What does it mean to be Human? And are we meddling with that?

[IllusiveOwl]

Wanna get a little philosophical. I've seen a lot of folk here talk about how omniscience or god-like powers would change you to the point of being a dehumanized piece of toast and I'm hoping to get a bit more specific.

What exactly defines us as human? Is it these ten-fingered vehicles we drive around? Is it our ignorance? Our unique past and identity? Our position on the ladder of life? Our desire to grow and change, or our short lifespan? If it's consciousness, than what makes our consciousness so special outside of the circuitry of our brains?

Say you were given Plato's ring that makes you invisible when you wear it, would having that power change your humanity? He argues it'd make a cunt out of you, but is a thug less human than an altruist? What about if you were bestowed a crown of omniscience, would knowing what everyone was doing at any given time make you less human somehow? Would seeing the past, present, and future at once make us jaded like the naked Dr.Manhatten? Didn't he become redeemed in the end and discover the whimsy of humanity at the end? Are God's more or less than human because of their power?

Does "human" even exist, or is it just an amalgam of the universal clay? Are humans inherently as aware as Gods?

As magicians and folk playing with unseen forces, we are explorers, experimenters, and evolving beings, so i think itd be nice to discuss and be thoughtful; it's good for the brain to be honest and exploratory in stating our beliefs and views of truth. Go ham

 

[Pyrokar]

Nice philosophy.

however, you genuinely enjoyed The Acolyte.

that means i win.

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humans are dumb little animals that spend most their existence in total illusion and hormone induced actions/reactions.

 

[Robert Ramsay]

In my opinion, (to paraphrase Goedel) humans are built to be complete and not consistent. We are possibility engines, attempting to encompass as many different outcomes as possible. Which, by definition, will also encompass all the stupid shit.

Magic is a way of generating possible outcomes that would not be available by 'normal' methods.

 

[Ziran]

@IllusiveOwl ,

"What does it mean to be Human?"

Humans are unique among all of creation because we can maximize, minimize, and escape ourselves adopting the qualities of all the others with only one exception. None of the other animals can do that. A dog will always be a dog and will relate to the circumstances it finds itself as a dog would. It's the same with a sheep, a goat, an ant, a sunflower, a venus fly-trap, Cedar, Birch, Maple, etc. Humans are fundamentally different because we are a microcosm which includes them all. And that is simultaneously a great opportunity, and a grave responsibility. Both a blessing and a curse to borrow biblical jargon.

Post automatically merged: Jul 22, 2024

Which, by definition, will also encompass all...

Yes!

 

[Mars]

What exactly defines us as human? Is it these ten-fingered vehicles we drive around? Is it our ignorance? Our unique past and identity? Our position on the ladder of life? Our desire to grow and change, or our short lifespan? If it's consciousness, than what makes our consciousness so special outside of the circuitry of our brains?

In hermeticism/ metaphysics/ vedanta:

Any uninitiated one is a human. Everyone still deceived by Maya and his or her material form.

And once you are initiated, the end is to be a God. Supra-Human. Supra denotes a gap, not an increase. The end is to be a supra individual. So not being Human at all. Being more than Human. (Plotinus)

Being Human is just that, in the next life you could be a Tiger or a being on a different planet than earth. You aren't solely restricted to this aggregate.

Are God's more or less than human because of their power?

Gods are immortal Humans, they are more than human.


Most of those supposed powers are a normal part of life, you just happen to become aware of it. If anything you learn more about people and "humanity". But your new behaviour will change making you estranged from them

 

[Taudefindi]

I've seen a lot of folk here talk about how omniscience or god-like powers would change you to the point of being a dehumanized piece of toast

I think it is a bit moot to talk about this since no one here will know if those will really change them that much until(and if) it really happens.

But I believe that rather than "god-like powers" changing a person, the person would already be changed by their search of it and getting those would just enhance their current personality.

It's a bit like suddenly getting into a lot of money and that making you want more and more, which would end up with you being willing to do "anything" to get it, like mudering someone or stealing big time.Events like those most likely show a person's real personality that was hidden behind fake plesantries and the fear of punishment for breaking the rules imposed by society.Once people get over those they'll be free to do whatever they want and that can also mean they can more easily become de-humanized because they don't care about what they have to do to get their desires.

What exactly defines us as human?

I think it's a bundle of characteristics rather than a single trait or event.

Say you were given Plato's ring that makes you invisible when you wear it, would having that power change your humanity?

It depends on who gets it and what they use it for.As an introvert I would probably use it to not be bothered by others as I normally don't really want to interact much with people.I can't say that I would never do something wrong with it though as despite having being raised properly by my parents, and developing my own code of morals, I know that deep down everyone can be tempted by anything.

No exceptions.

Are God's more or less than human because of their power?

While power sets them apart from mere mortals, their "humanity"(a characteristic that we ourselves gave them probably in order for us to feel closer to them) probably would have more to do about how close or how far they are from other sentient beings, rather than it being becuase of their powers themselves.

Are humans inherently as aware as Gods?

Are animals more aware than humans?I don't think this question has a definitive and set answer.

We are possibility engines

I liked that phrase.Gonna use it from now on.

 

[Xenophon]

Some have said that awareness of death sets humans apart from other creatures. To that might profitably be added a certain nostalgia for eternity.

