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What is the abyss? And what is it's purpose?

Accipeveldare

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In many Satanic scriptures I have read it mentions Lucifer creating Hell at the edge of the Abyss. What is this abyss? Is it nothingness? Chaos? Is it like a dimension in between dimensions? What is the purpose of such a place? And where did it come from?
 

Robert Ramsay

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Have you never been to Basingstoke?

Seriously though, is this the same Abyss that Crowley urges the magician to cross in the Chronzon rite? If so, that would kind of make sense.
 

Accipeveldare

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Have you never been to Basingstoke?

Seriously though, is this the same Abyss that Crowley urges the magician to cross in the Chronzon rite? If so, that would kind of make sense.
I'd need to look into that honestly. I've never read the Chronzon rite.
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I'd need to look into that honestly. I've never read the Chronzon rite.
However, I'm not a big fan of crowleys teachings due to the fact that he dabbled in hard drugs quite a bit and could have very well been delirious while writing a lot of his works
 

Robert Ramsay

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I'd need to look into that honestly. I've never read the Chronzon rite.
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However, I'm not a big fan of crowleys teachings due to the fact that he dabbled in hard drugs quite a bit and could have very well been delirious while writing a lot of his works
I would say that Crowley's drug taking is probably not the worst of his habits to put you off his teaching :)
 

Robert Ramsay

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To get back on topic, the Abyss is basically the original chaos/darkness that God created the World out of. To quote Seasick Steve: "I started off with nothing, and I've still got most of it left."
 

Accipeveldare

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To get back on topic, the Abyss is basically the original chaos/darkness that God created the World out of. To quote Seasick Steve: "I started off with nothing, and I've still got most of it left."
Makes sense. So I'm assuming that would mean there was more left over after he created the world and heaven.
 

Galahad

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Have you never been to Basingstoke?

Seriously though, is this the same Abyss that Crowley urges the magician to cross in the Chronzon rite? If so, that would kind of make sense.
Basingstoke is to Winchester as Doncaster is to York and Newcastle to Durham: There's an unwritten rule that England's beautiful medieval towns must be flanked by large nothingnesses so dark that light cannot escape their surface.

Crowley's Abyss is derived from apophatic theology: God dwells in darkness because nothing can be said about Him (Psalms 18:11). Penetrating that Darkness reveals the highest divine that can be conceptualised, Kether. It's a mirror of what happens above the Tree, what leads down to Kether.
In many Satanic scriptures I have read it mentions Lucifer creating Hell at the edge of the Abyss. What is this abyss? Is it nothingness? Chaos? Is it like a dimension in between dimensions? What is the purpose of such a place? And where did it come from?
A provocative esoteric reading could imply that Lucifer shapes a world for himself out of the material beneath the Abyss (ie: Chesed and lower). That would be in keeping with the Luciferian idea (from Paradise Lost) that the mind creates the world it lives in and that matter is valued above ethereal realities. However, if Lucifer is playing with the material created by God, this thought reveals that Lucifer is subordinate to God which is also in keeping with traditional theology. That might severely limit claims that Lucifer is a god himself.
 

Shade

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That might severely limit claims that Lucifer is a god himself.
Falls in line with the train of thought that Lucifer was known as the morning star, Jesus was known as the morning star, Satan is just “the adversary” Soo could be a title for either and Jesus was sent to fulfill the Torah so yhwh would stop straight up merking his followers.
Lucifer had to come in the form of man even though he was a god himself.
boom. Idk I may be reaching.
 

Pixi

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Interesting thoughts here. I've been working with the Qabalah this year going through the spheres with ritual and meditation comparing various teachers works except Crowley. Dion Fortune described it as the point of unity in which all knowledge is contained. And further that it contains the key to mans knowledge of himself. From the comments above if Lucifer creates this world do we come back to the fact that He has done so to provide man with entrance to a place where he can find the deeper knowledge of himself. I'm probably reaching here as well.
 

