When to do banishing and when it is internal issue?

[Morell]

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This is great topic the guy covers. A lot of banishing and exorcisms are probably truly done without real need for them. In my opinion internal issue is the cause most of the time indeed. Spiritual presence has specific symptoms that you can safely feel, especially if you are more advanced. Last time I had a spirit visiting, The place I usually feel normal at, I felt afraid and uneasy without cause, but couldn't shake it of. Another confirming feeling was that after the ritual that removed the spirit the place (room) felt unusually empty. Similar to when person from family leaves you and then you feel place to be more empty than usual. Then it is spirit, but beyond that it's usually something internal.

What do you think? How can we recognize when it's time for spiritual "warfare" and when it is rather a case for introspection?

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A side note - his notion that our western world works on getting rid if unwanted things feels spot on.

 

[Mh4419]

Good points

1- you are more advanced.

2- It's usually something internal.

3- How can we recognize when it's time for spiritual "warfare" and when it is rather a case for introspection?


Cheers mate

 

[Morell]

Not sure I would call myself more advanced. I think of myself as pre-intermediate at best.

 

[Angelkesfarl]

Not sure I would call myself more advanced. I think of myself as pre-intermediate at best.

To protect yourself from evils every day in the morning and before sunset, recite the oath of protection from evils or a prayer using the names of the One and Only Lord. No spirit will dare enter your den to attack you. And if we assume that afterwards a rebellious, fierce spirit attacks you, fear and an inner emptiness of the heart will be the first evidence of that, as you said.

In this case, you must resort to a strong prayer and use salt, vinegar, and hyssop—or any strong sacred plant—to spray your place. If it is from a spirit, you will find peace immediately; but if its motive is internal from the human soul, the situation simply will not change. Here, I advise you to have a strengthening and uplifting drink, such as a decoction of marjoram, ginger, and cinnamon.

I am waiting for you to launch a war with me; frankly, Muriel, I love your wars as they push me to bring out the best I have. Thank you, my friend. Have a nice day. Now, have you sharpened your sword?

 

[iseht]

Its been my understanding that spiritual sensitivity is most noticeable when its presented in contrast. So by frequently banishing and establishing an empty presence, the reintroduction of an unwanted presence is more immediately apparent and is presented with less background noise. For this reason, I tend to side towards the banish often camp, although as one's sensitivity grows I can see value in banishing less and learning to more deeply investigate the felt sense of presence. I do think you are right to point out that reflexive banishing is not ideal, there is certainly a balance somewhere in here.

 

[Morell]

Agreed, banishing too often can cause problems on more ways, even when it is not coping mechanism. Not being around spirits can cause higher sensitivity, even hypersensitivity, possibly. Makes it the reason to do banishing when starting with the occult, actually. Now that is something interesting.

To protect yourself from evils every day in the morning and before sunset, recite the oath of protection from evils or a prayer using the names of the One and Only Lord. No spirit will dare enter your den to attack you. And if we assume that afterwards a rebellious, fierce spirit attacks you, fear and an inner emptiness of the heart will be the first evidence of that, as you said.

In this case, you must resort to a strong prayer and use salt, vinegar, and hyssop—or any strong sacred plant—to spray your place. If it is from a spirit, you will find peace immediately; but if its motive is internal from the human soul, the situation simply will not change. Here, I advise you to have a strengthening and uplifting drink, such as a decoction of marjoram, ginger, and cinnamon.

I am waiting for you to launch a war with me; frankly, Muriel, I love your wars as they push me to bring out the best I have. Thank you, my friend. Have a nice day. Now, have you sharpened your sword?

Thanks for your advices. Thankfuly I have no need of them. Spirits behave in my presence or simply stay away. The potergeist I was reffering to, wasn't annoying me for long. Once he dared to relocate something precious to me, I destroyed him vampiric way. It made me think about the irony of hard work. If it was sent by human, then the person spend many days forging this entity just for me to destroy it in few moments.

And no. No sharp blade for you today. Right now I feel way more enemity against the one responsible in DDoS attack against this site. May he rest in pieces.

 

[AlfrunGrima]

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This is great topic the guy covers. A lot of banishing and exorcisms are probably truly done without real need for them. In my opinion internal issue is the cause most of the time indeed. Spiritual presence has specific symptoms that you can safely feel, especially if you are more advanced. Last time I had a spirit visiting, The place I usually feel normal at, I felt afraid and uneasy without cause, but couldn't shake it of. Another confirming feeling was that after the ritual that removed the spirit the place (room) felt unusually empty. Similar to when person from family leaves you and then you feel place to be more empty than usual. Then it is spirit, but beyond that it's usually something internal.

