• Hi guest! As you can see, the new Wizard Forums has been revived, and we are glad to have you visiting our site! However, it would be really helpful, both to you and us, if you registered on our website! Registering allows you to see all posts, and make posts yourself, which would be great if you could share your knowledge and opinions with us! You could also make posts to ask questions!

Prerequisites to starting out goetic work

rizzla

Neophyte
Joined
Sep 13, 2025
Messages
6
Reaction score
1
Hello friends, I’ve worked with goetic entities in the past and i have seen manifestations happen, they are very strong entities and tbh its the only form of magick that truly works for me, although i have a regular meditation, lbrp, and invocation ritual with my deities - i still face backlash everytime i try to work with them - even if it is with bune for something like money - i tend to get more disrupted, angry, upset etc but after sometime it cures itself - what are some ways i can reduce the backlash of working with the lower entities?
For context i try to follow the goetia of dr rudd as closely as possible - albiet i dont have all the things like lions skin belt hah!

i apologise if my english isnt good its not my first language
 

HellenaHex

Neophyte
Joined
Apr 29, 2025
Messages
26
Reaction score
104
Awards
3
This isn’t going to be the most popular opinion I’m sure but have you considered trying Demonolatry. You would be working with the same beings but in a way that doesn’t make them hostile towards you. I find I have great success treating them the same way I would a fae, spirit, or god. I come at them from a place of respect and I don’t always ask for anything I just honor them or interact with them. When I do ask for things they are usually eager to assist and I experience no backlash. For example I started encountering them when I met a Solomonic magic practitioner and he wasn’t gifted at seeing and interacting with spirits the way I am. So he needed my assistance understanding what entity he had offended and was causing him serious problems. I learned from Stolas that the practitioner thought he was better than Stolas and could force Stolas to do whatever he wanted. So I informed the practitioner that he had offended Stolas by being disrespectful, mocking Stolas while drunk, and being a narcissist. He didn’t like that answer but he knew it was true and asked how to pacify it. I told him what Stolas specifically wanted as recompense and when he did it Stolas stoped causing trouble for him.

There are some spirits that are more dangerous than others so in some cases using caution and protections is good but I never force them to do anything if they aren’t harming me or those under my protection, and I never use protections or items from their enemy. So basically I don’t use angels or God’s names to force anything simply because I wouldn’t want to be forced to do things either. I know that if I was I would absolutely take every opportunity to make the one who forced me to miserable.

It also sounds like you could use some energy clearing techniques and grounding techniques you would do after working with these beings. Their energy doesn’t have this effect on me but maybe I’m just used to dealing with dark or low energies. If being around them is effecting your energy and personality after interacting with them you could try taking a cool shower with frankincense and myrrh soap or dragons blood soap. While in the cold water visualize or imagine you feel the unwanted energy and programming rinsing off your body and going down the drain. If there is a prayer or mantra you like for cleansing or protection you could say it during this. The cold shower is to get anything on you that doesn’t belong off basically. Then take a warm bath or shower as hot as you can stand it comfortably. If in a bath add bath salts if possible. While in the warm water visualize your inner fire or spark growing stronger or feel your body begin to tingle from your energy becoming higher. A sauna or a warm spicy meal could also help increase your energy and help raise your vibration.

You may also want to consider making some sprit allies who could help keep unwanted influences from you. As well as act as protectors when you are working with a spirit of being you don’t trust. I usually would call on my fetch mate for that sort of assistance but any familiar spirit would be able to help. The other thing you could do is create a protective talisman you would wear when dealing with spirits that cause you to have backlash. As for the lion belt two practitioners I know made some using a mountain lion pelt instead and it worked perfectly. 🦇✨
 

