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The most physical, tangible magic possible?

maxlficenint

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Hey everyone! I was wondering what the most physical type of magic is? Some example I've heard when I've asked others this question include getting something to ring a bell (spirit, demon ,whatever), and the eastern practice of neikung. I believe there was a post on here a little while ago mentioning something with the Egyptians but I can't be sure. Basically, any magic that can move an object or alter an object. Something along those lines.
 

KjEno186

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Telekinesis. This kind of practice requires supreme abilities in concentration of the mind. The Hindus seem especially capable in this regard.

I've been reading a couple of books which might be of interest to you: Clairvoyance and Occult Powers by Swami Panchadasi and Concentration by Mouni Sadhu. Both books can be found for free on the web. There's even a free Kindle version of Clairvoyance and Occult Powers on Amazon here:

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maxlficenint

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That's basically the goal of Mo-Pai, among other things. I was thinking more along the lines of western ritual practice and more immediate results if that makes sense.
 

Diluculo_DelFuego

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What is your background and your goals? I was the one that wrote the question on Egyptian Magic, and we have quite a few books in the Library.
I would recommend Aaron Leitch's Secrets of the Magical Grimoires. Excellent book. Frater Yechadiah has one on Enochian Magic.
 

8Lou1

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if you want immediate results with magick, you have to level down and accept that a pc is magickal. we use it for all sorts of things and in all actuality you cant even hold the software without having hardware, so in a sense its non-existent. but do go to a chat box and understand how space and time combine true wifi, but even better now tru glasscables (is this english we call this new fast thing in dutch like that). bendable glass thats one thing i call magick and data goes tru it and there are hackers who know how to get that data out into an other spot without anyone ever going to find them or understanding what they did. aint that magick?

for any other real deal you need a long time and lots of prayers to god that he will give you the right manna to do that shit. or get hit by a master of course and then all things can go, like flying you dont believe in, but still you want direct magick.

so start believing first. since you say eastern way, well i combine reiki, in its shittiest western form with social engineering to help people find Love in whatever form.
 

Diluculo_DelFuego

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I'd honestly look into indigenous tribal magic, and deal with everything as a shaman would.
 

KjEno186

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western ritual practice and more immediate results
Yeah. Here's the deal. Rituals arranged and performed by someone who has no mental preparation will fail. But are you just looking for "proof" that reality can be altered in some obvious way regardless of the consequences to yourself? There are plenty of accounts in popular books of "poltergeist" phenomena accompanying magical experiments, but I know of no way to guarantee that something will happen. As Joseph Lisiewski wrote, "In today's society, people try to make time only for those matters that fill some specific need, and that, quickly... But there could be no greater single mistake in learning and effectively applying hidden, occult techniques of magic such as are presented in this book." - Ceremonial Magic & The Power of Evocation.
 

Al-Zalaam

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Hey everyone! I was wondering what the most physical type of magic is? Some example I've heard when I've asked others this question include getting something to ring a bell (spirit, demon ,whatever), and the eastern practice of neikung. I believe there was a post on here a little while ago mentioning something with the Egyptians but I can't be sure. Basically, any magic that can move an object or alter an object. Something along those lines.
That's basically the goal of Mo-Pai, among other things. I was thinking more along the lines of western ritual practice and more immediate results if that makes sense.

Asking for the most physical type of magic and asking for western ritual magic is a contradiction.
Most ritualists are not capable of manifesting physical effects consistently. And as far as I've seen, most of their work revolves around spirit work and spells of influence.
Technically speaking, the physical manifestation of spirits is "physical magic", but even that is a rarity for most practitioners of these traditions.

The allure of modern ritualistic systems is that they allow novices and the untrained to jump quickly into the magic without spending years going through hard and lengthy initiation.
Ritual magic is like a crutch or bridge, which allow the aspirant to gain a more immediate degree of involvement with magic and control over their lives - but this "expedited" approach to magic has its drawbacks.
Namely, potency.
They will plateau fairly quickly and have lower ceilings of development.

