The Serpent and The Tree

[Jaide]

I'm rereading

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(because I'm a firm believer that one can't retain all the important points of a book in the first reading...especially when one has ADHD). The author is (was?) a history teacher and had a vast background in religious history, so she often delves into all the ways the Catholic church coopted pagan traditions and temples to destroy the Old Religion and bring people to the church.

It reminded me that snakes, in many pagan traditions, represent wisdom and rebirth.

So.

Eating the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge was forbidden because Adam and Eve would gain knowledge. To the pagans they were trying to convert, the serpent represented wisdom, and wasn't considered evil. Seems to me the very first notable story in the Bible proves all on its own that Christianity was created to keep people stupid and under the thumb of those in control. Is it any wonder no one wanted to convert?

 

[Jaide]

You can find this in modern Christianity in the Amish and Mennonite communities (if you can call them "modern Christianity"). They take their kids out of school in the 8th grade and put them to work. They have specific patterns for making clothes, and blankets, and such. They have specific recipes for foods. They have set ways of doing everything. And they frown on seeking out new ways of doing these things, even so much as a new bread recipe, because it could take you away from God and the community.

Some more modern sects of Christianity discourage "higher learning" (such as college and grad school) for various reasons, not the least of which being the theory that colleges are meant to teach "liberal" ideas, which conservative Christians believe are anti-God and will turn their children against the church. And some Christians keep their kids in Christian private schools their entire lives so they can control what their kids learn.

 

[Yazata]

About the serpent: I am born on the day of Maria and I have all these theories etc .
It is fascinating to me that Mari is one of the titles used for Jesus.
Mari also means snake in Persian.
Yeah, to me the Serpent definitely is wisdom.

 

[Roma]

The serpent (EA) and the Tree (of Life) feature strongly in Sumerian writings

Abraham was from Sumer

 

[Jarhyn]

I'm rereading

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

(because I'm a firm believer that one can't retain all the important points of a book in the first reading...especially when one has ADHD). The author is (was?) a history teacher and had a vast background in religious history, so she often delves into all the ways the Catholic church coopted pagan traditions and temples to destroy the Old Religion and bring people to the church.

It reminded me that snakes, in many pagan traditions, represent wisdom and rebirth.

So.

Eating the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge was forbidden because Adam and Eve would gain knowledge. To the pagans they were trying to convert, the serpent represented wisdom, and wasn't considered evil. Seems to me the very first notable story in the Bible proves all on its own that Christianity was created to keep people stupid and under the thumb of those in control. Is it any wonder no one wanted to convert?

An interesting idea crossed me regarding the garden.

Once upon a time DNA was happily filling the world with life, in but not of the water.

It modeled math, and could not die and all was good.

Of the DNA some of them found and then among them had selected examples which could think of their individual time on the wheel, as instances.

Among these things, eventually arose something which could contemplate good and evil, but alas, this means that a thing holding ethics may, for the first time, truly experience death. For to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil as an individual instance is to surely see that such a thing will die.

The serpent is doubt, and the apple is knowledge of math, of discussing more or less, better or worse, not of things but of actions as relate one another.

We stepped out of the killing fields then, and into tilling fields!

But we saw the ugliness, too, and some of us decided they liked it more than they liked each other or even than they liked themselves.

And so we were no longer in the garden of darwinism, but we stepped into a different place a different idea where we must figure out for ourselves what is "right" in a world where individuals live and die holding perhaps more of "the truth" than our own DNA even with what 4 billion years may have accrued to it.

 

[Roma]

In Genesis, the serpent told the truth and God did not.

 

[Amur]

Actually it was the Divine plan to let mankind 'fall' in gaining knowledge of what is Good and Evil. That was what the fruit did, it opened their eyes to Good and Evil. So in a way we became better by having eaten of the fruit. But at the same time we became corrupted as not knowing through trial and error where we stand. If we hadn't eaten from the fruit we would've been like the animals and followed our instincts, would've been a totally different evolution for mankind.

 

[Roma]

That was what the fruit did,

You don't think that the fruit tree is an allegory?

 

[Amur]

You don't think that the fruit tree is an allegory?

Yes it is all a symbolic for something. If you understand hebrew and qabbalah you can deduce it from the Torah what it really means.

 

[Roma]

And Abraham was from Sumer, so there may be something in the Sumerian texts

 

[Amur]

And Abraham was from Sumer, so there may be something in the Sumerian texts

That picture you posted was very depicting of that event also, just noticed it later on when I watched it in more detail. What is the picture called? The seal of Ningishzida is also pretty interesting as Ningishzida means directly "Lord of the Good Tree" and is depicted as a double snake copulating with itself.

 

[Roma]

I found the image by searching: tree of life Sumer.

Notice that the astronauts (eagle men) have handbags for carrying the food of life and the water of life - gathered from the symbolic tree.

The Sumerian gods (Anunnaki) were dying on this planet under its aging sun, and went on strike so that Anu (The Most High) had to descend to Earth several times to negotiate a return to work. Part of the agreement was provision of the food/water of life to maintain immortality and the other major concession was the breeding of a slave human race to do the hard work.