rizzla

Neophyte
Joined
Sep 13, 2025
Messages
6
Reaction score
1
This isn’t going to be the most popular opinion I’m sure but have you considered trying Demonolatry. You would be working with the same beings but in a way that doesn’t make them hostile towards you. I find I have great success treating them the same way I would a fae, spirit, or god. I come at them from a place of respect and I don’t always ask for anything I just honor them or interact with them. When I do ask for things they are usually eager to assist and I experience no backlash. For example I started encountering them when I met a Solomonic magic practitioner and he wasn’t gifted at seeing and interacting with spirits the way I am. So he needed my assistance understanding what entity he had offended and was causing him serious problems. I learned from Stolas that the practitioner thought he was better than Stolas and could force Stolas to do whatever he wanted. So I informed the practitioner that he had offended Stolas by being disrespectful, mocking Stolas while drunk, and being a narcissist. He didn’t like that answer but he knew it was true and asked how to pacify it. I told him what Stolas specifically wanted as recompense and when he did it Stolas stoped causing trouble for him.

There are some spirits that are more dangerous than others so in some cases using caution and protections is good but I never force them to do anything if they aren’t harming me or those under my protection, and I never use protections or items from their enemy. So basically I don’t use angels or God’s names to force anything simply because I wouldn’t want to be forced to do things either. I know that if I was I would absolutely take every opportunity to make the one who forced me to miserable.

It also sounds like you could use some energy clearing techniques and grounding techniques you would do after working with these beings. Their energy doesn’t have this effect on me but maybe I’m just used to dealing with dark or low energies. If being around them is effecting your energy and personality after interacting with them you could try taking a cool shower with frankincense and myrrh soap or dragons blood soap. While in the cold water visualize or imagine you feel the unwanted energy and programming rinsing off your body and going down the drain. If there is a prayer or mantra you like for cleansing or protection you could say it during this. The cold shower is to get anything on you that doesn’t belong off basically. Then take a warm bath or shower as hot as you can stand it comfortably. If in a bath add bath salts if possible. While in the warm water visualize your inner fire or spark growing stronger or feel your body begin to tingle from your energy becoming higher. A sauna or a warm spicy meal could also help increase your energy and help raise your vibration.

You may also want to consider making some sprit allies who could help keep unwanted influences from you. As well as act as protectors when you are working with a spirit of being you don’t trust. I usually would call on my fetch mate for that sort of assistance but any familiar spirit would be able to help. The other thing you could do is create a protective talisman you would wear when dealing with spirits that cause you to have backlash. As for the lion belt two practitioners I know made some using a mountain lion pelt instead and it worked perfectly. 🦇✨

This isn’t going to be the most popular opinion I’m sure but have you considered trying Demonolatry. You would be working with the same beings but in a way that doesn’t make them hostile towards you. I find I have great success treating them the same way I would a fae, spirit, or god. I come at them from a place of respect and I don’t always ask for anything I just honor them or interact with them. When I do ask for things they are usually eager to assist and I experience no backlash. For example I started encountering them when I met a Solomonic magic practitioner and he wasn’t gifted at seeing and interacting with spirits the way I am. So he needed my assistance understanding what entity he had offended and was causing him serious problems. I learned from Stolas that the practitioner thought he was better than Stolas and could force Stolas to do whatever he wanted. So I informed the practitioner that he had offended Stolas by being disrespectful, mocking Stolas while drunk, and being a narcissist. He didn’t like that answer but he knew it was true and asked how to pacify it. I told him what Stolas specifically wanted as recompense and when he did it Stolas stoped causing trouble for him.

There are some spirits that are more dangerous than others so in some cases using caution and protections is good but I never force them to do anything if they aren’t harming me or those under my protection, and I never use protections or items from their enemy. So basically I don’t use angels or God’s names to force anything simply because I wouldn’t want to be forced to do things either. I know that if I was I would absolutely take every opportunity to make the one who forced me to miserable.