Shade

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Interesting further that it contains the key to mans knowledge of himself. From the comments above if Lucifer creates this world do we come back to the fact that He has done so to provide man with entrance to a place where he can find the deeper knowledge of himself. I'm probably reaching here as well.

Well Lucifer is known as the light bearer, if there is white radiant light up above, and a black abyss below, Lucifer came out of the white light and into a black abyss, he has to crawl his way back to the top and in between the color spectrum of black and white is a rainbow. That could be our dimension or where earth is.
 

IllusiveOwl

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From my understanding the abyss can be understood if you meditate on this:

You look at your hand under a microscope and you see... your hand. You zoom in and you see the wrinkles of your flesh. You zoom in and you see the cells that make up your flesh. Zoom in and you see the molecules that make up those cells (your hand is no longer even in the picture, it is as related to it as the earth is to a mule), further the atoms that make up those molecules (though you're seeing mostly empty space now as an atom is something like 90% emptiness for orbital paths like our solar system), then further you see an ocean of Quantum activity. A singular, fluctuating field where your hand is, though this field is indistinguishable from the rest of the field, ain't it? Just sit and try to think about your hand and this field at the same time.

From what I see crossing the abyss is the genuine transition from seeing things physically to seeing things spiritually. As mentioned above in Kabbalah God exists beyond our material conception and our worldly ideas, you must leave all of those behind and enter the unknown abyss, and understand just how problematic our sense of self hood really is.
 

Ziran

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What is the purpose of such a place?

Yeridah L'ma'an Aliyah - Descent for the sake of Ascent.

And where did it come from?

Ein-Sof
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From the comments above if Lucifer creates this world do we come back to the fact that He has done so to provide man with entrance to a place where he can find the deeper knowledge of himself. I'm probably reaching here as well.

... entrance to a place ...

Excellent choice of words.

The abyss is a gate.
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Dion Fortune described it as the point of unity in which all knowledge is contained. And further that it contains the key to mans knowledge of himself.

... a gate ... containing a key?

There's two pieces to the puzzle.
 
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Celestia

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My understanding is that the abyss or "the void" in general spirituality, esotericism, and occultism, is the empty place of darkness and suffering where "hell" really exists. Even mainstream Christians who get really serious about study will relent and admit that "hell" isn't a lake of fire, it's more of an empty place full of suffering. Which is interesting of them to say.

Outside of any one tradition, "the void" or the abyss is the darkest place one can be. It is synonymous with "hell". It is a place where "the Devil", Lucifer, Satan, and Saturn are active/rule over. And each of those entities have different roles.

What is its purpose?

The void exists to strip us of all that we know. The ego is a programmed shell that includes all kinds of humanly shenanigans that waste our time on earth, preventing us from getting anything really real done, preventing us from reaching the things we really, deeply desire. Keeping us chasing and engaging in the frivolous, the stuff that even we realize years later...was often a waste of time.

The void does us an enormous favor: it breaks open the ego, releasing the first leak of light inside, and then begins to wipe the ego away.

The void has an immensely important purpose: it is to transform us.

Avoid the abyss, pacify yourself, avoid your pain, and you delay the inevitable. End up old and disappointed, and bitter. Never utilizing your potential or developing it. Never facing your pain. Never facing the shadow.

The void forces you to face your shadow. If you're not willing to go down the waterslide, or jump off the diving board....well, there's a line behind you and time is limited. Saturn helps you out by taking you, the scared little child at the top of the slide, unwilling to go anywhere, wasting time....

And picks you up, you kicking and screaming, and throws you down. You have to get things going eventually.

And then, you've entered the void. If you won't do it willingly, higher powers of darkness (Saturn being the king of that) will give you the kick in the pants that has to happen. Because other people need to use the waterslide. :ROFLMAO: And your time is valuable here. Being the taskmaster of the material world, the king of all material, Saturn gave you all the high-end tools you needed, all material to be used for something. He sees you wasting time, and you're angering him.

