I hope this thread isn't a result of a fight with your partner who ended up calling you weak or something like that :cry:

Honestly, I think all these things are beyond subjective and necessarily individual. What makes you weak is different from what makes me weak.

Speaking for myself, I have real weaknesses. I try to be strong, but I am not always strong. And there are sometimes no words for me to describe what is making me weak, even if I am acutely aware of said weakness.

I think that's because we all think differently, and there are thoughts in all of our heads that cannot even be formulated into sentences in any language that trigger some chemical or physical response in my body that makes me weak. Same applies to some things that I am strong in.

When we say that your experiences make who you are, a lot of people agree. But I think there's more to us than just a sum of our experiences. There are both conscious and unconscious thoughts we have outside of external stimuli that can sometimes shape our psyche.
 

IllusiveOwl

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I hope this thread isn't a result of a fight with your partner who ended up calling you weak or something like that :cry:
My first impulse was to make a "your mother" joke here in response, but I don't want you to ban me again. This thread was inspired by someone making an ass out of themselves at a party I went to with my karate-boys.
there are thoughts in all of our heads that cannot even be formulated into sentences in any language that trigger some chemical or physical response in my body that makes me weak.
It's very interesting that you say this, I believe I understand what you mean. The complexities of our brain outpace our abilities to decipher what it's doing. Working, wordlessly and intuitively with these non-thoughts is an art in itself, you could say It's almost a magical feat.
i might be completely wrong about what i wrote yet look forward to more of your ideas IllusiveOwl and others and have my world views expanded . very cool topic !!
Thank you for your thoughtful contribution 🙏
 

Ziran

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There's a lot of charge around the word "weakness", especially with guys. Some people say it isn't a choice, others say it's laziness or apathy, maybe ignorance. Given that a lot of us on this forum practice elaborate and demanding disciplines, I thought some conversation around the idea of mundane psychological weakness would be interesting.

(y)

The Seven deadly sins are a snappy, easy-to-remember list of weaknesses. A person feels the pang to eat often, and they give in to the point of 400 pounds (yes, I know some people are obese by no fault of their own), a person feels the pang of rage and they hit a kid, a person desires wealth and pushes their elderly parent down the stairs for inheritance. It's worth noting there are a lot of fat, angry, and violent people in America.

What you're describing here is a lack of impulse control. The root cause of these poor choices is "haste". The remedy is pre-meditation so that in the moment, the individual is ready to react thoughtfully, having pre-considered the positive and negative consequences of the choice that is presenting itself to the individual.

What makes a person strong?

Big picture, there's two types of wise choices, two types of intellectual "strength" in the face of two types temptations. One type of strength is single focused. This is the strength of a parent who is charging into a burning building to save their children. Single focused. One motive. Save their lives. Nothing else matters. ( ... like the gom gabbar test from Dune. ) The temptation which produces the negative outcome, here, is to wait for the firefighters to arrive. The individual would need to silence all the other motivating influences in their heart-and-mind in order to take action ( or tolerate the discomfort ). The other type of strength comes from blending motives and compromise ( ... the reed submits to the wind, and prospers, becoming a wall against the wind, and triumphs. ) The temptation here is to make a rapid choice based on a single motive ( standing proud against the wind ) rather than balancing competing notions and accepting a short term loss for long term gains.

What makes people give in? Is it weakness? Is it their fault, can they be blamed? What makes a person strong? Does morality equate to strength? Does strength create the space for morality to come in, or is strength impossible without morality?

It depends of course.

In particular, in regard to impulse control and the examples you brought, the strength you are referring to is the confluence of conviction and pain-tolerance. These are both in-born human qualities of the personality, and/or, they can be cultivated.

In general, making wise choices requires knowing oneself and understanding one's surroundings, particularly the consequences of one's actions. Developing ( or thoughtfully adopting ) a moral code facilitates knowing oneself, and pre-meditating on the possible outcomes of difficult choices so that one can make a decision rapidly in the moment which conforms to the individual's desires. Lacking this, an individual can be either paralyzed by indecision, or, they will make a choice whose outcome doesn't conform to their desires.

However, wise choices are not always "thoughtful". Sometimes it's important to react and follow impulses in the form of seizing opportunity or taking immediate action in the face of a crisis before the conscious mind has fully wrapped itself around the circumstances and considered the options. The subconcious mind and the feelings ( understanding ) of the heart are much faster to respond than the concsious mind which is "making sense" of the sensory feedback it is receiving and processing. Making many good choices sometimes requires skipping over the concsious mind's desire for knowing and understanding in spite of the risks.

