[Help] Question on Sigils from a beginner

[Floonth1]

So I was reading Advanced magick for beginners by Alan Chapman and I got to the part about Sigils, he mentioned that once you create the Sigil you should attempt to enter a state of great excitement or calm. He focused on masturbation, with you visualising the Sigil at the point or Orgasm. I pretty much was just curious about some of the other methods that you could use to enter an effective state for this to work (other then Sex or Jerking off). He mentioned pain but how severe would it have to be to become effective? I'm also curious about how feelings of calm could be used to the same effect. I do apologise if this is asked a lot. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[AlfrunGrima]

He mentioned pain but how severe would it have to be to become effective?

This is the experiment you have to do yourself. No other practitioner can tell you how much pain or buildup of excitement is needed for the desired effect. Every person is different, every person has another background, another frame of thinking, another relation with their body thus sensing things different. Gnosis is highly individual. You just have to try things, keep notes afterwards.

Now from the practical point of view. To practitioners who are new with this I will give share the following idea: can you remember in your childhood days that you did games with turning around so long and fast that you become so dizzy that you fall? Just before falling you get that highly excited feeling that you're almost going off the rails, that feeling of almost falling but not falling and that you try to be in tht moment as long as possible? It is that and you have to recreate that feeling in one or another way for yourself. And everyone has his or hers own methods for that.

 

[HoldAll]

In his "Liber Null & Psychonaut", Peter J. Carroll writes:

Methods of achieving gnosis can be divided into two types. In the inhibitory mode, the mind is progressively silenced until only a single object of concentration remains. In the excitatory mode, the mind is raised to a very high pitch of excitement while concentration on the objective is maintained. Strong stimulation eventually elicits a reflex inhibition and paralyzes all but the most central function—the object of concentration.

There is also a table on page 23 where he lists various inhibitory (e.g. sleeplessness, fasting, sensory deprivation, concentration) and excitatory (pain, torture, dancing, drumming, right way of walking = Castaneda trance method) methods. I think the inhibitory methods are less popular because learning how to still the mind, for example, can take years while excitatory methods are, well, exciting; working oneself up to a peak experience of whatever nature is probably easier, too. Here's a method I dreamed up recently, haven't tried in personally yet:

Place your sigil on the floor, get into the plank position (= supporting yourself on both forearms and tips of your toes only) so that the sigil is right in front of your face and close your eyes. Shortly before the inevitable muscle failure sets in and you collapse on the floor, you open your eyes wide open and deeply 'inhale' your sigil, as it were.

It's inspired by Spare's famous Death Posture (whatever that was, people are still bickering). I wouldn't use pain though, the danger is that your pain threshold may mount and that you'll need ever stronger stimuli to achieve gnosis.

 

[Floonth1]

In his "Liber Null & Psychonaut", Peter J. Carroll writes:

Methods of achieving gnosis can be divided into two types. In the inhibitory mode, the mind is progressively silenced until only a single object of concentration remains. In the excitatory mode, the mind is raised to a very high pitch of excitement while concentration on the objective is maintained. Strong stimulation eventually elicits a reflex inhibition and paralyzes all but the most central function—the object of concentration.

There is also a table on page 23 where he lists various inhibitory (e.g. sleeplessness, fasting, sensory deprivation, concentration) and excitatory (pain, torture, dancing, drumming, right way of walking = Castaneda trance method) methods. I think the inhibitory methods are less popular because learning how to still the mind, for example, can take years while excitatory methods are, well, exciting; working oneself up to a peak experience of whatever nature is probably easier, too. Here's a method I dreamed up recently, haven't tried in personally yet:

Place your sigil on the floor, get into the plank position (= supporting yourself on both forearms and tips of your toes only) so that the sigil is right in front of your face and close your eyes. Shortly before the inevitable muscle failure sets in and you collapse on the floor, you open your eyes wide open and deeply 'inhale' your sigil, as it were.

It's inspired by Spare's famous Death Posture (whatever that was, people are still bickering). I wouldn't use pain though, the danger is that your pain threshold may mount and that you'll need ever stronger stimuli to achieve gnosis.

Thank you very much, in fact I was just thinking about the plank idea whilst working out earlier today.

 

[therootbeersprite]

This thread may be useful to you:

Best way to activate sigils in your opinion?