It also sounds like you could use some energy clearing techniques and grounding techniques you would do after working with these beings. Their energy doesn’t have this effect on me but maybe I’m just used to dealing with dark or low energies. If being around them is effecting your energy and personality after interacting with them you could try taking a cool shower with frankincense and myrrh soap or dragons blood soap. While in the cold water visualize or imagine you feel the unwanted energy and programming rinsing off your body and going down the drain. If there is a prayer or mantra you like for cleansing or protection you could say it during this. The cold shower is to get anything on you that doesn’t belong off basically. Then take a warm bath or shower as hot as you can stand it comfortably. If in a bath add bath salts if possible. While in the warm water visualize your inner fire or spark growing stronger or feel your body begin to tingle from your energy becoming higher. A sauna or a warm spicy meal could also help increase your energy and help raise your vibration.

You may also want to consider making some sprit allies who could help keep unwanted influences from you. As well as act as protectors when you are working with a spirit of being you don’t trust. I usually would call on my fetch mate for that sort of assistance but any familiar spirit would be able to help. The other thing you could do is create a protective talisman you would wear when dealing with spirits that cause you to have backlash. As for the lion belt two practitioners I know made some using a mountain lion pelt instead and it worked perfectly. 🦇✨
Thank you for your reply HellenaHex


About demonolatry that was the first method i used when i was around 15-17ish - i had worked with Paimon and tried to get close to him, also did such works with azazel - i’m not particularly sure what happened but that resulted in years of depression and energy loss for me - and the manifestation was iffy at best - i feel the Solomonic method isn’t very forceful at the very beginning, it only gets to that point of the spirit disobeys, and tbh after forcing and being for firm with my tone, my results started to show - i personally feel comfortable with the idea of setting boundaries for me and the spirit

so my predicament seems to be that if i take the demonolatry route, i face backlash and up and down results - Solomonic method gets me good results but i still face the negative backlash of just overall depression and anxiety for a couple of days after the ritual (for example recently i used a more solomonic method and was alot more stern with bune, but it came through and i exalted it with offerings greatly, when i use demonalatry it feels as though im been taken advantage of)

after which it becomes fine

although i feel your advice on making protection talismans would be beneficial to me - could u refer me to resources on how to make these as well as on general cleansing / protection / healing techniques?
 

HellenaHex

Neophyte
Joined
Apr 29, 2025
Messages
26
Reaction score
104
Awards
3
Well I definitely wasn’t meaning to convey that you should let spirits walk all over you. I just meant don’t be a jerk. You should always have some form of protection if you are prone to negative side effects after working with Goetic entities. Or working with a new spirit in general just to be safe. I’m also not saying beg or let an entity boss you around. I think it should be a facultative mutualistic relationship. Each species can live independently, but the partnership provides advantages, such as increased access to life force/other energies or protection from predatory spirits/enhanced abilities. If a spirit does cross you (and by cross I mean brings harm to you or those under your protection) you should absolutely retaliate. I like to use spirit traps and unmaking truly unpleasant spirits by sacrificing them to a very powerful entity I work with who will either eat them or enslave them. I obviously would only do something so drastic if a serious threat or violent act occurred.

A protective incense I use in my practice that can be used in banishing or exorcisms also is made with rue, angelica, elder berry, rose leaves, clove, cinnamon, ginger, St. John's wort, vervain, tobacco, lavender, sweet grass, rosemary, thyme, basil, hyssop, dill (small amount), yarrow, stinging nettles, dragons blood resin, and mint.

A simple version would just need vervain, bay leaf, rue, and dragons blood resin.

For cleansing you could use rosemary, lavender, basil, chamomile, mugwort, thyme, cypress, and copal incense.


Celtic sea salt is great for spiritual cleansing and protection. Wearing an obsidian mirror pendant that is cleansed in a protective incense and prayed over can be a great protective talisman.


