Planetary Hours: Dawn vs Sunrise?

[kosmo9854]

Hello,

Question for you: has anyone come across the idea that the planetary day and 1st hour begin not at sunrise, but instead 15 minutes beforehand at "dawn"?

I was reading The Hours: The Καταρχαι of Hygromanteia, by Mat Hadfield (a practical guide to using the hours of the Hygromanteia), who wrote:

"Each day begins at dawn, meaning fifteen minutes before the disc of the sun appears over the horizon. 68" p. 28

Footnote 68 from this passage references p. 106 of The True Grimoire (second edition) by Jake Stratton-Kent, and reads:
"In the day and hour of Mars, the moon being at the crescent, and at the first hour of the day - which is a quarter of an hour before sunrise..."

I have never seen this idea before in any other grimoire. Unfortunately, I don't have the second edition of The True Grimoire to check the context of the source, and the first edition doesn't include this line (as far as I can tell).

So, according to this book, the first hour begins 15 minutes before sunrise... which would make every online planetary hours calculator wrong (if this is true).

What do you think?
Has anyone else come across this idea?
Is it widespread or just the opinion of this author?

Thanks,
S

 

[Adelina]

I have second edition of True Grimoire by Jake Stratton-Kent (2022), and it says nothing about "quarter of an hour before sunrise".

It is very bad move from Mad Hadfield to throw shadow of doubt on other authors by attributing to them his ignorance.

Planetary Hours of the Day are calculated by dividing time between Sunrise and Sunset by 12.

Planetary Hours of the Night are calculated by dividing time between Sunset and Sunrise by 12.

It was openly (even if in convoluted manner) noted like this even so far as in "The Book of Secrets of Albertus Magnus".

There are many "occult authors" who really have no clue what they are writing about...

Post automatically merged: Sunday at 9:31 PM

I have second edition of True Grimoire by Jake Stratton-Kent (2022), and it says nothing about "quarter of an hour before sunrise".

Edit: actually it says, to the shame of Jake Stratton-Kent.

Post automatically merged: Sunday at 9:36 PM

Edit: actually it says, to the shame of Jake Stratton-Kent.

Actually it says so in some versions of Grimorium Verum itself. Which is dobtlessly wrong approach.

 

[kosmo9854]

Thanks for your reply Adelina.

Yes, every other grimoire I've read seems to say the same thing - dividing the time between sunrise and sunset by 12, etc.

After a second look, the first edition of The True Grimoire also has this line, but as you say, it's quoted from the text itself in the section about "THE CHARACTER OF SCIRLIN & THE CONJURATIONS".

Well, glad I don't need to rethink the planetary timing.

 

[beardedeldridge]

Interesting. It feels like I’ve heard this before but can’t currently place where. I’ve always used sunrise/sunset and I just checked half dozen (Agrippa and True G and couple of other of Kent’s) and nothing regarding quarter hour mentioned. Of note in the True G he uses sunrise to calculate it but in his example of buying during a certain hour mentions no shop would be open at “dawn”. But that would seem to take a creatively sloppy reading to come to your author’s interpretation of it.

 

[Yazata]

I think what is meant is that we can see the light of the sun before the sun really rises above the horizon.
Don't know if that's in any Grimoire but I think I've heard this in an episode of QI long ago.

Post automatically merged: Monday at 6:48 AM

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Sunset but same more or less