There are lots of ways to activate sigils such as charging them under the moon light, burning them or destroying them in general, perception activation, etc. But what is the most effective way? I personally charge mine under the moonlight or burn them but is that really the most effective way?

wizardforums.com

 

[frater_pan]

So I was reading Advanced magick for beginners by Alan Chapman and I got to the part about Sigils, he mentioned that once you create the Sigil you should attempt to enter a state of great excitement or calm. He focused on masturbation, with you visualising the Sigil at the point or Orgasm. I pretty much was just curious about some of the other methods that you could use to enter an effective state for this to work (other then Sex or Jerking off). He mentioned pain but how severe would it have to be to become effective? I'm also curious about how feelings of calm could be used to the same effect. I do apologise if this is asked a lot. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Take a look at Austin Osman Spare who invented these approaches to charging sigils (although he didn't invent sigils which had been created for a few hundred years before him at least). In one of his works he has at least a dozen different methods.

Basically though the methods involve trance, exhaustion, sexual excitation, other excitation (drumming and dancing, usually to exhaustion for example), and pain. The complete calm you mentioned would be like meditation. There are also "astral" energy methods (these are used more in conjunction with the elements though and usually after you charge the sigil but I have heard of people who whipped a sigil together and then immediately destroyed it using elements [like burning it immediately for example although any of the physical elements would work])

Spare could endure quite a bit of pain. From memory he wrote to not hurt yourself. I wouldn't start with this method.

Spare's list might be in the "Book of Pleasure."

 

[Firetree]

In his "Liber Null & Psychonaut", Peter J. Carroll writes:

Methods of achieving gnosis can be divided into two types. In the inhibitory mode, the mind is progressively silenced until only a single object of concentration remains. In the excitatory mode, the mind is raised to a very high pitch of excitement while concentration on the objective is maintained. Strong stimulation eventually elicits a reflex inhibition and paralyzes all but the most central function—the object of concentration.

There is also a table on page 23 where he lists various inhibitory (e.g. sleeplessness, fasting, sensory deprivation, concentration) and excitatory (pain, torture, dancing, drumming, right way of walking = Castaneda trance method) methods. I think the inhibitory methods are less popular because learning how to still the mind, for example, can take years while excitatory methods are, well, exciting; working oneself up to a peak experience of whatever nature is probably easier, too. Here's a method I dreamed up recently, haven't tried in personally yet:

Place your sigil on the floor, get into the plank position (= supporting yourself on both forearms and tips of your toes only) so that the sigil is right in front of your face and close your eyes. Shortly before the inevitable muscle failure sets in and you collapse on the floor, you open your eyes wide open and deeply 'inhale' your sigil, as it were.

It's inspired by Spare's famous Death Posture (whatever that was, people are still bickering). I wouldn't use pain though, the danger is that your pain threshold may mount and that you'll need ever stronger stimuli to achieve gnosis.

Methods of achieving gnosis can be divided into two types. In the inhibitory mode, the mind is progressively silenced until only a single object of concentration remains. In the excitatory mode, the mind is raised to a very high pitch of excitement while concentration on the objective is maintained. Strong stimulation eventually elicits a reflex inhibition and paralyzes all but the most central function—the object of concentration.

So, both methods aim at one result ; concentration . The same with meditation . Often people mention mediation ; 'I meditated', 'let's meditate' , etc . What on earth are you talking about ? Do you realize how many types of meditation there are ? One may as well ask ; ''Do you want to come and do ..... stuff ? ''

And all those types of meditation fall into the above two categories as well ; active and passive ( or stimulation and inhibition ) . Passive meditation is what most are thinking of ; still the mind or 'empty it ' , do nothing , have no thoughts . That is indeed hard considering the airy active nature of the mind (one can start off by having only one thought or visualized object - I used to suggest , when teaching sword { bo ken} if you cant have an empty mind , just visualize 'clear blue sky ). The idea is your mind is not wandering all over the place thinking of things outside the field of willed concentration .

The active method is based on acknowledging this nature of mind and working with it . That , in magick, is by a correct circle or temple set up using magical correspondences ( and knowing your stuff )... the mind may wander in the Venus temple but .... whats that smell ? It's the incense of Venus , same with colors, sights, sounds , symbols ... should all throw the mind back to the one object of concentration , in this case Venus .