To create a simple protective and purifying spray you just need spring water, birch bark, and to heat up something made of silver until it’s hot enough to hiss when it hits the water. You can remove the silver object once it has cooled. And add the water that has had the birch soaking in it into a spray bottle. It should work without the silver and you could add other cleansing things to the soak but birch bark works perfectly on its own. I like to and vervain sometimes to mine or customize it to certain deities.

books that might be of interest to you for cleansing and protection:

Protection and Reversal Magic by Jason Miller.

Everyday psychic defense by Cassandra Eason.

By Rust of Nail & Prick of Thorn: The Theory & Practice of Effective Home Warding by Althaea Sebastiani

Spiritual Cleansing: A Handbook of Psychic Self-Protection by Draja Mickaharic

Modern Guide to Energy Clearing by Barbara Moore

Psychic Self-Defense & Protection Magick: A Guide for Daemonolaters by S. Connolly

The talisman creation rituals I would point you toward are all very much traditional witchcraft based, a specific current, or deity specific. If that’s alright I don’t mind telling you about them but I wasn’t sure if that was acceptable in your personal practice.
 

rizzla

Neophyte
Joined
Sep 13, 2025
Messages
6
Reaction score
1
Well I definitely wasn’t meaning to convey that you should let spirits walk all over you. I just meant don’t be a jerk. You should always have some form of protection if you are prone to negative side effects after working with Goetic entities. Or working with a new spirit in general just to be safe. I’m also not saying beg or let an entity boss you around. I think it should be a facultative mutualistic relationship. Each species can live independently, but the partnership provides advantages, such as increased access to life force/other energies or protection from predatory spirits/enhanced abilities. If a spirit does cross you (and by cross I mean brings harm to you or those under your protection) you should absolutely retaliate. I like to use spirit traps and unmaking truly unpleasant spirits by sacrificing them to a very powerful entity I work with who will either eat them or enslave them. I obviously would only do something so drastic if a serious threat or violent act occurred.

A protective incense I use in my practice that can be used in banishing or exorcisms also is made with rue, angelica, elder berry, rose leaves, clove, cinnamon, ginger, St. John's wort, vervain, tobacco, lavender, sweet grass, rosemary, thyme, basil, hyssop, dill (small amount), yarrow, stinging nettles, dragons blood resin, and mint.

A simple version would just need vervain, bay leaf, rue, and dragons blood resin.

For cleansing you could use rosemary, lavender, basil, chamomile, mugwort, thyme, cypress, and copal incense.


Celtic sea salt is great for spiritual cleansing and protection. Wearing an obsidian mirror pendant that is cleansed in a protective incense and prayed over can be a great protective talisman.


To create a simple protective and purifying spray you just need spring water, birch bark, and to heat up something made of silver until it’s hot enough to hiss when it hits the water. You can remove the silver object once it has cooled. And add the water that has had the birch soaking in it into a spray bottle. It should work without the silver and you could add other cleansing things to the soak but birch bark works perfectly on its own. I like to and vervain sometimes to mine or customize it to certain deities.

books that might be of interest to you for cleansing and protection:

Protection and Reversal Magic by Jason Miller.

Everyday psychic defense by Cassandra Eason.

By Rust of Nail & Prick of Thorn: The Theory & Practice of Effective Home Warding by Althaea Sebastiani

Spiritual Cleansing: A Handbook of Psychic Self-Protection by Draja Mickaharic

Modern Guide to Energy Clearing by Barbara Moore

Psychic Self-Defense & Protection Magick: A Guide for Daemonolaters by S. Connolly

The talisman creation rituals I would point you toward are all very much traditional witchcraft based, a specific current, or deity specific. If that’s alright I don’t mind telling you about them but I wasn’t sure if that was acceptable in your personal practice.
Yes im ok with learning any path!
 

