Sinister Tarot?

[Xenophon]

A number of LHP groups use a "sinister tarot." The deck has 21 trumps rather than the "standard" 22. Does anyone know why? I read an article by Christos Beest, but though he called attention to the point, he did not say why. I imagine it might have aught to do with the hebdomian system, being three groups of 7. Or it could be a way around the number 22 and its Hebraic associations. Does anyone know other explanations?

 

[Wildchildx11]

The association with LHP being "dark", "edgy" or "sinister" and needing to be separate from things associated with the Right Hand Path.

I use Waite-Rider since it's the one my family used growing up and I associate more with it and I'm not going to change.

Probably, the association with the Kabbalah is fair.

 

[Xenophon]

The association with LHP being "dark", "edgy" or "sinister" and needing to be separate from things associated with the Right Hand Path.

I use Waite-Rider since it's the one my family used growing up and I associate more with it and I'm not going to change.

Probably, the association with the Kabbalah is fair.

The Sinister Tarot has "Gates" instead of aces. There are 11 cards to a suit (Gate, 2-7, 4 court cards). Wands are identified with air; swords with fire (which I always thought made more sense, even before I heard of a sinister tarot.) The court cards have different names: Magus for King, Mousa for Queen, Warrior for Knoght, and Maiden for Page. There are a few other differences, we need not get into. (See Fenrir III for complete description.)

 

[Wildchildx11]

The Sinister Tarot has "Gates" instead of aces. There are 11 cards to a suit (Gate, 2-7, 4 court cards). Wands are identified with air; swords with fire (which I always thought made more sense, even before I heard of a sinister tarot.) The court cards have different names: Magus for King, Mousa for Queen, Warrior for Knoght, and Maiden for Page. There are a few other differences, we need not get into. (See Fenrir III for complete description.)

So actually serious LHP practitioners? I take my previous comment back. I was thinking of like some new tarot deck which was just dark or edgy.

I actually may check it out when I get back into LHP stuff. I'm taking a break to balance.

 

[Xenophon]

So actually serious LHP practitioners? I take my previous comment back.

It's a variation on the tarot used by some LHP folks. Whether it's useful is another question. It might well be more to the point of LHP magick. Or it might be the occult equivalent of coining new pronouns. "Terminal uniqueness," as the saying runs.

 

[8Lou1]

my cards are still somewhere in one of my boxes (i just moved) so i cant have a look at them right now. and i claimed them as MY cards, so what mr. beast says a bout them is no longer of my cards concern. i also want to mention that mr. musk has hired someone who calls himself mr. beast.

the missing cards and renaming them with purpose seems to have to do with the spirits who ordered the creation of the cards. without to much pondering upon the question this came up:

22 is a mirroring number
21 is equal to 3 in several ways, but most importantly its 3 x 7

leaving out a card also means that there is a hole when you compare to other decks. these cards are magickal so there is an empty spot to be filled. i thought why not look at 3x7 in the googlebar and see what pictures i get. i got a site ive never heard of and its dark spiritual enlightenment in movie projects:

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i hope you can see the page @Xenophon

 

[Xenophon]

my cards are still somewhere in one of my boxes (i just moved) so i cant have a look at them right now. and i claimed them as MY cards, so what mr. beast says a bout them is no longer of my cards concern. i also want to mention that mr. musk has hired someone who calls himself mr. beast.

the missing cards and renaming them with purpose seems to have to do with the spirits who ordered the creation of the cards. without to much pondering upon the question this came up:

22 is a mirroring number
21 is equal to 3 in several ways, but most importantly its 3 x 7

leaving out a card also means that there is a hole when you compare to other decks. these cards are magickal so there is an empty spot to be filled. i thought why not look at 3x7 in the googlebar and see what pictures i get. i got a site ive never heard of and its dark spiritual enlightenment in movie projects:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

i hope you can see the page @Xenophon

The spirits you call on said there's a hole? Could be. Though Christos Beest was at some pains to declare the traditional tarot deck fekk-dupp and his version mightily superior.

I doubt Musk's Beast and Christos have much in common. The latter spells his name the Dutch way; Musk's the English fashion. In any case, Christos' is a pen name for one Richard Moult. So it seems these are not the same beastie boy. Though that is a cool word: muskbeast. As in, "Fetch the .600 Nitro Express there M'kubwu, and put some jubal in it! There grazes a splendid muskbeast to round out the safari." (From The Sows of Kilimanjaro.)

Can you send me a link to the picture site? In ways that are dark, in ways that are strange, the Chinee Net is peculiar. Plus my computer was one of the first ones made after Einstein stole the idea from poor ol' Nick Tesla.

 

[Wintruz]

A number of LHP groups use a "sinister tarot." The deck has 21 trumps rather than the "standard" 22. Does anyone know why? I read an article by Christos Beest, but though he called attention to the point, he did not say why. I imagine it might have aught to do with the hebdomian system, being three groups of 7. Or it could be a way around the number 22 and its Hebraic associations. Does anyone know other explanations?