Once you plunge into the cold abyss, you begin to feel all that is egoic being suffocatingly wiped out of you. All that makes your ego, or "you" (the lower you) feel good. Your achievements. Your perceived worth. Your identity. All that would build you up, is being broken down, to make you into "nothing". Because being broken down to nothing is where you can be finally liberated.

Resist the void long enough, perhaps you'll be thrown into it. Resist the void while inside it, pretend it isn't happening, and only more horrible things will happen. This is an incredible and horrifically harsh lesson in learning how to swim. After all, you have to get over your fears somehow, and you have to unlock your capabilities somehow. If you never have to use them, how will you ever develop or unveil them?

Could you imagine a bird too afraid to fly, that the mother refuses to push out of the nest? If she keeps her baby forever, it will become an unsightly situation. A sick one, actually. Something or someone has to force it out.

Those who misinterpret may see this action as "evil", calling the actor "Satan". Blaming it for all this harshness. It's easy to do so. Satan is an entity with a set of characteristics of his own, but I think this misinterpretation places all blame in the wrong place. Is someone evil for testing you? Or is it your time to be here and perform at this level, because time is going by and you need to get going? Saturn is also the master of time, which is not unlimited. We are very good at wasting our lives, and we don't respond very well to light. We respond much better to darkness. In a realm like the one we live in (arguably a lower one?), this seems to be an appropriate mechanism, while not fun to think about.

In the original Abrahamic religion, the character Satan is called "the adversary". "Sin" translates to "missing the mark". The adversary comes to wipe clean (painfully!) our illusions. Where we think we are great, where we believe we are awesome, but we really aren't! The adversary is the ultimate tester who unveils all that is bullshit. If you think you're the best swimmer and have the world's best skills, the truth will be revealed during a test. The adversary is not considered an "evil" character, but rather one with an important purpose. To test your Yetzer Hara, your inclination to do evil. For in fact you yourself are not evil, but only your actions and desires that harm yourself and others are. You could try to get out of being pushed down the slide. You could throw another kid in your place. Potentially an evil act.

Resisting the void does leave one to be tortured by "the Devil", which is more synonymous with the chains of Yetzer Hara. Failing the test, one suffers the trap of being caged by one's own doing. And yet, as also expressed in Judaism (and Gnostic Christianity), we all do this. We all fail. We all suffer. We keep getting kicked in the pants until we realize what we are doing to cause this to happen. Yes, other people and factors mess us up and hurt us, or even do horrible things. But do we have a savior who will float down and come fix it all for us? Should we hand it all off to an external power who will take care of everything while we just sit here? Are we animals, or children? Or are we something more? If you've never had to swim, or climb a mountain, you've never had to prove your ability.

This is my controversial opinion that is pertinent here: We are the only savior that can come for us. It could be individually, or collectively, but no one is appearing out of the ether to come fix all of our predicaments, hellish traps of this world, and our state of being. God, or Jesus, or whatehaveyou cannot move your arms for you and make you swim. You were given muscles, a body, enough health, enough ATP in your cells. Maybe the knowledge to know how to move to stay afloat.

To be thrown into the abyss makes one want to curse the one who did the throwing. But it is the only place where genuine transformation can occur. Inside one would face The Devil, Satan, Saturn, all the darkest forces. But how many of these forces exist within us? We were always capable of jumping off of the diving board and making ourselves swim. We just didn't believe we could.

To blame a force like "Satan", to curse "God", to wait for a savior to appear, only extends the hell of the void. It just continues And no transformation occurs. Only suffering. And time keeps passing.

The taskmaster sees it as unnacceptable to stay in the nest, growing to be an adult bird, while the mother still chews and vomits food into our mouths. We eventually need to face the harshest forces of this realm and life itself. Nature. Flying is hard. Water is cold. Living in the nest as an adult is not our best existence.

The void is a chance to harness all of the tools Saturn provided, and perform at the top level, through horrifics. Ideally, out to emerge through the other side. Comfort has no place here.