What do you think? How can we recognize when it's time for spiritual "warfare" and when it is rather a case for introspection?

---
A side note - his notion that our western world works on getting rid if unwanted things feels spot on.

When it comes to my local witchcraft things, banishing is one of the last things I would do. There are a lot spirits here who even won't reacting if the practioner starts with a banishing. When I counter unwanted spirits I simply ignore them and if they want something from me, I face them and they have to negotiate with me. So I turn it the other way around. Did it scare me out? Yeah, sometimes. And sometimes unwanted spirits mirror things I really need, so ignoring them is not the complete answer........ it is not that I don't wear any projection. I another topic I described the process of making a Rowan necklace while making an ally with the Rowan tree. And sometimes I choose to wear a mojo bag. All ingredients have a long preparation process also.

In other rituals: I am not much of a fan of the word banishing. I still think that the word "alignment' for me better describes the process. I align myself to the process that will follow. That is more an internal thing and my observation is that I need it the most when I had a lot of activities in my life in which I have to be in larger groups of humans, in a busy social life.

 

[Robert Ramsay]

In other rituals: I am not much of a fan of the word banishing. I still think that the word "alignment' for me better describes the process.

This is a good idea. I think of it more as 'protection'. You are about to wrestle with the Universe, and you need to protect yourself from unforeseen consequences of that act, just as you would put on a hazmat suit to handle dangerous chemicals.
Engineering coincidences produces other coincidences, like ripples in a pond. You need to try and make sure that these other coincidences are not harmful to you.

 

[MorganBlack]

Morell, that video, so good! Thank you

Yep yep, no banishings for me either, not for many many years. Ahead of ritual work I will add an extra period gently seeking grace, love, focus, and personal coherence on top of my usual daily prayers, invocations, and meditations. A sort of mini Lent, and I think they were intended to be originally. Translate into your own mythic framework. It is all the One Thing, in many names, imho.

Speaking an half animist, half Neoplatonic framework here, and context matters... I am sorry we have to have these conversations but Western Mysticism is NOT Goetia / Necromancy. I know it is made to sound like this becasue of Wicca and the Golden Dawn, but they are not. Post Theosophy conflated them together, but historically they are different domains. They can work together - rather like training in your cardio system helps with lifting weights to not have heart attack while doing super heavy deadlifts. Demonlifts?

Totally agreed with Sephirah Shaman . The positive mind Metaphysics of New Thought (no daimons) , and other mystical paths like Kaballah are NOT Goetia / Necromancy, bur he does also usefully to it, by getting you Psyche / souls in shape, which I agree with. The daimons are at least always half you. So bring your best self.

Pardon the Cartesian metaphors here. The 100% conflation of the Above, Mysticism / Supralunar - and the Below Geotia / Sublunar made each worse for it. That said, the Western grimoire tradition seeks Subralunar authority to work with the lower through Love. Sorry if that is not obvious, but they were often so afraid of Hell and got so aggro, that Sephirah Shaman speaks to so beautifully. Very much a fan now.

To defend Goetia / Necromancy - while there is a subjective Neoplatonic aspect all events humans can experience , Goetia / necromancy is still an externalized practice. It is Mars/ Saturn /Underworld -encoded, and the practice is mostly to get thing done in the Sublunar world, and that world, our world, is all beneath the Moon. So if I want the corner office, the girl, I will have to take it away from all the other assholes who want them too. And to do that we have to step out of Divine Love for all things, at least little while, for the duration of the ritual, engage with the individualized sublunar world (or that we perceive it to be) and enter the hard, cold world of winner and losers, and demons.

 

[AlfrunGrima]

I am waiting for you to launch a war with me; frankly, Muriel, I love your wars as they push me to bring out the best I have. Thank you, my friend. Have a nice day. Now, have you sharpened your sword?

(O dear, are you both sharpening the swords and dueling? If you go over to the lounge to do so, I take chips, wine and popcorn to watch)

I like the idea of @MorganBlack of having a kind of mini-lent and gradually work to with focus, attention and building coherence. I use the art making for that process. Today I realized that the channeling of energy and attention there begins quite literally. If you watch my piles of pens very carefully you can see the first signs of alignment, not only in the art itself.