And unfortunately for most ritualists, physical magic is far above that ceiling which contains them.

There are a few traditions where physical magic is an expectation or normalcy within the tradition, though.
Of course you got those cliché secret arts practiced by monks in the east such as in Tibet, where they do all sorts of fascinating feats after years of dedication.

And as been mentioned by another here, psychic practices like Psychokinesis are also physically effective.

But the system I am most personally familiar with is Elemental Magic.
Elemental Magic has consistent physical effects at higher levels, and possesses a reasonable tangibility in beginning-to-intermediate levels as well.
Say you and I were in the same room - I could fill the room with the presence of any of the Elements, and you would be able to feel the power of that Elemental force within your own body, whether it be the sweat-inducing Hotness of the Fire Element, the chilling Coldness of the Water Element, the Heaviness of the Earth Element, or the Lightness of the Air Element.
Unfortunately for me, though, that is the highest extent of physical effect I can currently have with the Elements off-the-bat.
I wasted many of my years with incorrect practice, and now I'm here playing catch-up at an intermediate level.

At higher levels of Elemental Magic, however, many impressive physical feats are possible. Spontaneous combustion through the Fire Element, Levitation through the Air Element, causing it to rain with the Water Element, manifesting visible mirages with the Earth Element, and countless other things are easily accessible with advanced proficiency.
Not to mention all the things that can be achieved through the manipulation of the Electro-Magnetic Fluids.

But then there is the drawback of any of these systems I have just mentioned - they require a great degree of dedication and time.
Those eastern monks spend many many years learning to do what they do (to be fair though, their systems aren't all that efficient).
Psychokinesis, on the other hand, is an elusive menace which takes a persistent, dogged stubbornness in practice and can have wildly fluctuating results depending on your personal aptitude.
And Elemental Magic, while being reasonably efficient, still takes at least 1-3 years of preliminary initiation before effectively engaging with its eponymous practice - and that's assuming things go perfectly, rather than being a bumpy road like mine and taking over a decade (my misfortune of not having a teacher and being on my own). :p

So the question is, what time and effort are you willing to put in?
Physical magic is certainly there, for those who are dedicated enough to pursue it, but it is certainly not the path for everyone.
And unfortunately, the only realistic likelihood of attaining consistent physical magic with western ritual systems, is by bargaining with spirits to give you that power which you do not possess yourself, or maybe forming a very deep relationship with a specific deity and being gifted some power.
Otherwise, physical results with ritual systems are a rarity, not a normalcy.

So, these are the things you need to consider for yourself moving forward.
 

frsfmcs

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I would say that there are Western systems of spirituality that can lead you to those physical systems. However, the level of dedication involved is crazy high. The systems that come to mind are the Kabbalistic system, the Franz Bardon system, and the monastic system. I just watched a documentary about Orthodox Christian monks practices. It's crazy how much work they put in daily(about 6 hours spent on praying only). I think that's the amount needed for any systems out there for continuous tangible results at scale. Which honestly I don't think I am able to do. 😂 I hope some of you are, and I wish you good luck. 😏
 

Diluculo_DelFuego

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An interesting point on this, if we dont have it in book shares, I will find it and upload it, but Paul Foster Case was huge on sound and color in terms of magick, psychology and therapy. It can be used in combination to heal a person. Tarot often accompanies such a ritual.

Many people misunderstand him or blow him off, but he was critical in terms of Qabalah and Tarot and Gematria combined leading to revelation or significant experiences.

Monks are taught to sing. The reason why? More than just Christmas Caroling. Sound and esoteric church architecture is much like the ancient Egyptian magi/priests and the pyramid architecture.
Monks sing so that proper sound intonation is done...

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Ann Davies from Builders of the Adytum, or BOTA, is on youtube and also has videos on vowel intonation/intoning divine names.
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Visualization is critical in magic...
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Lazarus

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1. identify what you want.
2. manifest that reality.