Anu was known to the ancient Egyptians as An - the god of millions of years. An means heavenly so is not a personal name.

The god flying overhead, naturally has an all-seeing eye by virtue of being overhead. That image of a flying god appears in various cultures - even the English when Blake made his portrait of the Ancient of Days. Of course it is not the AoD but a much lesser god that needed a craft to travel

The energy lines from the overhead god also appear in Egyptian depictions of Ra, where the lines of light end in hands. That same Egyptian image appears in Australian Aboriginal sacred art.

 

[Bandaboy]

I'm rereading

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

(because I'm a firm believer that one can't retain all the important points of a book in the first reading...especially when one has ADHD). The author is (was?) a history teacher and had a vast background in religious history, so she often delves into all the ways the Catholic church coopted pagan traditions and temples to destroy the Old Religion and bring people to the church.

It reminded me that snakes, in many pagan traditions, represent wisdom and rebirth.

So.

Eating the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge was forbidden because Adam and Eve would gain knowledge. To the pagans they were trying to convert, the serpent represented wisdom, and wasn't considered evil. Seems to me the very first notable story in the Bible proves all on its own that Christianity was created to keep people stupid and under the thumb of those in control. Is it any wonder no one wanted to convert?

Well, it all depends on the 'Christianity' one got into and it doesn't only speak of Christianity, but every other religion and belief system. Scew it! Even some work environments too!

Any religion that causes people to join without having the ability or motive of imparting spiritual growth and gnosis to its neighbours is sadly an exercise in futility. In short, what I'm trying to say is you can have an understanding and experience from a physical perspective or from a spiritual one. Nonetheless, opinions are just opinions, red or blue?

 

[Jaide]

Well, it all depends on the 'Christianity' one got into and it doesn't only speak of Christianity, but every other religion and belief system. Scew it! Even some work environments too!

Any religion that causes people to join without having the ability or motive of imparting spiritual growth and gnosis to its neighbours is sadly an exercise in futility. In short, what I'm trying to say is you can have an understanding and experience from a physical perspective or from a spiritual one. Nonetheless, opinions are just opinions, red or blue?

Mmm every other Hebrew religion, maybe. Most pagan religions (and more specifically, witchcraft) encourage education and growth. Probably not quite as much in the early days, when we didn’t understand science as a species and were afraid of everything including our shadows, but definitely today.

 

[cryphius]

Eating the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge was forbidden because Adam and Eve would gain knowledge. To the pagans they were trying to convert, the serpent represented wisdom, and wasn't considered evil. Seems to me the very first notable story in the Bible proves all on its own that Christianity was created to keep people stupid and under the thumb of those in control. Is it any wonder no one wanted to convert?

Well, what you are describing - the Serpent in the Garden of Eden as a messenger of wisdom - is an old Gnostic belief that existed in the first few centuries of the Common Era. The Gnostics were of course considered heretics by mainline Christianity and wiped out.

As far as paganism, there's quite a few different cultural religions that fall under that umbrella, stretching over time and space. Not sure if an Egyptian pagan living in the first century CE would have the same take on things as a Norse pagan in the 10th century.

And I think it's important to point out some people did willingly convert to Christianity, whether for religious reasons or otherwise. As far as non-religious reasons to convert, the biggest one would be that Christianity made a point of almsgiving (giving to the poor). As the Roman Empire disintegrated, the Bishops of the Church and their almsgiving became a life line to the poor.

 

[Konsciencia]

I say, why look at the Koran or The Bible for answers? When the answers lies within.

On another note, I agree with Jaide when She said that some Christians force their kids to learn that, and only that. I feel so sorry for those Kids. I'm glad, I didn't grew up in a household like that.

To me the Serpent, represent Liberation from enslavement.

 

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

The serpent (EA) and the Tree (of Life) feature strongly in Sumerian writings

Abraham was from Sumer

Ur was a prominent city, and the only people who ever wrote or read were of the noble or priestly classes. Abraham was such a one. Same in the Egyptian culture, where M<oses and Jesus both journeyed to.

 

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

I'm rereading

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

(because I'm a firm believer that one can't retain all the important points of a book in the first reading...especially when one has ADHD). The author is (was?) a history teacher and had a vast background in religious history, so she often delves into all the ways the Catholic church coopted pagan traditions and temples to destroy the Old Religion and bring people to the church.

It reminded me that snakes, in many pagan traditions, represent wisdom and rebirth.

So.

Eating the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge was forbidden because Adam and Eve would gain knowledge. To the pagans they were trying to convert, the serpent represented wisdom, and wasn't considered evil. Seems to me the very first notable story in the Bible proves all on its own that Christianity was created to keep people stupid and under the thumb of those in control. Is it any wonder no one wanted to convert?

I find a huge cognitive dissonance in acceptance of Celtic beliefs from existing Christian beliefs. In Celtic folklore, dragons and serpents were esteemed for wisdom, yes.