Where people seem to get into trouble is when they consistently follow their impulses when they would be better served with thoughtful consideration of the consequences, and/or, when they consistently ignore their impulses when they would be better served by listening to them.
 
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Xenophon

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There's a lot of charge around the word "weakness", especially with guys. Some people say it isn't a choice, others say it's laziness or apathy, maybe ignorance. Given that a lot of us on this forum practice elaborate and demanding disciplines, I thought some conversation around the idea of mundane psychological weakness would be interesting.

The Seven deadly sins are a snappy, easy-to-remember list of weaknesses. A person feels the pang to eat often, and they give in to the point of 400 pounds (yes, I know some people are obese by no fault of their own), a person feels the pang of rage and they hit a kid, a person desires wealth and pushes their elderly parent down the stairs for inheritance. It's worth noting there are a lot of fat, angry, and violent people in America.

What makes people give in? Is it weakness? Is it their fault, can they be blamed? What makes a person strong? Does morality equate to strength? Does strength create the space for morality to come in, or is strength impossible without morality?
Depends what one calls morality. The nazarene-based ethics most folk be saddled with would have it that weakness is not a matter of morality. Sterner codes would have it that weakness, whether congenital or acquired through indulgence, is itself immoral. Here in the suburbs, it'd be nasty mean of me to refuse you indulgence. There's plenty to go around. If we have to hump it to the next oases and I can't carry you, your weakness becomes a liability to all concerned. So circumstances decide? Not fully. If those suburbs give rise to a world full of few oases and long hikes, I'd say that their making weakness possible was always profoundly immoral. As a rule of thumb, whatever increases dependence on the kindness of strangers is deeply immoral. (Apologies to Blanch DuBois.)
 

NightWatchman95

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There's a lot of charge around the word "weakness", especially with guys. Some people say it isn't a choice, others say it's laziness or apathy, maybe ignorance. Given that a lot of us on this forum practice elaborate and demanding disciplines, I thought some conversation around the idea of mundane psychological weakness would be interesting.

The Seven deadly sins are a snappy, easy-to-remember list of weaknesses. A person feels the pang to eat often, and they give in to the point of 400 pounds (yes, I know some people are obese by no fault of their own), a person feels the pang of rage and they hit a kid, a person desires wealth and pushes their elderly parent down the stairs for inheritance. It's worth noting there are a lot of fat, angry, and violent people in America.

What makes people give in? Is it weakness? Is it their fault, can they be blamed? What makes a person strong? Does morality equate to strength? Does strength create the space for morality to come in, or is strength impossible without morality?
the most painful struggle i have ironically is i try so hard to be strong, it becomes a weakness when i end up hurting those i care about. its a frustrating paradox... sometimes caring to much can become indistinguishable from hate.
 

IllusiveOwl

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the most painful struggle i have ironically is i try so hard to be strong, it becomes a weakness when i end up hurting those i care about. its a frustrating paradox... sometimes caring to much can become indistinguishable from hate.
Real strength comes from effortlessness, to be "larger than life", Wu-Wei. Caring too much does nothing, you can water a flower more than nessecary, but that won't help it grow.
 

NightWatchman95

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Real strength comes from effortlessness, to be "larger than life", Wu-Wei. Caring too much does nothing, you can water a flower more than nessecary, but that won't help it grow.
be like water, flow into the ocean so you can move mountains with its waves.
 

IllusiveOwl

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be like water
bruce-lee-be-water.gif


I have heard under good authority that Bruce Lee was a bitch and would have gotten his ass kicked by a real Martial Artist.

I'm not sure what the rest of your message means, I'm just saying that the less you care, the more peace you have, peace builds foundation, and from that foundation inhuman strength can flow endlessly from you.
 

Morell

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What makes people give in? Is it weakness? Is it their fault, can they be blamed? What makes a person strong? Does morality equate to strength? Does strength create the space for morality to come in, or is strength impossible without morality?
Great topic.
For my two cents: sometimes it is really something that makes us weak: how our parents or society around us influences us can cause weakness. Manipulations are real thing,
But I think that even more that that it is not presence of something but rather lack of something: lack of knowledge and understanding of influences and proper response, lack of discipline and training, lack of self-knowledhge and self-control...

But it's not necessary something to be blamed for that we didn't learn yet, what it takes and how to overcome specific weakness. especially when it comes to from of weakness you face for the first time or one you don't realize that you have. (or way worse when you blame others or anything but yourself for your weakness)
And even if you learn, humans have that habit of forgetting stuff, even good stuff...
 
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