Narcotics in Magic

[Magpie]

Do they create favourable conditions for magical working in general (or in specific circumstances, if applicable). It is a simplification, but for the sake of the discussion, let's divide them into: 1. psychedelics 2. stimulants and 3. depressants (opioids, benzos etc).

I suspect many people will say psychedelics will pierce the veil prematurely - lift the "Providential veil of ignorance". Assuming the adequate dose and substance. I knew a person who started getting regular uncontrolled sleep paralysis after trying ketamine. I highly doubt it is good for magical practice, as the same effect can and should be reached in a controlled manner.

Stimulants - we all know Crowley loved some "white power" sniff. Is it in any way beneficial from the operative or contemplative point of view? Or does the agitation of the brain block descend into the deeper strata and hence generally impairs a magician?

Depressants - no idea myself. Probably even worse than psychedelics, but can't back that intuition with any argument or experience. I suspect that the general weakening of consciousness paired with experience of euphoric state would make one susceptible to lower influences.

OF COURSE, REGARDLESS OF ANYTHING, NO ONE ENCOURAGES OR PROMOTES THE USE OF ILLEGAL SUBSTANCES. THIS IS A PURELY THEORETICAL DISCUSSION.

 

[MidnightProphet]

I think it depends entirely on the practitioner and their level of control over their physiological and mental processes. From a planetary point of view, every planetary force has correspondences including drugs such as central nervous stimulants (Mercurial.) However, I think (not believe) that the states drugs induce can be achieved or approximated by a focused practitioner with a solid base in some kind of "meditative" practice. Conversely, these states can't be attained without first knowing what they are, so it could stand to reason that the effect of the drug is the knowledge of the desired state, and that perhaps methods must be explored to enter into them without drugs. This is a good question.

 

[AbammonTheGreat]

We can not deny the historical link between religious/spiritual practice/experience and psychoactives. Even the Abrahamic faiths were dealing with incenses and herbs that contained psychoactive properties. Biblical Hebrews were burning cannibinoids, the "Soma" of the vedic faiths hints at psychedelics, the mideval Kabbalists were neurotic coffee/caffeine addicts, central to Egyptian rites was an aphrodisiac/stimulant found in the blue lotus, the Greeks participated in drunken revelry to achieve ecstatic states with the Dionysian Mysteries functioning as an ancient "Coachella" festival. And if you are to take anything the Terrence McKenna and John Allegro camp says seriously (which I believe as occultists we should) then we can safely assume that this tie between psychoactives and religious experience were an essential part of our evolution as humans and had a large hand in our development of ego, conscious awareness, and "identity".

This being said, psychoactives are NOT the experience but I think are better understood to be "lubricants", especially for those who are not committed to a full-time occult/spiritual path. The reliance on psychoactives for spiritual progress can be an absolute crutch and in a modern world absolutely plagued by addiction I do not think it is wise for the modern spiritualist to engage in making psychoactives an essential part of their practice. There seems to be a symptom of modernity that makes the majority of the population highly susceptible to addiction and addiction/substance abuse is one of the absolute worst things that could ever happen to your soul/spirit as it quite literally filters you from divine connection, dulls your sensitivity, and attracts astral entities/demons.

We can very much have spiritual experience without psychoactives but if we choose to utilize them they must be done so with respect and intent. It is important we avoid the synthetic/false perception of the psychedelic spiritualist, those people we all know who make LSD their brand of spiritual experience. The drugs/psychoactives can only take you so far, and often times when you reach the boundary of psychedelic or psychoactive experience you realize the thing you are looking for in them is God. They'll take you to a certain level, but it is not the actual experience.

As for narcotics themselves. Psychedelics/entheogens are pretty good in a ritual context but as a lubricant not as the main event. Benzos, depressants, opiates should be avoided they filter you. Stimulants like caffeine and nicotine are a favorite amongst mystics and monks. Alcohol should be avoided in spiritual context at all costs.

I personally don't use any psychoactives but thats a personal choice.

 

[Faria]

I'm all in favor of using recreational drugs for recreational purposes. Once you start taking them seriously, things start to degrade into quasi-mystical bullshit. Just enjoy your trip and don't think any of the weird insights you get from it have much relation to magical topics.

Most magical work comes down to wanting to know something or make something happen. Drugs don't help with either of those things.

