Modern Draconian tradition questions

[hungry_ghost]

I have some questions for people who study the temple of ascending flame's material because I'm studying the Nightside of Eden by Kenneth Grant and a lot of what he's saying about the draconian tradition is different than what's taught nowadays.

There's a possibility that I'm completely ignorant in my understandings. I have trouble understanding Grant's jargon but it's equally difficult trying to read in between the lines of Asenath Mason's dark poetry.

What I've gathered from Grant aside from trying to prove this or that with germatria, is the world we perceive is an illusion. Being is the only constant and Ain/nothingness is the source of creation. And the whole entire purpose of tapping into this nothingness is so you can access your true self - the godself. This God self is something you experience spiritually when you dissolve into nothingness. In order to understand it you must experience ego death and merge with it like all the eastern traditions teach.

So @ students of the temple of ascending flame

What's the purpose of raising your Kundalini if you're not trying to dissolve your ego and merge with the godhead/all/nothingness?

What exactly is Godhood? Are you speaking strictly from a mundane perspective or are you speaking from a spiritual perspective ( the understanding that All is one)?

Do you believe in an afterlife? If so then what exactly is that?

Thanks in advance to whoever clears this up if it gets cleared up. Lol I'm just tired of dark poetry and jargon atm. It sucks dealing with dyslexia and trying to read in between the lines on this stuff.

 

[hungry_ghost]

I just want to add that I understand the importance of balancing both the mundane and the spiritual. If balance is your explanation for Godhood then I would say Godhood is subjective.

 

[hungry_ghost]

Or is that the whole point of Godhood. It's a subjective thing and it's just about how well I treat myself while I'm here?

 

[Öwnchef]

It is possible that you are mixing up mysticism and magic. While both know there is something superior out there, they are acting completly different towards it. Mysticists want to face and unite with it. That is their highest goal. If it doesn't work out they plan to go for rebirth to hopefully succeed one day. This approach has a god that is highly subjective.
Magicians have the tendency to be god themselves - here and now. Their approach is rather playful and humorous. With that worldview however they are dealing with a way more substantial and real image of "god".

 

[hungry_ghost]

It is possible that you are mixing up mysticism and magic. While both know there is something superior out there, they are acting completly different towards it. Mysticists want to face and unite with it. That is their highest goal. If it doesn't work out they plan to go for rebirth to hopefully succeed one day. This approach has a god that is highly subjective.
Magicians have the tendency to be god themselves - here and now. Their approach is rather playful and humorous. With that worldview however they are dealing with a way more substantial and real image of "god".

I would agree with you but they work with the Qliphoth. So working with the Qliphoth with no goal in mind other than material gain seems silly to me. It's like why go through the hassle of raising your kundalini if you're going to exalt your ego anyways? It makes no sense.

 

[Öwnchef]

Absolutely. They are doing it wrong there. Look at a tarot card in the mirror. Or turn it upside down. It doesn't lose its colour, does it? The Emperor, his legs forming the number of Jupiter, which is good. The Hanged Man, same symbol, upside down. Good? Well, not so good, I suppose.
The whole idea of "you gotta be bad to succeed" is wrong. It is senseless and a helpless way of trying to make sense of the own failing.

25 years ago I worked with a guy doing shadow runes. Absolute nonsense. Nothing ever worked. Complete bullshit.

 

[hungry_ghost]

Speaking from an ignorant western perspective, if I achieve Godhood - the kind that those fools at balg claim to have, the first thing I'm going to do is manifest some feet pics by Asenath Mason. I'm gonna go all out to. I'm not talking some vanilla shit. I want to see what they look like in a banana split.

 

[Öwnchef]

Speaking from an ignorant western perspective, if I achieve Godhood - the kind that those fools at balg claim to have, the first thing I'm going to do is manifest some feet pics by Asenath Mason. I'm gonna go all out to. I'm not talking some vanilla shit. I want to see what they look like in a banana split.

Exactly. Tbh the first thing I did was checking if she ever did any pron.

And here we go. I am RHP only when fapping. Problem officer? We are high energetic people, so what?

Falsehood, it will be all about falsehood. Leaving it behind. Burning it. Then, next step: Burning the remaining residues of falsehood. That is the second hardest part of gaining Godhead.

The hardest part will be then to make a fool out of you. To move forward as a magus and a fool simultanously.

"There must be some way out of here
Said the joker to the thief ...

But you and I, we've been through that
And this is not our fate
So let us not talk falsely now
The hour is getting late."

 

[Konsciencia]

So, let me get this straight, in order to achieve Godhood, and reunite with The All. We must get rid of the ego? Is that what it is? If so, I can honestly say, that I Love every aspect of myself, including my ego. A lot of Spiritual people focus, on getting rid of the ego, but to me it's like splitting myself up.

One thing that I know, is that the ego comes with you after death, but it won't react like how it's reacting in the physical world. You see, the ego it's what gives us our individualization, and uniqueness. I have to be honest with myself, and Love is honesty. Love, loves even the most gruesome things. Yes... Love has a Dark side as well. At least, here on Earth we experience fucked up shit.

 

[hungry_ghost]

In order to experience it you have to dissolve the ego. It is my understanding that the ego comes with you to the astral plane until you experience the second death. Afterwards you return to the source and get reincarnated.