Asteriskos

Acolyte
Joined
Apr 16, 2024
Messages
490
Reaction score
749
Awards
9
This isn’t going to be the most popular opinion I’m sure but have you considered trying Demonolatry. You would be working with the same beings but in a way that doesn’t make them hostile towards you. I find I have great success treating them the same way I would a fae, spirit, or god. I come at them from a place of respect and I don’t always ask for anything I just honor them or interact with them. When I do ask for things they are usually eager to assist and I experience no backlash. For example I started encountering them when I met a Solomonic magic practitioner and he wasn’t gifted at seeing and interacting with spirits the way I am. So he needed my assistance understanding what entity he had offended and was causing him serious problems. I learned from Stolas that the practitioner thought he was better than Stolas and could force Stolas to do whatever he wanted. So I informed the practitioner that he had offended Stolas by being disrespectful, mocking Stolas while drunk, and being a narcissist. He didn’t like that answer but he knew it was true and asked how to pacify it. I told him what Stolas specifically wanted as recompense and when he did it Stolas stoped causing trouble for him.

There are some spirits that are more dangerous than others so in some cases using caution and protections is good but I never force them to do anything if they aren’t harming me or those under my protection, and I never use protections or items from their enemy. So basically I don’t use angels or God’s names to force anything simply because I wouldn’t want to be forced to do things either. I know that if I was I would absolutely take every opportunity to make the one who forced me to miserable.

It also sounds like you could use some energy clearing techniques and grounding techniques you would do after working with these beings. Their energy doesn’t have this effect on me but maybe I’m just used to dealing with dark or low energies. If being around them is effecting your energy and personality after interacting with them you could try taking a cool shower with frankincense and myrrh soap or dragons blood soap. While in the cold water visualize or imagine you feel the unwanted energy and programming rinsing off your body and going down the drain. If there is a prayer or mantra you like for cleansing or protection you could say it during this. The cold shower is to get anything on you that doesn’t belong off basically. Then take a warm bath or shower as hot as you can stand it comfortably. If in a bath add bath salts if possible. While in the warm water visualize your inner fire or spark growing stronger or feel your body begin to tingle from your energy becoming higher. A sauna or a warm spicy meal could also help increase your energy and help raise your vibration.

You may also want to consider making some sprit allies who could help keep unwanted influences from you. As well as act as protectors when you are working with a spirit of being you don’t trust. I usually would call on my fetch mate for that sort of assistance but any familiar spirit would be able to help. The other thing you could do is create a protective talisman you would wear when dealing with spirits that cause you to have backlash. As for the lion belt two practitioners I know made some using a mountain lion pelt instead and it worked perfectly. 🦇✨

As for the lion belt two practitioners I know made some using a mountain lion pelt instead and it worked perfectly.
Super interesting take on this, a lot more "practical" than shall we say "African" for many people!
Post automatically merged:

Super interesting take on this, a lot more "practical" than shall we say "African" for many people!

As for the lion belt two practitioners I know made some using a mountain lion pelt instead and it worked perfectly

@SkullTraill
I seem to recall a while back you were giving some thought to making one of these?
Thought you might take a look at this?
 
Last edited:

Nerone

Neophyte
Joined
Oct 13, 2025
Messages
8
Reaction score
11
I believe the Goetia of Dr. Rudd is the grimoire that first introduced the idea of the 72 angels of the Shemhamforash as a counterpart to the 72 daemons in the Lesser Key of Solomon. It's an aggressive approach, but really good to have in your back pocket in case something goes wrong, although I'd consider it as an absolutely last resort for protection, in case all hell breaks loose and all diplomacy and communication fails.

The reason I don't like the aggressive binding style is that I think there is great value in treating others like we would be treated ourselves, which includes the spirits we're working with; imagine yourself chilling at home, only for someone to come barging in through your door in a hooded ski mask adorned with divine names, kidnap you and force you to mow some schmucks lawn without any appreciation, respect or recompense; not even so much as a glass of lemonade under the scorching sun. You would most certainly have a chip on your shoulder towards that individual. Not a great way to start a long term relationship based on sympatico, respect and trust or building a good reputation amongst the infernal spirits; if that's what you're going for anyway.