Calling spirits? Maybe you're hoping that by putting yourself into a state of mind where you see and think weird things, that you'll see and hear spirits better? That's usually how people try to work it. I think it's dumb. Assume that you aren't trying to make things appear in front of you, just distill the situation down to what you want to get from it; and what's left of spirit evocation is you working with some other person to get something done. Do you normally dose up before trying to make deals with people? If you are not in your right mind, you're not legally able to enter into contracts or agreements with people, so why would you make spiritually binding covenants while intoxicated?

 

[TheMouse]

there are lots of keys and teachers . . . every drug has something to teach . even the "bad" ones i'll never try . . . .

lots of these "shortcut" teachers serve as a way to temporarily experience new possibilities . . . offering a glimpse into some new way of perceiving the world and your situation.

One of the dangers is when people start believing certain things are only possible with the drugs. Everything a drug can do, can be done better without it . . . but sometimes training wheels are useful.

Another danger is when people believe that More Is Better when it comes to plant and chemical teachers . . . there are many subtle visionary herbs that people overlook because it's a deeper conversation with that plant spirit that doesnt lead to blowing your head open (not that theres anything wrong with breakthrough experiences . . theres just so much more)

Another danger is that these drugs are often done in groups or with people who have different goals and intentions than we might. Drugs can render you open and vulnerable to energetic spillover and spiritual pollution. Energetic predators are a thing, even among the "best" of these drugs in the most "spiritual" communities.

 

[PinealisGlandia]

Another danger is when people believe that More Is Better when it comes to plant and chemical teachers . . . there are many subtle visionary herbs that people overlook because it's a deeper conversation with that plant spirit that doesnt lead to blowing your head open (not that theres anything wrong with breakthrough experiences . . theres just so much more)

I can vouch for this in connection to alcohol (a depressant like OP asked about). Drinking any meaningful amount makes meditation impossible, but drinking a tiny amount (as in: less than 15ml of liquor) after fasting and before meditation led to an enlightening experience. Nothing particularly deep per se, but it gave me fresh insight on the chemical alcohol because I could feel it effecting me deeply even though the amount I drink wouldn't be more than a taste in a normal context. In my closet, in the dark, focusing on the feeling in my stomach, I could feel the euphoria that usually comes with several drinks.

I can't guarantee that microdosing other chemicals will have similar results. With psychedelics, I've found minimal benefits with minimal dosage and greater benefits with greater dosage. I don't perform ritualwork while I'm on psychedelics, the use of the psychedelic is the ritual. The result of the ritual is the novel thoughts and connections I make during the experience. And the pure lust for life it instills. Eating marmalade sober is just fulfilling hunger. Eating marmalade after taking five squares of LSD is a shared moment with the ancestors, appreciating generations of experimentation and craftsmanship to experience a serene moment of jammy goodness that took thousands of years to bring to completion. And then after that moment, and after that trip, every time you eat something there's that moment of appreciation as you think "humans worked hard to come up with this recipe".

 

[TheMouse]

And then after that moment, and after that trip, every time you eat something there's that moment of appreciation as you think "humans worked hard to come up with this recipe".

Yes! . . . and thank you for that experience with alcohol . . . that's the Good Work!

 

[ArchonLynx]

Salvia, LSD, weed, mushrooms, peyote, DMT
Are good at opening doorways for you.

And seeing/feeling our full reality.

 

[Sahasrara]

However, I think (not believe) that the states drugs induce can be achieved or approximated by a focused practitioner with a solid base in some kind of "meditative" practice. Conversely, these states can't be attained without first knowing what they are, so it could stand to reason that the effect of the drug is the knowledge of the desired state, and that perhaps methods must be explored to enter into them without drugs. This is a good question.

I agree that the states drugs induce can be achieved naturally and even better than with the drugs. I do think drugs are a dead end spiritually and they can only give you a glimpse of "the real deal". I took some ketamine many years ago, not to attain any spiritual states but just recreationally, from time to time. I didn't think much about it from a spiritual standpoint then, but now when I've meditated regularly for about two years and had deep meditative experiences I notice that some sensations remind me of how it felt when I took ketamine. For example, the dissociative state where you don't feel your body anymore. But the meditative experience is so much better than any synthetics I've ever tried. It goes higher, deeper. It feels pure and gives no side effects. And it's me who is attaining this, not an external drug.

But the drug gave me some experience of … what to look for is probably not right, but something to compare meditation to at least. And it's interesting to see that the brain can actually produce these states of mind on its own. It gives a hint of all the hidden potential within us.