Want to move something? Pick it up and place it where you want it.
Alter an object? Sculptors do this all the time.

Very physical types of magic. And actually fairly easy to achieve. It’s amazing how many people live reactionary lives on autopilot not capable of steps 1 & 2
 

Diluculo_DelFuego

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A favorite author of mine was Donald M Kraig (DMK). He had a technique called Identify Objectify Banish (IOB). Your post gave me an idea of an extension on DMK's idea, Identify, Objectify, Invoke.

What about god forms, structuring, and "astral pockets"? I recall these from Koettings OAA Flame Discourses (great book for beginners).
 

aviaf

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Donald Tyson has a book called Kinesic Magic. Pick it up, work thru it and you'll find the results you're looking for. Maybe learn aikido, and then synthesize what you learn about ki with magick. This isn't a quick fix. The road to the mysteries is long and arduous and most who begin down this path looking for a quick fix quickly get distracted by something else.
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Donald M. Kraig had a saying that I love, that might put it in perspective, magick isn't something you do, it's something you ARE... add C.J. Hyatt's "become who you are, there are no guarantees" to that, and it's the best advice on the practice of magick I've come across.
 
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Diluculo_DelFuego

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Yeah. Here's the deal. Rituals arranged and performed by someone who has no mental preparation will fail. But are you just looking for "proof" that reality can be altered in some obvious way regardless of the consequences to yourself? There are plenty of accounts in popular books of "poltergeist" phenomena accompanying magical experiments, but I know of no way to guarantee that something will happen. As Joseph Lisiewski wrote, "In today's society, people try to make time only for those matters that fill some specific need, and that, quickly... But there could be no greater single mistake in learning and effectively applying hidden, occult techniques of magic such as are presented in this book." - Ceremonial Magic & The Power of Evocation.
What are we defining as mental preparation? Meditation before the ritual, enn use, etc? Or a stronger will through focused concentration on subconscious seeding?
Curious on this.
 

KjEno186

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What are we defining as mental preparation? Meditation before the ritual, enn use, etc? Or a stronger will through focused concentration on subconscious seeding?
Curious on this.
From The Universal Master Key by Bardon:

When it comes to the magical exercises and work, we urgently require impetus, fiery vigour and enthusiasm so that we can reach our goal easier, as well as the fulfillment of our tasks and work, and to attain results and successes. ...​
We must preserve our original fiery vigour at all costs. And that is why we attack the exercises with which we have problems and for which we have lost our interest, enthusiasm and impetus with honest modesty, with a firm will and with great perseverance. We begin in a modest manner, slowly, but surely, with one exercise after another. When we invade this field of endeavour in this manner and give ourselves the fewest possible tasks, we are then able to cope with them in the best possible manner. Only when we have attained the right kind of mood and have placed ourselves into the proper situation, can we take on gradually more or greater tasks with confidence. In all probability, at the beginning, we made the mistake that we immediately imposed too many tasks on us with too much fiery vigour and too much enthusiasm that we were not able to cope with them. We used up too much of our power, so that we were finally faced with failures. It is always better to begin in a modest and humble manner and to spare or save our powers, so that we always have a particular reserve or supply of our vitality for goals and exercises that are still ahead of us, and which we must complete under any circumstances.​
The original poster, in seeking "more immeditate results," would likely approach the work with enthusiasm. But how long would that last? As @Heydi said, "So the question is, what time and effort are you willing to put in?"

Failure in Magic comes from haste and impatience. To Dare, To Know, To Will, and To Keep Silent. Paraphrased from Bardon:

To Dare: Courage to begin the work and persist in it despite obstacles. (Fire)​
To Know: Acquire the knowledge required for our development and understanding of universal laws. This never ends. (Air)​
To Will: Volition is uncompromising will that everything we want in accordance with our True Self will be realised without a doubt. (Water)​
To Be Silent: Absolute silence about any of our undertakings to erect the first three 'pillars.' (Earth)​

How do you go about it? Up to you. All I can say personally is that I spent the last year exploring concepts in various systems. I think this was necessary for me to choose the right path. Surely you know enough about yourself to make a decision at this point in time without seeking approval from others. We can enjoy the commentary of others, of course, and pass on knowledge as long as it isn't too specific in revealing our own works.
 