I never quite understood why people would bind the demons through angelic powers in the first place, instead of, you know, just working directly with the angels themselves.

On the other hand, there is the whole power dynamic that can easily get eschewed if you become too submissive to the spirits you're working with, which I think is the inherent weak point of the Demonolatry route. As in all things, I think it's about finding that sweet spot in between the fire of authoritative command as seen in the Grimoires and the water of compassionate relation as seen in modern Demonolatry.

Besides changing your approach, there are couple of basics I think worthwhile to keep in mind;

- I think it better to focus on developing one solid relationship with one spirit in your first two-three years, but that's just me. Quality over quantity. The spirits are very different, both in terms of their energetic signature and personalities, and it is entirely possible that you have just worked with spirits incompatible with your own constitution. "Not your spirits" so to speak. Christopher Warnock described an episode in which he created a mirror of Lilith according to an old grimoire, only to be so overwhelmed by the "negative charge" that that episode alone turned him off of working with demons completely. Which is unfortunate, since that might just have been the energy of Lilith in particular and not the whole Chthonic realm in general, which is quite varied

- It could also very well be that you're not acclimatized to working with Chthonic "Yin" energies; some people take to it like fish in water, some need time to adjust to the temperature of the water, while some simply aren't made for the water at all. It's not something I claim to understand, but people seem to have a predominant polarity towards either the Celestial or Chthonic, and even here to have natural affinities with some powers over others. I have a working theory that most powers can be acclimatized to, though some are just inherently better suited to our personal makeup; it took me well over a year getting used to one particular Goetic spirits intensity, for example

- Celestial counterbalance to the Chthonic. Reciting any scripture out loud, engaging in prayer, mantras, divine contemplation. As an additional practice to your conjure work. Too much of the Chthonic, especially if you're not used to it, can have some of the adverse effects you're speaking of. Keep the saying in mind that "the dose makes the poison". Solar work in particular seems to balance the Chthonic out nicely

- Good temple hygiene. Your working space should be cleared of any intrusive spirits that may lurk in the corners, which may include parasites. Banish before a ritual + after a ritual when working indoors; unless you're looking for the energy to permeate and gradually seep into your surroundings. Fumigation is another addition to keep your space clean. White Sage is commonly used amongst Western occultists, as is Mugwort in the Chinese occult tradition for it's inherent "Yang" properties; it is also used in moxibustion and acupuncture for this same reason. Besides your surroundings, you should be clean yourself; not just having fresh breath and clean hands, but in body and spirit as well; use consecrated salt to shower in for the former and spells/prayers for the latter

- Attunement to the spirit and getting their attention. You want to leave out the possibility of anything other than the spirit you're calling upon to manifest. I have seen this gone... Bad. While S. Connolly's Goetic Enns are most likely made up, they still serve as an excellent anchor point for you to repeat in order to get on the same "wavelength" with the spirit, especially when spoken with intention and strong visualization

- Some type of energy work. You really don't want to use your own personal energy for just about anything; this can easily make you feel drained and tired, especially in conjure work. You'll get better cardio eventually, but it's a use-it-or-loose-it type of situation. Some type of fatigue is to be expected as a beginner, but it should not be persistent

- Good quality offerings goes a long way. Use beeswax candles instead of paraffin and go for an incense with natural, non-synthetic ingredients. I like the Japanese style ones without a bamboo core. Making a nice seal also goes a long way as a gesture of respect; I like using wooden coasters and a pyrography pen, though you can get by with black cardboard paper and acrylic paint; a white POSCA marker is quite nice if you don't know how to use a brush. Don't mix Celestial and Chthonic powers on the same altar. When you call upon a spirit for the first time, do have some offerings ready as a welcome gift. Candles and incense is fine, no need to go overboard. But be careful with the alcohol; just a shot glass is fine. Same when you pay them after the working has been completed; once a week for about a month is fine. Do keep your promises though and don't make them too extravagant; neglecting agreed upon offerings is a huge no go. This is not charity work, but a mutual exchange. Appreciation and respect also goes a long way.