 

[8Lou1]

What strikes me as most human is 'will to power' and we are always meddling with it.

 

[Aeternus]

What strikes me as most human is 'will to power' and we are always meddling with it.

Agreed. In almost every country in the world, there is a huge will to power that is always used for nefarious purposes.

I think it is very important that every type of power should be accessed both with caution and the more philosophical aspects of chastity, so as to not corrupt oneself and people.

And, after all:

"Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely" - John Acton, 1887

 

[loady]

In hermeticism/ metaphysics/ vedanta:

Any uninitiated one is a human. Everyone still deceived by Maya and his or her material form.

And once you are initiated, the end is to be a God. Supra-Human. Supra denotes a gap, not an increase. The end is to be a supra individual. So not being Human at all. Being more than Human. (Plotinus)

Being Human is just that, in the next life you could be a Tiger or a being on a different planet than earth. You aren't solely restricted to this aggregate.



Gods are immortal Humans, they are more than human.


Most of those supposed powers are a normal part of life, you just happen to become aware of it. If anything you learn more about people and "humanity". But your new behaviour will change making you estranged from them

Ar you sure you have a correct interpretation of vedanta and hermeticism , buddism etc.. maybe its meant to be symbolic , rudolph Steiner for example is of the opinion ( if am not mistaken) that some of our lower base instincts take on the form of animal shapes on the Astral plane , mainly p hall ( also if im not mistaken says that the soul is clothed with the energies of the Zodiac ( animal representations) and the planets im its gradual descent into a body . So maybe they meant an initiated man is ruled by the imperfections of nature whilst the initiated have United with whom they regard as as being god .

 

[IllusiveOwl]

It's become very common for me lately where the context of humanity, identity, inner dialogue, even of a body, vanish and there is just the pristine awareness. There isn't anything really... human about awareness when it's like that. It's just timeless now that is happening.

Just some late evening thoughts. Perhaps "human" is a safe, illusory little box we grow inside, something concrete, safe, reliable. Trouble is there'a plenty of reality out there that would drive people crazy if they tried to comprehend it unprepared, because they're so used to things being a certain way.

 

[Accipeveldare]

Wanna get a little philosophical. I've seen a lot of folk here talk about how omniscience or god-like powers would change you to the point of being a dehumanized piece of toast and I'm hoping to get a bit more specific.

What exactly defines us as human? Is it these ten-fingered vehicles we drive around? Is it our ignorance? Our unique past and identity? Our position on the ladder of life? Our desire to grow and change, or our short lifespan? If it's consciousness, than what makes our consciousness so special outside of the circuitry of our brains?

Say you were given Plato's ring that makes you invisible when you wear it, would having that power change your humanity? He argues it'd make a cunt out of you, but is a thug less human than an altruist? What about if you were bestowed a crown of omniscience, would knowing what everyone was doing at any given time make you less human somehow? Would seeing the past, present, and future at once make us jaded like the naked Dr.Manhatten? Didn't he become redeemed in the end and discover the whimsy of humanity at the end? Are God's more or less than human because of their power?

Does "human" even exist, or is it just an amalgam of the universal clay? Are humans inherently as aware as Gods?

As magicians and folk playing with unseen forces, we are explorers, experimenters, and evolving beings, so i think itd be nice to discuss and be thoughtful; it's good for the brain to be honest and exploratory in stating our beliefs and views of truth. Go ham

From my standpoint at this moment. Being human means we hold many universe-defining abilities. We possess many traits such as, self-awareness, peace, love, very flexible adaptability, violence, destruction, creativity, etc. Therefore, we pose a massive impact on the universe. We have the power to create and destroy anything and everything if left to our own devices. I believe our purpose as humans is to use this to reshape the cosmos one day.

 

[Jackson]

Humanity as understood here is the sense of subjective relation with the cosmos portrayed by most people in this thread.

I wasn't able to fully acquire it; et omnia vanitas. In fact, if I shout, perhaps the stars will respond. But they will pass away.

Knowledge and being might make a man or something higher, and will might make a mage; a human is a creature.

 

[Aeternus]

Humanity as understood here is the sense of subjective relation with the cosmos portrayed by most people in this thread.

I wasn't able to fully acquire it; et omnia vanitas. In fact, if I shout, perhaps the stars will respond. But they will pass away.

Knowledge and being might make a man or something higher, and will might make a mage; a human is a creature.

A creature with full potential you mean!

We humans possess a lot of magical abilities despite our "humble" nature. From the chakras to Kundalini, spirit communication, white magic, black magic, to even being able to talk to animals and spirits of the deceased.

Humans possess a lot of magical abilities.

Even animals are deemed as creatures based on a physiological classification, but that doesn't mean they don't have magical abilities. Cats are very intuitive for example and can heal certain psychological issues, while dogs have the innate magical ability to heal certain injuries or even sense diseases such as bone cancer.

The idea is to have faith in magic and that it is both innate and also successful for further learning and improvement.

 

[Jackson]

A creature with full potential you mean!

Hell no, I'd probably be mentally ill if I was particularly creative.

 

[Aeternus]

Hell no, I'd probably be mentally ill if I was particularly creative.

It's a sentiment that we all had in our beginning. Make your creativity beneficial for you, don't harm others and you will evolve in the future.