Diluculo_DelFuego

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From The Universal Master Key by Bardon:

When it comes to the magical exercises and work, we urgently require impetus, fiery vigour and enthusiasm so that we can reach our goal easier, as well as the fulfillment of our tasks and work, and to attain results and successes. ...​
We must preserve our original fiery vigour at all costs. And that is why we attack the exercises with which we have problems and for which we have lost our interest, enthusiasm and impetus with honest modesty, with a firm will and with great perseverance. We begin in a modest manner, slowly, but surely, with one exercise after another. When we invade this field of endeavour in this manner and give ourselves the fewest possible tasks, we are then able to cope with them in the best possible manner. Only when we have attained the right kind of mood and have placed ourselves into the proper situation, can we take on gradually more or greater tasks with confidence. In all probability, at the beginning, we made the mistake that we immediately imposed too many tasks on us with too much fiery vigour and too much enthusiasm that we were not able to cope with them. We used up too much of our power, so that we were finally faced with failures. It is always better to begin in a modest and humble manner and to spare or save our powers, so that we always have a particular reserve or supply of our vitality for goals and exercises that are still ahead of us, and which we must complete under any circumstances.​
The original poster, in seeking "more immeditate results," would likely approach the work with enthusiasm. But how long would that last? As @Heydi said, "So the question is, what time and effort are you willing to put in?"

Failure in Magic comes from haste and impatience. To Dare, To Know, To Will, and To Keep Silent. Paraphrased from Bardon:

To Dare: Courage to begin the work and persist in it despite obstacles. (Fire)​
To Know: Acquire the knowledge required for our development and understanding of universal laws. This never ends. (Air)​
To Will: Volition is uncompromising will that everything we want in accordance with our True Self will be realised without a doubt. (Water)​
To Be Silent: Absolute silence about any of our undertakings to erect the first three 'pillars.' (Earth)​

How do you go about it? Up to you. All I can say personally is that I spent the last year exploring concepts in various systems. I think this was necessary for me to choose the right path. Surely you know enough about yourself to make a decision at this point in time without seeking approval from others. We can enjoy the commentary of others, of course, and pass on knowledge as long as it isn't too specific in revealing our own works.
So how do we test and share our work, or to teach by example to newbies, without violating silence?
In my dwelling. I have ultra thin walls and fored water heat registers. I have neighbors below and next to me. I have to work in absolute silence except for Invoking words in my head, to avoid others overhearing my ritual.
Rural dwellings are best.
 

KjEno186

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So how do we test and share our work, or to teach by example to newbies, without violating silence?
People write books on magic all the time. I explained some magical philosophy in my post above, hopefully enough to direct an interested newbie towards more comprehensive sources of information (such as Bardon's books). But no one in this thread will blatantly state that they performed X ritual and got Y results that manifested physically and tangibly, not if they wish to maintain the ability to continue their practice. The proof of the pudding isn't the recipe, it's in the eating. The proof of the magic isn't the grimoire, it's in the practice. The practice is based on the four 'pillars.'

I'm not saying Bardon's way is The Way. The laws are universal, however. Don Webb provides a series of questions to his students for consideration at the end of the first month of working his book, How to Become a Modern Magus:

13. Is it hard to keep your mouth shut about some of this? Do you ever find yourself looking at other people and thinking, “I’ve got a secret”?
Is Don Webb giving up his secrets by writing a book? If Don Webb came on WF, would he write a post about planning an evocation next week for Papa Legba and ask what color candles he should use? Thinks to meditate upon....
 