 

[Angelkesfarl]

o be blunt—there is no such thing as "spirits," at least not by my definition. In my tradition, and in reality, we deal with Fire, Light, and Earth.

What matters here is the Oath for the Genius Loci (Local Geniuses) that I provided in a previous post. It is the alpha and omega when it comes to banishing, summoning, or subjugating these entities; it is universal, effective in any location on this planet. Those who follow my work know that I am brutally sharp and uncompromising. I recognize nothing but the truth and I only apply what I have verified to be absolute.

You must understand that there are Jinn who are benevolent, Jinn who are malevolent, and Jinn who couldn't care less about your existence. What you in the West call "Parasites," we in the East call the "Spoilers of Magic" (Mufsidi al-Sihr). These are deceptive collectives that exist solely to trick you, steal your offerings, and sabotage your workings. These are the entities that the true masters urged us to banish, and believe me, they are not a minority.

They are powerful entities—cursed sorcerers, in fact. I have fought them myself in a brutal, all-out war. They possess the ability to reflect your own spells back at you or decimate your energy through calculated distraction. They are master manipulators, utterly cunning, and completely devoid of mercy. Banishing rituals do indeed crush them, and for protection, Solomon’s pentagons, hexagons, or even balanced Magic Squares are the ultimate defense.

However, if you find that your local Jinn neighbors are honorable or cooperative, you can certainly request their aid. They can introduce you to allies of unimaginable power. There are Genius Loci with specializations that have no equal. I personally experienced this when summoning an entity—a Native American—who taught me a stunning healing remedy for a specific ailment. The mixture worked exactly as described.

The "Other World" operates on reputation just as ours does. But be warned: as your name gains fame among them, "trolls" will inevitably arrive to test your mettle and attempt to defeat you. For them, it is the only entertainment they have.

 

[FireBorn]

I agree with this: "Our Western world works on getting rid of unwanted things." It’s spot on. We’ve built a whole culture around comfort. Anything uncomfortable, emotionally, physically, spiritually, we medicate, ignore, or throw it out.

But here’s the uncomfortable truth: magick doesn’t work like that. The occult is full of uncomfortable things. That’s where growth comes from. You want transformation? You don’t get it without pressure, heat, and yeah, pain.

If your path doesnt have pressure, challenge, pain, then its probably not real. Time to look in the mirror.

I know people who banish multiple times a day. Hear a bump? Banish. Dog farted? Banish. (Okay, maybe that one’s fair game lol) But seriously, not everything is out to get you. You're probably not that important. I am definitely not.

I only banish when I'm certain it's "other" uninvited and malevolent. How do I know it’s not just internal? For me, I feel the difference. Thoughts that aren't mine. Rage, hatred, intrusive emotional waves that don’t match the moment. Pressure shifts in the room. Sometimes I feel my fire flare in my chest or my ears ring like a siren.

But I don’t jump to spirit. I’m strict about this. Spiritual integrity matters so much to me. I don’t label something “spirit” just because I don’t have an explanation. I sit with it. I dig. I look for mundane causes first. Always.

Why? Because I’ve seen what happens when people stop doing that. They spiral into delusion. They start believing their own bullshit. Suddenly, they're the center of the universe and everything’s an attack. That’s not power. That’s ego and fear wearing an occult mask.

And fear? I don’t live in it. I don’t practice in fear. I don’t have wards and charms all over my land. I am the ward. I am the fire. That is sufficient.

Watch the next time you call a spirit. See if they show up dripping in charms and protective gear. They don’t. They show up in their current, raw and sovereign. That’s how I show up too. For the record, the only bad experiences I have ever had was from other humans. Other practitioners. (They know who they are.)

I don’t outsource my power to trinkets and systems that tell me I need to shield myself from every shadow. I didn’t come here to play religious 'good vs evil' games in occult robes. If others do, no judgement, but that's on them. That’s not my path. YMMV

 

[Morell]

Watch the next time you call a spirit. See if they show up dripping in charms and protective gear. They don’t. They show up in their current, raw and sovereign. That’s how I show up too. For the record, the only bad experiences I have ever had was from other humans. Other practitioners. (They know who they are.)

I agree. Most of the time the source of our issues are humans.

 

[FireBorn]

I agree. Most of the time the source of our issues are humans.

Or our internal, unresolved traumas masking themselves as spirit so we can keep pretending. Ha! Sounds like an invitation to the Abyss. But then again, what do I know? I could be wrong.