It works with entirely different energies than the Elpihas Levi-based G.'.D.'. tarot attributions and so an entirely different set of keys are needed to represent those energies. In other words, it's not about getting around the Jewish based systems but representing something of an entirely different order. Remember that the Sinister Tarot is an incomplete deck too; there are images yet to be made and others yet to be made public.

I was always mystified as to why Beest shoehorns in the "courts" from exoteric tarot. I would have thought eschewing the entire framework of classic tarot and simply having all of the cards as trumps would have been more consistent. Ah well. Beesty knows best, I'm sure.

 

[Xenophon]

It works with entirely different energies than the Elpihas Levi-based G.'.D.'. tarot attributions and so an entirely different set of keys are needed to represent those energies. In other words, it's not about getting around the Jewish based systems but representing something of an entirely different order. Remember that the Sinister Tarot is an incomplete deck too; there are images yet to be made and others yet to be made public.

I was always mystified as to why Beest shoehorns in the "courts" from exoteric tarot. I would have thought eschewing the entire framework of classic tarot and simply having all of the cards as trumps would have been more consistent. Ah well. Beesty knows best, I'm sure.

Yes, the Tree of Wyrd is another animal (vegetable?) than the Sefiroth hangin' there like a fivefold nuzzack. I'm in the middle of drawing up my own sinister tarot deck. I might experiment and see how far simply using the trumps is useful. I'm strongly inclined to include the four Gates as well. As you hint, other trumps might become needful.

 

[Wintruz]

Yes, the Tree of Wyrd is another animal (vegetable?) than the Sefiroth hangin' there like a fivefold nuzzack. I'm in the middle of drawing up my own sinister tarot deck. I might experiment and see how far simply using the trumps is useful. I'm strongly inclined to include the four Gates as well. As you hint, other trumps might become needful.

This would be a very good thing to do from an initiatory standpoint. You'd essentially be codifying your own LHP. Impressive.

I always found the imagery of Beest's "Atu XIX - The Sun" perplexing until I, without really thinking about the ONA, took a day trip to the sinister environs of Shropshire. Visiting

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, I realised that the north tower was exactly the same as that from Beest's Sun image and that the "Lord's Chamber" could be seen inside the north tower. I then remembered that the old English name for the Lord's Chamber was a "solar". The only thing missing was the moat. But guess what was there at the time that room was called a solar...

 

[8Lou1]

@Xenophon: ill do my best, but in the mean time sony seems to have a nasty bite and is destroying my toys at home. (tv, etc.) alibabagroup i made peace with...

 

[Xenophon]

@Xenophon: ill do my best, but in the mean time sony seems to have a nasty bite and is destroying my toys at home. (tv, etc.) alibabagroup i made peace with...

No huge hurry. Sony has a nasty bite?

 

[8Lou1]

theupside of a sinister deck thats new is that you can toy with it, the downside is that these spirits are new. i got me one that is into setting things strait. this time his/her target is sony. so my sony stuff 'dies' i call for help aka insurances and then it all becomes clear. they act like you need a new one while there is this legal right to get help and reparation.

although this is right action and its not really sony, but those little inbetween companies that dont comply, i rather not have such fights. this being didnt agree and is showing sony what is going on.

at this point im going blind in seeing spirits etc, i even said you know what leave me out of this stupid shit and now they decided to give me what i need to take my irritations away. i get angry at injustice.

i pulled ace of wands from @stalkinghyena's deck. and they like the deck i bought from christos beest...

 

[stalkinghyena]

i pulled ace of wands from @stalkinghyena's deck. and they like the deck i bought from christos beest...

I'm writing a Kama Sutra for wedding decks now Lou!

Total BDSM, for me anyway.

The deck has 21 trumps rather than the "standard" 22. Does anyone know why? I read an article by Christos Beest, but though he called attention to the point, he did not say why.

Enochian has 21 letters, so maybe Beest is making an association there? I don't have a deck so I can't see which Trump is missing.

If I were going down into the Pit, I'd probably take the Giger deck with me. As far as I know it's Majors only, and I saw a copy for like 250 bucks "used". I like how The Lovers is also the cover of Danzig III: How the Gods Kill.

Seems like for proper pop LHP everything needs to be shades of dismal black with putrid white highlights.

 

[Xenophon]

I'm writing a Kama Sutra for wedding decks now Lou!

Total BDSM, for me anyway.


Enochian has 21 letters, so maybe Beest is making an association there? I don't have a deck so I can't see which Trump is missing.

If I were going down into the Pit, I'd probably take the Giger deck with me. As far as I know it's Majors only, and I saw a copy for like 250 bucks "used". I like how The Lovers is also the cover of Danzig III: How the Gods Kill.

Seems like for proper pop LHP everything needs to be shades of dismal black with putrid white highlights.

Sinister tarot leaves out XXI The Universe (or World.) I suppose that makes sense for folks who insist that the World is not all that is the case. One could just as easily rationalize adding a card for Chaos/ the Acausal. Or, for that matter, rationalize keeping the World trump and adding Chaos. If disinclination to have 22 persists, a 23rd could be added, that number being significant in the Hermetic traditions. One disincentive is that this would start mucking up the Tree of Wyrd's pathways.