Even some systems that do this do not realise it . In talking to some Tibetan Buddhist practitioners they sort of didnt get it . No , they said , we only do passive meditation , they didnt really understand ... until I pointed out their temples and rituals are totally FULL OF stuff like that ;colors, banners sumptuous materials, yantras and mantras , bells magic daggers and wands ( phurba and dorje ) ... skull drinking cups ! ... come on guys !

So I would suggest the state needed for the sigil is based on concentration . . . thats the desired result , the other two are methods to get there ... two of the methods to get there

'' 17. Fixed thought is a means to an end. Therefore pay attention to the power of silent thought and meditation. The material act is but the outward expression of thy thought, and therefore hath it been said that "the thought of foolishness is sin." Thought is the commencement of action, and if a chance thought can produce much effect, what cannot fixed thought do? ''

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

and the best way to concentrate is to eliminate distractions (retirement ) ;

'' III. Super-consciousness is a natural phenomenon; its conditions are therefore to be sought rather in the acts than the words of those who attain it.

The essential acts are retirement and concentration — as taught by Yoga and Ceremonial Magic.''

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

 

[frater_pan]

Spare could endure quite a bit of pain. From memory he wrote to not hurt yourself. I wouldn't start with this method.

Spare's list might be in the "Book of Pleasure."
My memory on Spare re: pain comes from some other source than "The Book of Pleasure". I currently only have TBoP but previously I had other Spare works so I'm confidant about what I wrote. Also the 14 or so methods I mentioned might have come from Chaos Magick sources but I'm pretty sure they are from another Spare source.

Here is a quote from Spare's "The Book of Pleasure" re: the ending of the Sigils chapter where he addresses charging the sigil:

First, all consciousness except of the Sigil has to be annulled; do not confuse this with
concentration- you simply conceive the Sigil any moment you begin to think. Vacuity[29]
is obtained by exhausting the mind and body by some means or another. A personal or
traditional means serves equally well, depending on temperament; choose the most pleasant;
these should be held in favour, Mantras and Posture, Women and Wine, Tennis, and the
playing of Patience, or by walking and concentration on the Sigil, etc., etc. None is
necessary to him who has (even symbolically) for a moment by the "Neither-Neither"
conquered the dual principle (Conception), his Ego is free from gravity. If the Sigil
is made an obsession by continual apprehension, its realization may happen at any moment,
in the form of inspiration. This is done by reverting the mind to the Sigil when one is
extremely worried- the time of exhaustion is the time of fulfilment. At the time of exhaustion
or vacuity, retain only and visualize the Sigil form- eventually it becomes vague, then
vanishes and success is assured. by the Ego conceiving only the Sigil, and not being able to
conceive anything from it, all energy is focussed through it, the desire for identification
carries it to the corresponding sub-conscious stratum, its destination. The Sigil being a
vehicle, serves the purpose of protecting consciousness from the direct manifestation of
the (consciously unacknowledged) obsession, conflict is avoided with any incompatible ideas
and neither gains separate personality. It (the obsession) is either gradually assimilated
and becomes organic or returns to its original abode, its purpose of illumination served.
Hence the mind, by Sigils, depending upon the intensity of desire, is illuminated or obsessed
(knowledge or power) from that particular Karma (the sub-conscious stratum, a particular existence
and knowledge gained by it) relative to the desire, but not from memory or experience which
was recent. Knowledge is obtained by the sensation, resulting from the unity of the desire
and Karma. Power, by its "actual" vitalization and resurrection. This knowledge leaves its
stratum in company with the energy or desire returning to the Ego. It escapes the Ego's
resistance by associating with similar images, memories, or experiences relative (recieved
in this life), that the mind contains, and crystalizes itself by their symbolism. Hence
most illumination is symbolic, and must be subsequently translated.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Note: [28] There are six methods of Sigils employed in this book, each corresponding to
different strata. The one shown here is illustrative and the fundamental idea of them all,
from which anyone can evolve his own system. Conditions, etc., or necessity subsequently
evolve themselves. Also a person has more power of creation and originality with a
limited means of expression.
[29] This is not the passivity of mediumism which opens the mind to what is called
external influence- disembodied energy usually having no better purpose than to rap-tables.
There are many means of attaining this state of vacuity: I mention the most simple,
there is no need for crucifixion. Drugs are useless. Smoking and laziness the more difficult.