[Opinion] Question About Appropriate Expectations

[Baelia]

I hope the following question makes sense!
Do you expect improvements in your life, outside of the circle, when you’ve found success with a practice within the circle? I’m speaking more on practices like meditation or regular LBRP type things, not a specific working to improve an aspect of your life.
I ask because I seem to think that I may become calmer/happier/more lucky/whatever but I realize no one has actually told me to have that expectation. I’m extremely new to the method I’m learning (Celtic Golden Dawn), so it’s not like I’m even calling spirits in any truly meaningful, specific way yet, so I can’t imagine I’ve got anyone’s favor.
Mediation has its own benefits, of course, whether you’re combining it with magic or not, I guess.
Do I make sense? I just don’t have much experience with this sort of thing, and want to make sure my expectations are appropriate.

 

[Aldebaran]

It sounds like magick and the occult are working for you. Expect little from your magick, and you may be pleasantly surprised.

Do I expect success? Well, it’s magick, so no. I don’t expect success. But I like to think that it opens up another path to success for me that didn’t exist before.

I was once told that if you do everything correctly... maybe, just maybe, you increase your chances of success by 30%. Personally, I'll take those odds when none previously existed.

 

[ElectricEgregore]

If I understand you right you're asking if to expect improvements in your life from these exercises of your mind and the working on your perspective, as I also would approach doing things like the embodiment you do with the LBRP ritual, right?

I would say yes and no.

Yes because a practice like this is known to produce positive effects in your mind and your life - you gain perspective as racing thoughts get 'put in their place' with meditation, and embodying and visualizing being a a bodily medium of power that is directly connected to the source of the cosmic powers is changing your whole view of yourself and the world.

No, because the approach of a practicing monk would be being not attached to the outcome & just practice for mastering any exercise.
This way things can align without 'throwing mental rocks into your way' - Doing without attachment. In magick this concept is comparable to the core approach of rituals in which you let go of the desired outcome in the ritual & do not expect things to manifest in a specific way, also reflected in the use of words of the intention used in the ritual. This way there is room for the desired result manifesting in all kinds of ways, not the specific ones that could limit the ways the results could come into life.

The combination of the two mentioned exercised reminded me of the practice of qi gong, where one enters a meditative state while visualizing the directed flow of energy.

You can definitely expect positive outcomes, but I wouldn't focus on those too much, maybe until you feel like trying additional things. You're definitely approaching things in a good way, as many do not practice these more general things that can be a complete game changer to the effectiveness of ones workings.

 

[Robert Ramsay]

The psychologist Richard Wiseman wrote a book called 'The Luck Factor' where he did experiments to see if there was such a thing as lucky/unlucky people, based on their beliefs. One principle was 'listen to your hunches/intuition' and he found that people who did meditation, or meditation adjacent things actually improved the quality of their intuition, and thus their luck.
I would add that 'being lucky on purpose' is one of my definitions of the practical aspects of magic.

 

[Lucien6493]

First off, you are guided, and you do have someone's undivided attention, and one day, when after years of following after mysteries like after a white Hart in a misty glen, through everything that the practice of magick can and will toss your way, you might catch a glimpse of that illusive, and ever mysterious creature and know that it loves you and that it chose your name and every path you ever thought you took. That creature is, of course, your magickal self. And the thing is this, that magick will give you things and bring changes into your world and fulfill you in ways you can't predict, let alone anticipate. It will always surprise you though, at least in retrospect, because expectation is where focused intent mingles with your unknowing. Thinking that we are inside or outside of the circle is probably the first mistake we all make, and it is extremely important and instructive that we do make that mistake because a big part of magick is learning how to dance with the human-only-too-human part of our identity in a more creative way. Now, it is in fact true that one should disregard expectation, but you need to remember that whether you are talking about meditation or magickal technique, this rule does not apply in the beginning because your lived experience is the work of both meditation and magick, and the work itself, following its own inner logical, will create the conditions under which dropping your expectations actually makes sense. Meanwhile, let the metaphors and myths and stories of magick enchant you. Aim for the stars and have faith that you are on a good road and wrestle with that part of you that will always say, "get real, huh"? cause the reality of the fool is just another dream. Grok? You are already asking the right questions. Trust in that.

 

[Beyond Everything]

I hope the following question makes sense!
Do you expect improvements in your life, outside of the circle, when you’ve found success with a practice within the circle? I’m speaking more on practices like meditation or regular LBRP type things, not a specific working to improve an aspect of your life.
I ask because I seem to think that I may become calmer/happier/more lucky/whatever but I realize no one has actually told me to have that expectation. I’m extremely new to the method I’m learning (Celtic Golden Dawn), so it’s not like I’m even calling spirits in any truly meaningful, specific way yet, so I can’t imagine I’ve got anyone’s favor.
Mediation has its own benefits, of course, whether you’re combining it with magic or not, I guess.
Do I make sense? I just don’t have much experience with this sort of thing, and want to make sure my expectations are appropriate.

Meditation in general is a must, but normal meditation won't necessarily alter your luck. However changing deep internal energy patterns will reflect a different outer reality. The LBRP is really weak sauce, everyone just memetically advises it despite the very people who created it not being models one would want to emulate.