Al-Zalaam

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So how do we test and share our work, or to teach by example to newbies, without violating silence?
In my dwelling. I have ultra thin walls and fored water heat registers. I have neighbors below and next to me. I have to work in absolute silence except for Invoking words in my head, to avoid others overhearing my ritual.
Rural dwellings are best.

The Law of Silence is........ complicated and often arbitrary. And it most certainly is not a harsh, cookie-cutter principle that applies everywhere at every time for everyone in a straight-forward fashion, which seems to be the perspective many modern magicians take.
You needn't cower in fear of the whispers of a ritual being heard, Providence isn't that draconian.

It isn't like our Laws, set-in-stone and ubiquitous, it is a natural principle which has an ebb and flow and can be summed up as "There's a time and place for everything".
It is one of the many natural mechanisms of Providence to keep the flow of fate from being disrupted in unintended ways, and the Law of Silence from the Magician's perspective is about self-responsibility and developing a wise, balanced sense of both discretion and boldness together. Knowing when to apply oneself and when not, knowing when to be exhibitive and when to be quiet. Knowing one's place in the flow of Fate.

Bardon speaks of this Law of Silence in the IIH - and yet, he was also a stage magician who performed feats of magic for the public for a period of time.
Is this a contradiction? Is he a hypocrite?
Nope, just an adept who knew when and where to play his cards under the watchful eye of Providence.

As an initiate grows into adepthood, he thoroughly enhances his connection to his Conscience far beyond the meager standards of the average person, and the Conscience, specifically, is said to be the finest expression of the Akasha/Ether within the Spirit.
It is our God-Compass, our direct connection to Providence.
And this is the central tool an adept uses to navigate fate and know when to do what, and where. Unlike the average person, an adept spends nearly every moment of every day focused and immersed into his Conscience - it's actually one of the components of God-Realization, becoming one with the Conscience.
With this intimate synthesis of the Conscience, the adept has a straightforward compass which directs his movements and actions at every moment down to the very second. It lets him know what he should be doing throughout his daily life and routine, lets him know what actions to take in any particular moment, all in harmony with Providence.

So when an adept like Bardon was performing as a stage magician, or when he was gathering fame as an enchanter and healer in his local Czech community, you can be sure it was entirely under the approval of Providence.

There are other aspects to the Law of Silence, such as the protection of spells and whatnot, but that's just straight up metaphysics, nothing mystical. Speaking and thinking about your spells/rituals draws away from their momentum and energy, like shooting an arrow and then trying to hold onto it while it is flying through the air.
But in the case of direct magic, such as Elemental Magic? The Law of Silence does not quite apply in the sense of this metaphysical aspect. That's why I have no qualms openly discussing or demonstrating it, because it is a technical skill like riding a skateboard or playing an instrument, and isn't affected by the same metaphysics that spells are.

However, one other important thing that falls under this metaphysical aspect of needing the protection of Silence, is personal spiritual work.
Just like spells, your spiritual journey and personal work has momentum and tides that can be disrupted, and it needs to be coddled carefully and privately.
There is a potent intimacy to the path you are walking and your developments toward Providence, and it wants that to be protected and kept as the Individual path that it is.
Being garrulous about it tarnishes the power of that intimacy and can derail your momentum.

Being open about the practical application of magic and discussing the technical mechanisms with your peers is entirely fine - it's just the personal side that needs to be handled carefully.

So beyond this metaphysical aspect of the Law of Silence, one must simply take careful personal responsibility of when and where they engage or exhibit their magic, so as not to act adversely against fate and invoke the ire of Providence.
Just as one doesn't bust into a martial arts routine in the middle of the store, begging for attention and public recognition of his skills like a child, a magician shouldn't be charging out his front door shouting "BEHOLD MY POWERZ" and throwing magic at people like a witch on a broomstick.
That isn't to say magic is never meant to publicly exercised, but that the application of magic in its entirety needs to be conducted wisely, both privately and publicly.

Time and place, that's all there is to it.
And for this principle of personal responsibility, the Conscience is the best compass to guide you at any particular moment.
 

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