 

[Roma]

There are two intelligences referred to as "ego". The lower ego operates the human defense system. Its primary asset is its self-esteem. It hates to be wrong.

That lower ego has a fundamental role. It forces the human personality to get its act together so as to protect the ego (personal will). The personal will operates on mental subplane 5.4, the top level of the personality

The personal will likes to tell the human that either the PW does not exist, or that the PW is the real human.

By first stage enlightenment, the human has learned to control all the mental subplanes and the personal will is transformed from defense to creativity

In some areas of the WET, the higher mental body with its overlighting intelligence is called the Ego.

 

[Konsciencia]

In order to experience it you have to dissolve the ego. It is my understanding that the ego comes with you to the astral plane until you experience the second death. Afterwards you return to the source and get reincarnated.

Gotcha.

 

[Öwnchef]

So, let me get this straight, in order to achieve Godhood, and reunite with The All. We must get rid of the ego? Is that what it is? If so, I can honestly say, that I Love every aspect of myself, including my ego. A lot of Spiritual people focus, on getting rid of the ego, but to me it's like splitting myself up.

One thing that I know, is that the ego comes with you after death, but it won't react like how it's reacting in the physical world. You see, the ego it's what gives us our individualization, and uniqueness. I have to be honest with myself, and Love is honesty. Love, loves even the most gruesome things. Yes... Love has a Dark side as well. At least, here on Earth we experience fucked up shit.

Of course not, the ego is no prob. Only overdoing is. Overdoing altruism e.g.

 

[league]

Like he said Ego isn't a problem unless it gets in the Way and is over the tops. Everything is subjective really.

 

[stalkinghyena]

Browsing the TOAF web page, I have a suspicion that achieving Godhood has something to do ego detachment as opposed to dissolution, the former being more "antinomian". I get the rooting in Grant, but I wonder how much of this stuff is Evola? I am just gaining first impressions.
Maybe it just comes down to another flavored version of Crossing the Abyss to realize "the person that was Aleister Crowley is but a mask." That is, the ascendant operator comes to a fixed "solar" realization that the Ruach and sublunar ego are just tools of an eternal "self that is not self" rooted in Neschamah, though this has to be forced into an inverted sense of absolute freedom.

What's the purpose of raising your Kundalini if you're not trying to dissolve your ego and merge with the godhead/all/nothingness?

Just judging based on the book covers, I think the idea would be to cultivate siddhis which could be identified with various states of consciousness aligned with the spirit forms being used. The could make you a Luciferian badass, I suppose. The stages of their "gnosis" would have to be based on personal goals, the conception of the One probably a trance to be avoided or manipulated to one's ends. I guess the focus would have to be a rigorous development within a more intermediate state of progress as opposed to absorption in the All, which would actually be the antithesis of their ascension.
I am curious how far this goes in terms of Vamachara practices and the like. "Lilith" can a euphemism for all sorts of things, some of which hurt but for which you'll be better in the long run - she told me so.

 

[Jk666]

I think you should strengthen the ego & separate yourself from the source that’s pretty selfish cuz it wants to eat everythin.

 

[hungry_ghost]

Well I spent some time thinking about this and it really doesn't matter. I think what they're doing is ass backwards and it's more directed towards the edgy Koetting types who think they need to evoke something for everything in their lives.

Furthermore, I personally think they misunderstood the teachings from the east and they put their own spin on it. You can't escape the source. Everything eventually returns to it.

And that bullshit about universe b isn't what most people think it is. It's just another way of describing the other side or what's beyond the illusion.

I personally think they misunderstand the typhonian or draconian in grants work. And they're more or less a group of demonolaters.

If you found the truth you don't need to write 25 books to get there.

 

[Jk666]

Furthermore, I personally think they misunderstood the teachings from the east and they put their own spin on it. You can't escape the source. Everything eventually returns to it.

ok let’s assume you’re right & there’s only 1 source. How do you explain beings that are completely opposed to it? they also came from it?

that doesn’t make sense.

I for 1 hate the source of all/ god/ the singularity & suffer panic attack/ anxiety because of it.

if it really were this powerful it would have crushed me by now…

 

[hungry_ghost]

The Eye of Ain is the source of all creation. It is the womb, it is chaos, it's the anticosmic, and universe b all rolled into one.

In plain English that means something comes from nothing. There's the world we live in (the illusion) and there's (reality) nothingness.

How do you explain beings that are completely opposed to it? they also came from it?

that doesn’t make sense.

I for 1 hate the source of all/ god/ the singularity & suffer panic attack/ anxiety because of it.

The beings you think are in opposition to source are only opposed to the illusion. In other words they can be seen as projections of the ego because the ego fears death and non-being.

Part of crossing the abyss is overcoming that fear.

if it really were this powerful it would have crushed me by now…

That's your ego speaking. Whatever it is it's not concerned with us whatsoever. We are not special.

 

[Öwnchef]

> The Eye of Ain

The Ayin of Ain. Nice word-play. Very impressive. Or Ayin of Kain. Then again Abel means fog. So the eye is obsolete there. If Abel meant frog, that all would be completely different. As French he probably would have invented the fries. Which taste good with ketchup. But the Belgian invented those. Anyway you must be right. Deus vult!