Nobody has ever walked straight into light. So many of the beliefs pervading the world today, whether it be Christianity, popular New-Age culture, or elsewhere, have this idea that we can just wake up, and walk straight into light just because we want to.

But the only way to reach light, is to traverse darkness. If we're not willing, and time is running out, Saturn will throw us in to get the process started.

Avoiding The Abyss is no gift. You could be complacent. Comfortable. But no mortal in the history of mortals has ever achieved anything great by simply sitting in the nest, never testing themselves or facing their worst and most awful, embarassing, and shameful weaknesses — The shadow itself.

Mainstream Christianity seems to believe hell is a curse, a permanent one. Isn't it just a necessary part of life (or even perhaps, multiple lives)? And wouldn't it be delusion to pretend we shouldn't walk right into it for all the right reasons?
 

motzfeldt

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Won't really be adding anything that hasn't already been covered in this thread so far but I might as well throw in my more succinct 2 cents. The abyss is Nothingness, Non-Being, the Non-Manifest, the absence of light, what the ancient Greeks called "primordial chaos", acausality in its abstract and incomprehensible "form". It's what "existed" before time and the cosmos ever existed and is where all things, even gods, will return to once they die. It is death.

Despite "being" "nothing", it is simultaneously everything, the well-spring of life, the realm of infinite possibilities, the original "source", the birthplace of God and the cosmos. Quite the paradox really. Of course, all these descriptions are so limited, it is impossible to describe the indescribable in simple causal and cosmic terms. Truly understanding the nature of the abyss and crossing it is the goal for many LHP adherents, myself included.
 

Pixi

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Well Lucifer is known as the light bearer, if there is white radiant light up above, and a black abyss below, Lucifer came out of the white light and into a black abyss, he has to crawl his way back to the top and in between the color spectrum of black and white is a rainbow. That could be our dimension or where earth is.
Like other Promethean types yes. In Traditional Witchcraft we speak of the folkloric devil as the "light between the horns" also meaning that he is a light bringer type. of course we are not meaning Lucifer here as that is a different being. Its just interesting that in almost all folkloric sources all around the world there is a light bringer and often an Abyss.
 

Accipeveldare

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Won't really be adding anything that hasn't already been covered in this thread so far but I might as well throw in my more succinct 2 cents. The abyss is Nothingness, Non-Being, the Non-Manifest, the absence of light, what the ancient Greeks called "primordial chaos", acausality in its abstract and incomprehensible "form". It's what "existed" before time and the cosmos ever existed and is where all things, even gods, will return to once they die. It is death.

Despite "being" "nothing", it is simultaneously everything, the well-spring of life, the realm of infinite possibilities, the original "source", the birthplace of God and the cosmos. Quite the paradox really. Of course, all these descriptions are so limited, it is impossible to describe the indescribable in simple causal and cosmic terms. Truly understanding the nature of the abyss and crossing it is the goal for many LHP adherents, myself included.
As a practitioner of vampirism. I choose to self deitify. Once i do i plan to visit many realms so perhaps one of them will also be The Abyss.
 

IllusiveOwl

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As a practitioner of vampirism. I choose to self deitify. Once i do i plan to visit many realms so perhaps one of them will also be The Abyss.
The abyss has nothing... so be sure to stop at a realm that has a Taco Bell first in case you get hungry there.
 

Shade

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Like other Promethean types yes. In Traditional Witchcraft we speak of the folkloric devil as the "light between the horns" also meaning that he is a light bringer type. of course we are not meaning Lucifer here as that is a different being. It’s just interesting that in almost all folkloric sources all around the world there is a light bringer and often an Abyss.
Yup, Prometheus and Zeus’ story is pretty identically to the relationship Jesus/Lucifer had with yhwh. And yhwh did the same thing to Satan as he did to Prometheus, used Bia to help bind them and cast him into a pit, in this case this world isn’t far from the pit and it’s connected by the inspiration that is able to be given to others while we temporarily dwell on this world, him crafting things from the material of earth is a good way to inspire others and thereby creating a state of being that helps us all temporarily escape this hell.
 
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