There is, of course, a lot more that could be said, but these are the immediate things that springs to mind in your situation
 

MorganBlack

Zealot
Warned
Joined
Nov 18, 2024
Messages
212
Reaction score
462
Awards
4
Daamn, I can tell you guys got this!

My 2 cents:

GV guys here, but let me signal boost Demonolatry and Rudd. Both are valid entry points. Both are super great.

As Verum says the demons will come "according to the character and temperament of the one who wishes to invoke."

If we think about that more, Demonolatry is a great way to approach them. The sacramental approach turns down your own personal hostility, which can get reflected back in ritual , necessitating even greater hostility is some astral asshole loop.

I'd don't think the daimons (thought being) care if you yell at them, or if you are 'rude.' The mistake the more 'Solomonic' side of our practice makes is also taking the stories too literally and thinking you have fire up your own hatred, anger, or hot-tempers to get them to come. You will get their most aggressive manifestations that way. I did early very on, and have the scars. Ah well, live and learn
 

Asteriskos

Acolyte
Joined
Apr 16, 2024
Messages
490
Reaction score
749
Awards
9
let me signal boost Demonolatry
Good point, lately I've seen or heard (just eyes and ears open) increasing references to that term from different directions. There's a lot to be said for you "gravitate" to what you resonate with, even if sometimes you might not realize it consciously initially. Just my .02! It would piss me off too if some wannabe tough guy/gal came at me with an asinine hard ball attitude, WTF?
Post automatically merged:

You will get their most aggressive manifestations that way. I did early very on, and have the scars. Ah well, live and learn
This is what I meant back there, agree 100%. No "need" to go there!
 
Last edited:

rizzla

Neophyte
Joined
Sep 13, 2025
Messages
6
Reaction score
1
Thank you guys for your responses

i do have a couple of follow up questions

as far as my current practice goes its pretty traditional with the method from dr rudd - if you guys could recommend a grimoire other than that what would it be?

another question i have is, lets say i do a standard ritual and the demon agrees to full-fill a certain task, and within a time frame it is not fulfilled, some
have suggested that the demon should be evoked and threatened, and if again it does not fullfill, it should be tormented using the black box method

so it would go like
Evoke
If not manifested evoke again and ask why
If advice is followed and still not then threat
If still not then torment

i see that most of you here will not agree with this method so how do you go about ensuring ur magick is effective? What do u do if the demon does not full-fill ur request?
 

MorganBlack

Zealot
Warned
Joined
Nov 18, 2024
Messages
212
Reaction score
462
Awards
4
Hmmm. The ol' box of torture.

In my view view that is getting them riled up them a little bit too much in the wrong direction. Another classic approach is to assume they are bound currently by another magician , and you have to unbind their chains .

David Rankine is experimenting with calling The Winds for a spirt uber. The point is not to automatically assume they are being recalcitrant. Do you automatically brow-beat your waitress if your food is late?

When I first started out I thought I had to get it all done in a single ritual. I would hype myself into a frenzy and spend a lot of bio-engergy.

Then I read Jason Black's (no relation) personal accounts of evocation in his book , with Hyatt, 'Pacts with the Devil' .. It had just come out and in it he talked about how he would evoke over a number of consecutive days, and it made a lot of sense. Link below.

If you are just getting to know a spirt - meaning they are not one of your 'pacted' allies who comes quickly, try evoking them over 3 - 9 consecutive days. There is an exponential cumulative effect. Nine days is the classic Folk Catholic novena.