The truth about magic is in general it can improve some things, and -due to various factors I won't go into- make some things worse. Many people involved in your typical magical practices die earlier than average, for instance. But no one here would want to discuss that.

 

[Baelia]

It sounds like magick and the occult are working for you. Expect little from your magick, and you may be pleasantly surprised.

Do I expect success? Well, it’s magick, so no. I don’t expect success. But I like to think that it opens up another path to success for me that didn’t exist before.

I was once told that if you do everything correctly... maybe, just maybe, you increase your chances of success by 30%. Personally, I'll take those odds when none previously existed.

I like this attitude a lot. I’ve always been a lot less trusting in magical success than many I’ve met in the New Age space, so I appreciate the validation, ha. Something is certainly better than nothing.

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 9:54 PM

First off, you are guided, and you do have someone's undivided attention, and one day, when after years of following after mysteries like after a white Hart in a misty glen, through everything that the practice of magick can and will toss your way, you might catch a glimpse of that illusive, and ever mysterious creature and know that it loves you and that it chose your name and every path you ever thought you took. That creature is, of course, your magickal self. And the thing is this, that magick will give you things and bring changes into your world and fulfill you in ways you can't predict, let alone anticipate. It will always surprise you though, at least in retrospect, because expectation is where focused intent mingles with your unknowing. Thinking that we are inside or outside of the circle is probably the first mistake we all make, and it is extremely important and instructive that we do make that mistake because a big part of magick is learning how to dance with the human-only-too-human part of our identity in a more creative way. Now, it is in fact true that one should disregard expectation, but you need to remember that whether you are talking about meditation or magickal technique, this rule does not apply in the beginning because your lived experience is the work of both meditation and magick, and the work itself, following its own inner logical, will create the conditions under which dropping your expectations actually makes sense. Meanwhile, let the metaphors and myths and stories of magick enchant you. Aim for the stars and have faith that you are on a good road and wrestle with that part of you that will always say, "get real, huh"? cause the reality of the fool is just another dream. Grok? You are already asking the right questions. Trust in that.

I appreciate the reminder to let it all enchant me. That is a struggle for me for a few reasons, but it is necessary to access certain things. A skill I need to practice like anything thing else.

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 9:55 PM

Meditation in general is a must, but normal meditation won't necessarily alter your luck. However changing deep internal energy patterns will reflect a different outer reality. The LBRP is really weak sauce, everyone just memetically advises it despite the very people who created it not being models one would want to emulate.

The truth about magic is in general it can improve some things, and -due to various factors I won't go into- make some things worse. Many people involved in your typical magical practices die earlier than average, for instance. But no one here would want to discuss that.

I definitely see what you’re saying and you’re certainly not wrong about the big name people.

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 10:14 PM

The psychologist Richard Wiseman wrote a book called 'The Luck Factor' where he did experiments to see if there was such a thing as lucky/unlucky people, based on their beliefs. One principle was 'listen to your hunches/intuition' and he found that people who did meditation, or meditation adjacent things actually improved the quality of their intuition, and thus their luck.
I would add that 'being lucky on purpose' is one of my definitions of the practical aspects of magic.

I seem to hear that kind of thing from successful people a lot. Makes sense lol!

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 10:16 PM

If I understand you right you're asking if to expect improvements in your life from these exercises of your mind and the working on your perspective, as I also would approach doing things like the embodiment you do with the LBRP ritual, right?

I would say yes and no.

Yes because a practice like this is known to produce positive effects in your mind and your life - you gain perspective as racing thoughts get 'put in their place' with meditation, and embodying and visualizing being a a bodily medium of power that is directly connected to the source of the cosmic powers is changing your whole view of yourself and the world.

No, because the approach of a practicing monk would be being not attached to the outcome & just practice for mastering any exercise.
This way things can align without 'throwing mental rocks into your way' - Doing without attachment. In magick this concept is comparable to the core approach of rituals in which you let go of the desired outcome in the ritual & do not expect things to manifest in a specific way, also reflected in the use of words of the intention used in the ritual. This way there is room for the desired result manifesting in all kinds of ways, not the specific ones that could limit the ways the results could come into life.

The combination of the two mentioned exercised reminded me of the practice of qi gong, where one enters a meditative state while visualizing the directed flow of energy.

You can definitely expect positive outcomes, but I wouldn't focus on those too much, maybe until you feel like trying additional things. You're definitely approaching things in a good way, as many do not practice these more general things that can be a complete game changer to the effectiveness of ones workings.

This is really helpful, thank you. You’ve reminded me of something I sort of half-learned years about sigil magic and how to handle intention. This has connected some dots for me. Much appreciated.

 

[Beyond Everything]

I like this attitude a lot. I’ve always been a lot less trusting in magical success than many I’ve met in the New Age space, so I appreciate the validation, ha. Something is certainly better than nothing.

I'm going to say something that will seem contradictory to what I said before. Don't have low expectations! Demand large results. You're trying to get your 'subconscious' onboard and you want to believe you can do tremendous things. At the same time, you need to critically evaluate specific practices and their results (both short and long term). So both things need to be balanced, or even compartmentalized.