Book – PDF - Pacts With the Devil: A Chronicle of Sex, Blasphemy and Liberation - S. Jason Black & Christopher S. Hyatt

Here. Just ignore the 1990's Satanic Mechanic edge-lord tone. :)
 

rizzla

Neophyte
Joined
Sep 13, 2025
Messages
6
Reaction score
1
Hmmm. The ol' box of torture.

In my view view that is getting them riled up them a little bit too much in the wrong direction. Another classic approach is to assume they are bound currently by another magician , and you have to unbind their chains .

David Rankine is experimenting with calling The Winds for a spirt uber. The point is not to automatically assume they are being recalcitrant. Do you automatically brow-beat your waitress if your food is late?

When I first started out I thought I had to get it all done in a single ritual. I would hype myself into a frenzy and spend a lot of bio-engergy.

Then I read Jason Black's (no relation) personal accounts of evocation in his book , with Hyatt, 'Pacts with the Devil' .. It had just come out and in it he talked about how he would evoke over a number of consecutive days, and it made a lot of sense. Link below.

If you are just getting to know a spirt - meaning they are not one of your 'pacted' allies who comes quickly, try evoking them over 3 - 9 consecutive days. There is an exponential cumulative effect. Nine days is the classic Folk Catholic novena.

Book – PDF - Pacts With the Devil: A Chronicle of Sex, Blasphemy and Liberation - S. Jason Black & Christopher S. Hyatt

Here. Just ignore the 1990's Satanic Mechanic edge-lord tone. :)
Interesting - this is a actually present in rudd’s work too, that the demon may be bound, i have a followup question

Usually i only move foward with the ritual if i feel the demon is present, more importantly the grimoires ask us to test it so as to 1. Make sure its not an imposter and 2. The demon is actually present

now if the demon comes in the first or second conjuration with no force - and it infact confirms that it is who ive called and it accepts to help my request

And THEN disobeys, wouldnt that be reason enough to insue a threat?

Id like to share an experience

When i started to work with bune things went great, everything went accoriding to plan and i gave him good offerings for his work which we agreed upon

later on the magick started to get weaker, mind you nothing much changed here, i just started to consider him more as a friend

So i decided to communicate with him and see if im doing something wrong, he gave some advice which did not work even after i applied it

so then i started to question myself, maybe my offerings werent good enough? Maybe i dint treat him right?

it was at this point i had read stephen skinner and lon milo duqette and some others and they talked about this concept of demons making you doubt urself - and that the relationship should be “you give the orders, and you give the questions” - aka there is no negotiation

having felt that i was played, i evoked it again and this time i was rougher than usual, i told bune that if it did what i asked, i would exalt him to greatness like how he has done for me, if not torture would ensue

this time the feeling of his precese was so strong, i could tell he was agreeing

and that week he followed through to the dot with my request- and as i promised i rewarded him

I would be interested to hear your thoughts on this, how would u have proceeded differently? Why did my magick work when i was rude and why not when i was kind to him?
 

julio

Visitor
Joined
Jun 16, 2024
Messages
4
Reaction score
4
Allow me to offer a counterpoint: evocation is a technique wherein a spirit is compelled to physically become manifest, even if not as densely as flesh and bone, and once in that state it can communicate in a way that anyone present in the same room would hear it. This is not an easy feat, and without fasting, isolation, purification of one’s own spirit, good/pure incense, the correct tools prepared under the right elections and a lot of willpower dealing through the many failures that will certainly ensue, it’s almost impossible.

To wit, a certain heterodox Sufi sect in Trinidad & Tobago won’t guide an initiate through to the evocation of a jinn without the attainment of a degree of purity of body and spirit because without it, neither the jinn nor the spirits by whose names the operator is attempting to compel the jinn will listen.

Which is not to say that this is the only way one can work with any spirit at all. There might be valid combinations of use of a spirit’s seal and offerings (as for what offerings and to who, that’s something else) that might be fruitful. But communication between an operator and a spirit in an evocation certainly shouldn’t consist of anything subtle.
 
Top